Ich-X is not safe with Fritz Complete Water Conditioner!?!

[ELR]

I've been treating my fish with Ich-X as part of the Aquarium Coop quarantine recommendations and for a recent ich outbreak. But just now I read that Ich-X should not be used with sulfur-containing water conditioners. 

from HIkari website: https://www.hikariusa.com/water_quality_folder/ich_x.html (under Directions)

"NOTE: We do not recommend using any sulfur or sulfinite-based water conditioners with this product. If your normal water conditioner does not list the ingredients please verify with the maker that it does not contain these ingredients. If you notice any rotten egg smell to the product, it likely does have these ingredients and should be avoided as it could cause the product to be less effective and the dissolved oxygen levels to be negatively impacted."

from Fritz website: https://fritzaquatics.com/products/fritz-complete (under FAQ's)

"Can I use this with Aquarium Solutions Ich-X?  Fritz Complete - NOT SAFE; this is a sulfoxylate-based conditioner and can affect the medication"

Yikes! I've been struggling with ich on my shubunkin for a couple months and I've been using Fritz Complete for longer than that. Does anyone else have any info on using Ich-X with Fritz Complete? Or alternatives that don't have sulfur?

[Mitch_ScruffyCityAquatics]

I’ve never had issues using it with Prime, but I think people say it isn’t safe either. 
 

I think the same company that makes Ich-x makes Ultimate and they recommend it. 
 

When I researched Ich-x I found that Prime’s sulfur salt wasn’t the same thing as the ingredient ich-x warned about. Both companies say they cannot say because they can’t guarantee the others ingredients haven’t/won’t change. I haven’t noticed an issue, but do your research. 

[Cory]

After 12 years of use I’ve never noticed an interaction with prime. After 2 with fritz complete I’ve never noticed a reaction. 

[Mitch_ScruffyCityAquatics]

1 hour ago, Cory said:

After 12 years of use I’ve never noticed an interaction with prime. After 2 with fritz complete I’ve never noticed a reaction. 

I wanted to say that Cory would say this, but I figured he would do it himself. Haha. 

[varanidguy]

I quarantine fish and utilize Ich-X (thank you Cory) as part of my medication routine. I use Seachem Safe for dechlorination and have never had a problem.

[Paul]

I've used Prime with Super Ich Cure and Ich X with no problems.

 

[FrostiesFishes]

Safe IMO is the best bang for your buck.

[myrainbow2u]

Hi, what’s safe imo? 

Edited October 22, 2021 by myrainbow2u

[Wingman12r]

On 10/21/2021 at 8:42 PM, myrainbow2u said:

Hi, what’s safe imo? 

Seachem Safe is a powder form of the water conditioner prime.

[Shaun4BigBlocks]

"Seachem Safe is a powder form of the water conditioner prime."  Actually no, it is not- though it is very similar.  Seachem Prime has additional additives to detoxify heavy metals and promote a healthier slime coat. 

In my opinion, promoting a healthy slime coat is less of a concern because your fish should be more than capable of doing that on their own seeing as though you monitor levels and keep your bio in check.  Detoxifying heavy metals, on the other hand, is more of an important issue.  If one chooses to switch from Prime to Safe I would highly recommend adding an additional heavy metal detoxifier to their water change cocktail.  I have used Prime for so many years (back when it was pretty much the only trustworthy, simple, affordable bulk solution available) that i really have not thought about conditioners much in a while.  I believe Chris exclusively uses Prime, but if Chris or any experienced long-term Safe users would chime in on their cost effective bulk heavy metal detoxifier product of choice I would appreciate it. 

Fast forward too today and I am on day 6 of Ick-X and I am having no success with my current Ick outbreak.  This is my first time actually chemically treating for ick as I have traditionally in the past always just slowly raised my water temp and used good old heat to kill off the Ick.  I currently have some fish that are heat sensitive, so I chose not to go that route.  Assuming from this forum that I was good to go with a Prime/Ick-X combination (local municipal water supplier additives vary) I wasn't prepared for a plan B.  As much as I hate to promote this company, Imagitarium  Water Conditioner is currently my only "ASAP" off the shelf choice (I won't state the rather repulsive parent companies name) for a sodium thiosulphate alternative.  I will keep my results posted and if I do not see a visual change in a few days I will order some Fritz.

 

[HH Morant]

On 1/24/2022 at 2:33 PM, Shaun4BigBlocks said:

Detoxifying heavy metals, on the other hand, is more of an important issue.  If one chooses to switch from Prime to Safe I would highly recommend adding an additional heavy metal detoxifier to their water change cocktail. 

