Please help ! I'm Trying to understand the best way to re-mineralizing RO water for fish, shrimp, and plants.

[KittenFishMom]

The current set up:

1) Tank 1

a)       I have a 10 gallon tank with nocardia dream blue shrimp, peppered cory fry, java moss, and a bunch of snails.

b)      I have been re-mineralizing the RO water with Salty Shrimp HG/KH+ and 1 part Seachem Acid buffer to 2 parts Seachem Alkaline buffer. (Mixing 10 litters at a time)

c)       I want to add more shrimp and more plants to this tank.

2) Tank 2

a)       I have a 55 gallon tank with adult peppered corys, Kuhli loaches, neon tetras, and 1 male beta, and a lot of snails, including ramshorn, bladder and mystery snails. I have a jungle of plants that are gr owing very well.

b)      I have been re-mineralizing the RO water with Seachem Equilibrium and 1 part acid buffer to 2 parts alkaline buffer.  (Mixing 5 or 10 gallons at a time)

c)       I want to add shrimp to this tank.

Should I be using a mix of the HG/KH+ and the Equilibrium in both tanks? If so, how do I figure out how much of each to use in how much water?

I really want the snails in tank 2 to get enough calcium, but if I add shrimp, I don’t want them to get too much.

I was breeding the 3 hi-fin corys in tank 1, but got ammonia spikes so I moves the adults back to tank 2 and used Stability and Complete and bio-balls floating on top to get the tank back in cycle again.

Note: Both tanks have organic potting soil capped with large black sand and a lot of wood and IALs. As a result of the wood and leaves, the pH drops rather quickly over time.

I look forward to all input

Thanks !

[nabokovfan87]

 

I don't think you need to use both equilibrium and GH/KH+.  If you were using equilibrium and KH+ only that might be useful, but both equilibrium and GH/KH would impact your GH. This might not be a bad thing, but just something to note.

[jwcarlson]

What's going on with your water that's making you use RO?  Just curious.  I'm using an RO mix (RO + tap water to hit about 60-80 TDS) and it's kind of a pain, but I don't think apistos will breed in my straight tap water.

[KittenFishMom]

@jwcarlson I could tells you tales for hours about the well that came with this cottage we bought 5 years ago, but I will cut to the chase. Our well water has high ammonia, off the scale Mg, no Ca, a good bit of coliform and e coli (We have shocked it many times, many ways), sludge that messes with the UV and mechanical filter. It often smells of sulfur because of the iron bacteria.  Water hardness is normally the sum of Ca and Mg, so we have been told our water is completely soft as well as off the scales hard, depend if they only test for calcium or if they test for both or only Mg. Sometimes after hard or long rains, the well will get murky. One time when I used the water in the tanks when the well was murky, it contained some kind of fungus or slime mold that clogged and blocked my sponge filter, killing my cycle. We have dug up the well to get it "fixed" so many times, I could find the well for you in the dark with my eyes closed. 

We got an RO system and now we have to put the right mix of minerals back in the water for the aquariums. I do not want to double dose the water. I keep an eye on the water level and refill to pre-evaporation level with un-treated RO water between and before water changes. Then, after we take water out, we refill to the right level with treated (re-mineralized) RO water.

I keep seeing shrimp in tanks with fish and snails and live plants on the forum.  I can get 30 blue dream shrimp for $35 15 minutes drive from here from a private breeder. My shrimp breeder says we can have any color we want as long as it is blue. (Ford said you could have a car any color you wanted, as long as it was black ((Black paint was the only one that dried fast enough for the assembly lines)) 

With such a nice price, I would like shrimp in both tanks.  I know that you have to doctor RO water, and if you do it wrong, it is hard on the live stock.

If you want more info on the well and all the different folks that have worked on it. Just let me know.

 

[KittenFishMom]

I forgot to say that our RO system is an RO/DI system. The water comes out of the RO/DI system at 0 TDS . The water goes through the mechanical filter and the UV filter before the RO/DI system

@nabokovfan87 I could easily be mixed up, but I think the GH+ is for the bigger size shrimp, and the GH/KH+ is for the smaller, neocardina shrimp. I only started keeping shrimp around New Years. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 2/11/2023 at 7:39 PM, KittenFishMom said:

@nabokovfan87 I could easily be mixed up, but I think the GH+ is for the bigger size shrimp, and the GH/KH+ is for the smaller, neocardina shrimp. I only started keeping shrimp around New Years. 

