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New tank set-up! Advice? Opinions?


SandBkeeper
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Hi all, 

I've decided to take down my 30ish gal (it's the footprint of a 25 gal but taller, about 27.5 gallons of water) and turn it into an aquascape/community/display tank. It's currently a quarantine/spare tank with 4 bolivian rams that will be moving out in a couple of weeks. Here is a picture of my idea:

IMG_4653.jpg.db6ebf918bb441d8772d8dea5daacdf8.jpg

If you can't read my terrible handwriting, here's basically what's going on

Plants 

- Amazon sword (I already have a huge amazon sword in this tank currently)

- Jungle val for the background plant

- bacopa caroliniana

- Alternanthera Reineckii (the red plant in the front)

- Some kind of grass plant (right now I'm leaning towards dwarf sag)

- Some species of Rotala

 

Substrate

- I already have a bag of aquasoil and sand, I just need to wash the sand

Should I separate the aquasoil and sand? If so how would you recommend to do that? I thought about using mesh bags like MD fish tanks, what are your opinions on that?

 

Stocking

- 10 ish black neon tetras

-4-6 forktail rainbow fish

-2 honey gouramis

- 4-6 panda cories

- mystery snail/amano shrimp/clean-up crew

I'm not too sure about panda cories, I've always had bad luck with cories (11/12 slate cories dying and 5/8 sterbai cories). Are there any other bottom dwelling fish you would recommend for this tank? 

Equipment

The tank is pretty much set up, it's got a matten filter, a plant light, and a heater. 

 

What are your thoughts in general with this tank idea?

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That sounds fun!

I don't know your tank dimensions but I will write the following based on the assumption it is somehow similar to 20L/29g,

.Hope any of these help:

  • I would reconsider Jungle val. They tend to shoot lots of random roots, which may be a chore to keep the aquascape you u want to have, especially u wanna keep all plants together. I agree it looks pretty in the back tho.
  • I would either do 1, or 1m:2f honey gouramis. Even though they stay on the peaceful side, I feel like the number two is generally always a good idea to avoid, unless it is a pair breeding project like angels for example. My gourami loves to sleep on top of my floating elodia sometimes during the night. So tall plants reaching the surface can be a nice thing to consider! Also to keep in mind, with this kind of scaping, you won't have much sight blocking for potential territorys. A good think to keep in mind for some fish needs.
  • I would skip forktails. I wouldn't add more mid/top column fast eaters. Honey gouramis can be shy eaters and neons will already eat the food crazy fast.
  • I would keep the panda school of at least 6 if you decide to go with that. Or maybe pygmy cories if you want something that will eat leftover food and give you some mid level swimming aswell. Just make sure you get tankbred ones. Stores may sell wild caught ones and you may end up with lots of deaths. You can find @Irene's video on this one. I will link the video at the bottom if you wanna check it!:)

          Other than cories, you may consider borneo sucker, I would say either 1 or 3. No twos. They would be better in 3+ if they can establish territories.

          Or, one panda garra maybe. Borneo suckers and panda garras are grazers mostly, even though they will probably go for fish food as well, they will want more algae and biofilm to graze on. I haven't kept panda garras yet, but my borneo sucker eats everything I drop to the tank, just like corys.

I'm dropping my topic here as you may read some other peoples comment. I was looking for a cleanup crew aswell lately for my new tank. My specific condition is having no lid tho, so you have even more options.

  • I thought I would go with sponge filter in my newest tank that I've been trying to aquascape too. But if you really care about the look, HOB and canisters seem to be the key. I couldn't find any place to fit my sponge filter after I scaped the tank. Ended up buying a new HOB. Probably gonna change its location after having plant growth on mine. I keep the sponge I got in my 29g as an extra just in case I need it some day.
  • Lastly, maybe you'd like the look of aquasoil/sand seperation in my tank. I dont think you should cover aquasoil with sand really, unless you want it ofcourse.

 

Here is the Irene's video. It might be your lfs carrying wild caught ones so that you have issues with corys.

Edited by Lennie
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Your plan is pretty solid. It's well thought out, which puts you ahead of most folks. 😛

Agree with @Lennie to skip the rainbows. Unless your tank will have anything higher than very low flow, in which case maybe do the rainbows, and skip the gouramis.

I've found cories to be hit and miss. I recommend that you buy them early, and hold them in a quarantine tank or tub for 3-6 weeks. Anything that survives that long will be good to move to the main tank. Anything that dies in quarantine wasn't strong when you got it. The quarantine should have low light, some hiding places, lots of bare or sandy floor space, and decent/high water changes. Big clumps of java moss are great. Cycled filter or sponges if possible. Extra airstone. 

Depending on how the tank runs, and how your nitrates climb, you might bump the cories to 10-12. 

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Thanks @Lennie and @TOtrees! The dimensions are 24"x12"x24", so similar to a 20 gal but taller. 