 

I have never used a heavy metals detoxifier. I have never tested my tap water for heavy metals. I have never heard of heavy metals in tap water killing any fish. Ever.

Is this a thing?

[Mydonkeyfish]

I do this all the time and think you should be good.

[Pickadifferentname]

On 1/24/2022 at 3:33 PM, Shaun4BigBlocks said:

"Seachem Safe is a powder form of the water conditioner prime."  Actually no, it is not- though it is very similar.  Seachem Prime has additional additives to detoxify heavy metals and promote a healthier slime coat. 

In my opinion, promoting a healthy slime coat is less of a concern because your fish should be more than capable of doing that on their own seeing as though you monitor levels and keep your bio in check.  Detoxifying heavy metals, on the other hand, is more of an important issue.  If one chooses to switch from Prime to Safe I would highly recommend adding an additional heavy metal detoxifier to their water change cocktail.  I have used Prime for so many years (back when it was pretty much the only trustworthy, simple, affordable bulk solution available) that i really have not thought about conditioners much in a while.  I believe Chris exclusively uses Prime, but if Chris or any experienced long-term Safe users would chime in on their cost effective bulk heavy metal detoxifier product of choice I would appreciate it. 

Fast forward too today and I am on day 6 of Ick-X and I am having no success with my current Ick outbreak.  This is my first time actually chemically treating for ick as I have traditionally in the past always just slowly raised my water temp and used good old heat to kill off the Ick.  I currently have some fish that are heat sensitive, so I chose not to go that route.  Assuming from this forum that I was good to go with a Prime/Ick-X combination (local municipal water supplier additives vary) I wasn't prepared for a plan B.  As much as I hate to promote this company, Imagitarium  Water Conditioner is currently my only "ASAP" off the shelf choice (I won't state the rather repulsive parent companies name) for a sodium thiosulphate alternative.  I will keep my results posted and if I do not see a visual change in a few days I will order some Fritz.

 

Hi Shaun. I am starting my first ever Ich-X treatment today and wondering how yours went? I have Prime on hand but I’m wondering if I should go purchase the Imagitarium Water Conditioner. I have pretty limited options available locally. I’ve read the API Tap Water Conditioner is an option but it seems to contain sulfates too. I would greatly appreciate any insight.

[Cory]

Prime will work just fine with Ich X. Also your name was inappropriate. You'll need to pick a new one.

[Pickadifferentname]

On 3/22/2022 at 2:34 PM, Cory said:

Prime will work just fine with Ich X. Also your name was inappropriate. You'll need to pick a new one.

Hi Cory, my legal first name is Violence. That’s always been my screen name but I’m fine with switching to first/last.

[Wrencher_Scott]

On 1/24/2022 at 2:31 PM, HH Morant said:

I have never used a heavy metals detoxifier. I have never tested my tap water for heavy metals. I have never heard of heavy metals in tap water killing any fish. Ever.

Is this a thing?

No, I don't believe it is. 👍

[Colu]

On 3/24/2022 at 2:54 AM, Wrencher_Scott said:

No, I don't believe it is. 👍

It depends were your water comes from  theirs always the possibility of lead  copper or other metals in your tap water so I always air on the side of caution and use prime when doing water changes

[Wrencher_Scott]

On 3/23/2022 at 8:03 PM, Colu said:

It depends were your water comes from  theirs always the possibility of lead  copper or other metals in your tap water so I always air on the side of caution and use prime when doing water changes

What I meant was, I believe I have read that metals in water do not harm fish. 

That and don't believe everything you read from Seachem. 😉

[Shaun4BigBlocks]

On 3/22/2022 at 12:55 PM, Pickadifferentname said:

Hi Shaun. I am starting my first ever Ich-X treatment today and wondering how yours went? I have Prime on hand but I’m wondering if I should go purchase the Imagitarium Water Conditioner. I have pretty limited options available locally. I’ve read the API Tap Water Conditioner is an option but it seems to contain sulfates too. I would greatly appreciate any insight.