GH/KH+ = Neo shrimp
KH+ = Taiwan Bee or Caridina shrimp
Equilibrium = generic fish use to raise GH
Alkalinity buffer (seachem) = raise KH
Crushed Coral = raise KH

Edited February 12, 2023 by nabokovfan87

[KittenFishMom]

@nabokovfan87 of course I just ordered a larger jar of GH/KH+. Oh well.  I thought Equilibrium was more for the plants in the tank than for the fish in the tank. I have both, so it works either way. I know Crushed coral raises pH and Calcium. I didn't know it did KH too.  My pH is always dropping. I'm hoping uses both buffers will slow the swing downward. I don't want the pH to change suddenly.

[nabokovfan87]

On 2/11/2023 at 8:03 PM, KittenFishMom said:

@nabokovfan87 of course I just ordered a larger jar of GH/KH+. Oh well.  I thought Equilibrium was more for the plants in the tank than for the fish in the tank. I have both, so it works either way. I know Crushed coral raises pH and Calcium. I didn't know it did KH too.  My pH is always dropping. I'm hoping uses both buffers will slow the swing downward. I don't want the pH to change suddenly.

I would start here....

You'd want to keep in mind for basically everything, the relationship between KH and PH, keeping those where you wish, and then setting GH where it makes sense.

Say you raise KH and PH goes too high, you can use something like Seachem Acid buffer to drop PH.  It's a real chemistry mess trying to buffer things and do it consistently, so that's why I'd highly recommend starting with those MST videos.  He's got a good method and makes it easy to understand as long as you understand how KH, GH, and PH interact.

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/ph-gh-kh

[KittenFishMom]

@nabokovfan87 I'll watch the videos again. I don't think he has anywhere near as much wood and potting soil in his tanks compared to mine. I remember how buffers work from chemistry, but it was too many decades ago to remember how to set them up. I might call SeaChem on Monday.

@jwcarlson When I called SeaChem after testing my well water with all the API tests out there. After hearing the results, the person from SeaChem said "You don't have any fish living in that water, do you?". I said "well yes, I do." 

[nabokovfan87]

@KittenFishMomttake stock of everything, use AQ advisor and all that if it helps and makes it easy.

Are all of your tanks functional with the same KH/GH or do you need something specific for anything in particular?

Secondly, in terms oof the shrimp and your dosing on GH/KH, what is the ratio on that? What I mean is.... Does using that product make the KH/GH equal or is the GH raised more easily? I would lean towards wanting GH to be 1.5-3x your KH.

[jwcarlson]

On 2/11/2023 at 10:29 PM, KittenFishMom said:

@jwcarlson When I called SeaChem after testing my well water with all the API tests out there. After hearing the results, the person from SeaChem said "You don't have any fish living in that water, do you?". I said "well yes, I do." 

😞

I actually think I remember some time ago some of your other posts.  I don't envy your situation.  I've made like 100 gallons of RO and it's kind of a pain in the rump.  Having to do it for all my tanks would basically be untenable.  I don't have any tips or anything, I hope you can get something to work for you!

[KittenFishMom]

@nabokovfan87 I'm falling asleep. I'll sort it all out in the morning and get back to you.

[KittenFishMom]

@jwcarlson I would trade all my tanks for a dog, but my husband says we have too much on our plate to add a dog to the family right now, so I am trying to get the tanks to work. I have been waiting 4 years to get a dog. We didn't think we should get one while we were Mom primary caregivers. Hopeful in a few more months things will get improve. 

Thanks for all the help and support.

[Mmiller2001]

The easiest way is to buy CaSO4, MgSO4 and potassium carbonate. Then use rotalabutterfly to make the calculations. Super cheap and so easy. Might cost 25 bucks and will last 2 years.

[KittenFishMom]

@Mmiller2001 This sounds like the way to go, but I'm stumbling a bit as I feel my way along here.

I'm looking at the Nutrient Dosing Calculator v1.5.91.

My tanks are 55 gallons and 10 gallons

I assume I'm using DIY fertilizer.

It gives me 5 options for the 4 compounds you listed:  CaSO4.1/2H2O, CaSO4.2H2O, MgSO4.7H20, and K2CO3. My chemistry is rusty. Which would I use I use for CaSO4?

It wants to know what I am calculating for.   I'm guessing "Dose to reach a target"? Is that right?

Now the big question (drum roll please)  How I do I figure out the right target for a planted tank with my fish, snails, and shrimp for these 4 compounds for water changes?

Also, where would you recommend I get the raw compounds? Cornell's Chem stock room use to sell supplies for cash, but now it all needs to be department charges.

Thanks so much !!!!!

 

 

 

[KittenFishMom]

P.S. my fish are 1 male betta, 9 neon tetras, 5 black kuhli loaches and around 11 peppered corys. my snail include bladder, ramshorn, mystery and some nerite snails. and 40-50 blue dream neocaridia shrimp, and an uncounted number of small cory fry. I have lots of different kinds of plants. most from ACO, some from the lake, and a few from eBay. I don't know the names.

 

[Mmiller2001]

On 2/12/2023 at 8:27 PM, KittenFishMom said:

Which would I use I use for CaSO4?

Whichever one you want to buy, they will be on the package. Usually it's the .2H2O.

 

On 2/12/2023 at 8:27 PM, KittenFishMom said:

It wants to know what I am calculating for.   I'm guessing "Dose to reach a target"? Is that right?

Correct, but the others are useful too. I use result of my dose when I'm lazy and just want to use teaspoons to measure.

 

On 2/12/2023 at 8:27 PM, KittenFishMom said:

How I do I figure out the right target for a planted tank with my fish, snails, and shrimp for these 4 compounds for water changes?

Just through researching. When I look at fish, I only buy those that will thrive in parameters I want my tanks to be. So for me, plants are my priority and fish are second. Plants like soft water and low pH. To achieve low pH I will run 0dKH. Recently though, I am trying 2dKH and till hit a 6.1 pH. So I'm happy there because I no longer have to dose Potassium as all the potassium I need is in K2CO3. I use to hit 4.9 pH. Crazy right? Plants loved it and my soft water fish loved it too. But then I bought rainbows and raised the GH to 5.1dGH.

Going back to plants, they love soft water and anywhere from 2 to 5dGH should be fine. I would go 5dGH if you are worried about your Neo's, but after a few generation, they don't care. If you are going to do Caradina, I would just not add any KH. But be mindful of your other live stock. Find a happy medium and all will be well. When dosing for GH, you will run a ratio of Ca:Mg. When you calculate, you run each compound and record the dGH for each. then add them together. You can use 2:1, 3:1 or 4:1 (or something else, but the big boys agree these are ratios work well). I'm running 3:1 now and didn't like 2:1 at all. 3:1 was my sweet spot but on my current project, this might change. Now the calculator will tell you the degrees, but works with ppm. You will just plug in some number (in whatever ratio you pick) and add the degrees for your total GH. So pick easy numbers. Let's choose 21 and 7. Why? That's a 3:1 ratio. Could be wrong, I'm not that smart. I would dose to reach a target, use Caso4.2H2O, and put 21 for ppm. This spits out how many grams, teaspoons ect and lists the degrees GH for 21ppm. Same for Mg, put in dose to reach a target and so on. Then just add those degrees together for your total. Let's assume that total is like 5.2dGH, so you have a 3:1 Ca:mg ratio at 5.2dGH. Works the same if you want to buy nutrients as well. I dose all my tanks dry NPK and Traces. It's so easy and beyong cheap. I can make hundreds of bottles of Easy Green if I wanted too with just one package. And I have the added benefit of being able to manipulate each element as I choose without being locked in to an all in one fertilizer.

I use Green Leaf Aquariums for the powders and bought food grade potassium carbonate off of Amazon.

Potassium Carbonate

Magnesium  But you can use plain old Epsom Salts, same stuff and even cheaper.

Calcium

For my water changes, I fill large Brute grey trashcans with RO and dose everything into them. I know exact gallons so I record my numbers and stick it on my fridge. I also dose my NPK (K2CO3) into them. So no matter how much water I change, the tank always stays at my chosen numbers. No guessing, no headache, easy peasy. I dose  Micros 3 times a weak and just pour the powder right into the tank with small measure teaspoons.

 

[KittenFishMom]

@Mmiller2001 Thanks for all this great info. I'm falling asleep and will read it over again in the morning and  Start doing research. Thanks so much !!