To "Viol" or pick another name... sorry for the late reply- my notification got buried in my email and I stay pretty busy...  My response is probably too late to help you, but it may help others…  Yes, the Imagitarium Water Conditioner ended up doing the trick for me.  It took about 2 days to see results, which could either have been because it just took that long OR because 48 hours is ironically about how long it takes Prime's sulfates to dissolve.  You choose…

 

As you probably know, the general rule of thumb is to always have a bottle or two of Ick-X on hand.  I did, but at the time couldn’t find it.  I usually go with slowly raising the water temperature to 86° to use heat to kill the ick, but I normally do that in a hospital tank: my hospital tank got converted into a home for the Dekay’s Brownsnake my son found (that I failed to replace) and raising the temps in the 55g was not an option as I had some temperature sensitive fish in the tank.  I eventually found where my old unopened ICK-X bottle (from Corey) was hiding but unfortunately many days after the fact.

 

So, my ick had got pretty out of control.  By the time I had received the Ick-X from Corey, the ick had already spread pretty rampantly.  In “MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE” the Ick-X coupled with Prime had absolutely no effect on the ick, and after numerous days of that I decided to give the Imagitarium a try and it worked wonders.  Like I said, nothing for about the first two days of Imagitarium treatment and then once there was a noticeable improvement it like bam the ick was almost all gone in just a couple more days.  I did have my water at about 80° to accelerate the Ick’s life cycle process.  I lost all of my newly purchased ick infested guppies, but none of my original fish.

 

So my recommendation for anyone reading this is to make sure you have a bottle of Ick-X on hand while also knowing where you put it 😉 and have a bottle of Imagitarium on hand if you know that your local supply shop does not stock it (or any other thiosulfate based conditioner) such as “Fritz Guard” or “Fritz Concentrated Chlorine Remover”) so that you do not possibly find yourself in my situation.  Granted, I have not personally tried Fritz, but since it is thiosulfate based like the Imagitarium I would bet money that you would have similar results if not better since there is a good possibility that Fritz uses a better concentration of active ingredients.

 

I just want to reiterate that I am not endorsing Imagitarium or Fritz nor do I have any financial gain to be had by said products- I am just trying to provide my sincere results for anyone else who finds themselves in my “icky” situation.  There are general Ick rules of thumb, but it reality it all comes down to the specific strand of Ick that you have.  For example, I have had success with heat for over 30 years, and even after others started saying that new strands of Ick are resilient to heat it still worked fine for me.  That does not mean that I am wrong and that does not mean that they are wrong… it really just depends on your situation.  Go with what appears to be the best overall treatment option based on the popular group’s consensus and if after four days you see know signs of improvement start entertaining other options.

 

As soon as I knew the Ick cleared up and stayed clear for a few days I immediately went back to Seachem Prime as almost any other water conditioner would require me to mortgage Boardwalk and sell Park Place in effort to keep treating all of my tanks.

 

Viol, again I am sorry I never followed up to my own problem.  I feared repercussions because my personal results did not align with the status quo.  As you have probably witnessed for the last few years civilization has been increasingly entertaining “cancel culture” where many times opposing ideology can get you band.  We are starting to live in a world where we are not allowed to disagree.  I am a member of over 50 forums, and prior to the forum infrastructure taking over (Yahoo Groups, AOL Groups, Compuserve Groups, Prodigy Groups, BBS’s and so on.)  It used to be like the wild-wild west- people had democracy style freedom of speech vs republic style freedom of speech.  Do not get me wrong, I think many aspects of forum administration are for the better, but I question the aspects that are more agenda structured for profit.  Back in the day, groups and BBS’s were purely hobbyists.  Nowadays forums are created by special interest and often their owners and administrators are “vendors” more worried about how written content affects profit vs. genuine real world results.  To add injury to insult many of these forums are getting conglomerated by large organizations paying marketing professionals to steer conversations towards the most profitable sales as often as possible. 

 

When administrators with vendor based interests on another forum found that I was showing how to adapt 1.25 ton drum brakes with a proper working parking brake from junk yard parts I got banned, probably because they wanted to keep selling ½ ton disk brake conversions for 800 bucks that lacked a quality parking brake.

 

When I posted to Dell’s forum how to make I3 processor based Inspiron’s accept I7 based processors I was warned and told that what I said was not officially supported by Dell.  When I re-posted with a disclosure that what I was explaining did not align with Dell’s official supported recommendations and to “Do at Your Own Risk,” I was banned- regardless of all the pictures and temperature values (citing.)  I just wanted to help people upgrade their computers to keep them relevant longer, I think Dell may prefer to sell new computers, especially since all those moderators thought nothing of telling members “You cannot do it, you have to buy a new computer” while recommending units sold by their company.

 

So my advice for you, you a person who was told you could not use your legal first name in effort to please overly sensitive people while simultaneously not pleasing yourself, is to be very vigilant on forums, know who the “click” is and who, if anyone, benefits financially from any of the advice given…

 

Corey is generally good people, but he is also a salesman who has to put food on the table…

[Shaun4BigBlocks]

On 1/24/2022 at 4:31 PM, HH Morant said:

I have never used a heavy metals detoxifier. I have never tested my tap water for heavy metals. I have never heard of heavy metals in tap water killing any fish. Ever.

Is this a thing?

Tetra used to sell something years ago, I think it may have actually been called “Heavy Metal Neutralizer,” but I cannot remember.  I remember a yellow bottle.  I used it in my early days and then kind of faded it out of my routine, probably because of money back then.  Personally, I do not believe it can neutralize heavy metals, but possibly it can coat them similar to what prime does with ammonia… unless if you actually want to believe that Prime neutralizes ammonia… which I guess if the word “temporary” was thrown in there may be a more correct statement.

 

Copper is one of the bigger concerns.  TMI for you- the EPA not to recently banned copper from brake pads and shoes as the dust particulates eventually make their way into aquatic water ways.  They now use stainless steel.  Ever noticed that the newer brake pads/shoes started saying “Now with a stronger stopping formula?”  What they didn’t tell you was that the SS is not as soft as copper and that is does not loose heat as quick as copper and that your rotors and shoes will warp and wear much faster with the newer bindings.

 

So, yeah, there are people out there who believe that certain metals are not fish friendly and even though it has been years since I had a planted tank I remember many, many, many years ago having to be mindful of what metals one would use to anchor plants.  My theory is that decent quality municipal water should have the PPM low enough not to worry...

Edited April 11, 2022 by Shaun4BigBlocks

[Cdubs231]

I have a pretty bad case of Ich in my aquarium currently. I ordered some Electric Blue Acara and Angel Fish from Imperial Tropicals and for about a week everything seemed fine. I introduced them into a 29 gallon I had been housing a small school of Neon tetras for about a week or so prior. Up until I saw the instructions on ICH-X, I hadn't given any real consideration to what type of water conditioner. I have on hand Fritz Complete, SeaChem Prime, and a bottle of Aqueon water conditioner. I was staying with the Complete until the outbreak. I have done a 1/3 water change today and conditioned the water with the Aqueon stuff which according to the bottle consists of Thiosulfate EDTA and a couple other things. I have only dosed the ICH-X once yesterday, but I am going to heed the warning and try just using the Aqueon stuff for now, as I can't see any real difference in the magnitude of white spots at this point, (and I have been treating them since monday, starting with Super Ick Cure from API, changing out the water yesterday to try the ICH-X.) I have to say, these fish don't seem to be behaving differently AT ALL. Its as if they don't really mind it, but I have taken all the steps necessary to ensure they can fight this as comfortably as possible. I mostly see the Acara with the ICH on their body and fins, theres only a couple tetras that have visible ich, and it's only a spot or two on the fins. I will give an update as I see one to give.

[Cdubs231]

Today I lost one of the Acara, and I can't say I have noticed much of a reduction of white spots on the others. If anything it seems to be worse. I have removed some of the filter floss I had added and cleaned my filter sponge in hopes that less filtration might allow the medication to be exposed for longer. It always seems like the water is clear within just a few hours after administering the medication. I also had one of those eco-bio block things in the aquarium, and after seeing in the instructions for that to remove it if medicating, I did. I've had to check all of my bases today but I'm not sure if the Aqueon water conditioner is hurting or helping the situation. As I stated before, I feel like it is getting worse, and the fish are actually displaying some different behavior at this point, such as laying on the intake sponge often. It seems to be mainly confined to the Acara, the other fish in the tank aren't really affected by it. The Angelfish have 0 visible white spots, while the neons either have 0 or just a spot or two on their fins. This makes roughly 8 days trying to treat this. I may switch back to complete or just try using the prime at next water change.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Cdubs231

[Colu]

Ich causes massive electrolyte loss so I would also recommend adding a small amount of aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 5 gallons as well are your shore it's ich and not Epistylis that your fish have they are often confused with each other he's how you tell them a part @Cdubs231

Edited May 17, 2022 by Colu

[Cdubs231]

So, there's that, I mean I assume it is ICH, but I have never dealt with ICH before. What do I even do about the other one if it's that?

[Colu]

It's difficult to tell weather the spots are raised in your pictures the most effective treatment for Epistylis is kanaplex in food you can do a combined treatment of kanaplex in food and ick x to treat the water column that covers all bases @Cdubs231