You make a good point with the honey gouramis so maybe I'll do 1m+2f. Hmmm...

I was debating on those rainbow fish since I might want to do a slightly bigger school of tetras. I think I'll pass on the forktails for now. I do currently have pygmy cories in a different tank, so I don't really want to do a different tank with them. I'll definitely check out borneo suckers and panda garras!

Yeah, cories seem to be the fishes I have the most trouble with. I would totally do as you suggest, but it pains me when I spend a lot of money on 8-12 cories and have most of them die in quarantine. That's why I chose panda cories as they mostly seem to be not wild caught around here. 

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On 2/2/2023 at 1:12 AM, SandBkeeper said:

The dimensions are 24"x12"x24", so similar to a 20 gal but taller. 

Okay that changes the things a lil bit. It makes 60cm x 30cm x 60cm if I'm not wrong. If it is 60 cm tall, then I would try to have some sort of activity on every level of the tank. In this case, I would consider forktail blue eyes for some top level action. I would do 2M:4F.

On middle column, black neons sounds good to me still. Whatever you like the look of.

In order to use the depth of the tank, I would probably either not get honeys, or get only one and make sure it gets food during meal times. It can be a lil tricky, I keep mine with rummy noses and he is a slow eater, but he is a constant poop machine and has a good weight so I know he is getting food. If you want a honey gourami, I would go for one, and make sure he is getting food.

And again, I would go for a bottom dweller like a panda corys. I wouldn't say kuhli loaches, as you can keep a limited amount in that tank size and they will be skittish  during dsy time  especially in small groups and naturally nocturnal anyway. So unlikely to have some bottom action with kuhlis. A small group of panda corys sound like a good idea for some bottom action. I still advice to search more about borneos and panda garras too. The problematic side of those two is making sure of natural food constantly available for them to graze on, and high groups can run out of algae/biofilm to graze on easily. Panda garras like rocks, just to keep in mind! Whicever you like the character and look of.

 

P.s: I highly recommend floating plants like water lettuce, salvinia, frogbit or redrooters. Whatever you like. They really help with keeping a tank on the overstocked side in my experience.

Edited by Lennie
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On 2/1/2023 at 5:56 PM, Lennie said:

In order to use the depth of the tank, I would probably either not get honeys, or get only one and make sure it gets food during meal times.

Ok, I'll just do 1 then. 

On 2/1/2023 at 5:56 PM, Lennie said:

In this case, I would consider forktail blue eyes for some top level action. I would do 2M:4F.

Yep its a taller tank, which is why I wanted the forktails in the first place. I need activity on all levels of the tank!

On 2/1/2023 at 5:56 PM, Lennie said:

And again, I would go for a bottom dweller like a panda corys.

The more I think about it, panda corys still seem like the best bottom feeder for this set up. Oh well, at least they're cute!

On 2/1/2023 at 5:20 PM, TOtrees said:

Can you find any local breeders?

I'm looking right now but haven't found any local breeders of panda cories. Most of the people near me seem to be trying to breed rarer and more expensive ones :classic_sad:. I'll keep looking and if I can't find any, the ones at my lfs look pretty ok. 

On 2/1/2023 at 5:56 PM, Lennie said:

P.s: I highly recommend floating plants like water lettuce, salvinia, frogbit or redrooters. Whatever you like. They really help with keeping a tank on the overstocked side in my experience.

I've done most type of floaters and didn't want to do them for this tank because 

a. frogbit and water lettuce have roots that get way too long

b. I have duckweed in all my tanks and it sucks. I'm never going to get rid of it. 

c. I tried red root floaters and they just didn't thrive in my tanks 

But maybe if I see problems with algae or nitrates I'll consider salvinia or red roots again. Thanks for the advice though!

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  • 2 weeks later...

So I've started this project a bit earlier than expected, but here's how it's going. 

I went to a new fish store, and they had a batch of honey gouramis that were super healthy looking. I couldn't resist, and ended up with 3. The employee sexed them for me and now I have 1M:2F honey gouramis. I have them in a 10g quarantine tank until their permanent tank finishes cycling. 

The day I got the gouramis, I moved the rams over to their permanent home. Then I tore it apart, dumped in new aquasoil, and let all the dust settle. The next day I ordered my plants, and added the amazon sword and the rocks. Yesterday, my plants arrived and they all went in. I ended up with this list of plants. 

- Amazon sword

- Jungle val

- rotala indica

- alternanthera reineckii mini

- pygmy chain sword

- bacopa caroliniana

- water lettuce

- and not be intention, duckweed

IMG_4762.jpg?width=750&height=563

Still debating on stocking, cause when I went to the fish store to get the gouramis I saw emperor tetras, which I though were really pretty. Which do you think would be better, black neons or emperors?

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I wouldn't put black neons or emperors in there due to the dimensions. Not much swimming space for them and they get a bit chunky. Would also go for a smaller cory like pygmaeus or habrosus, cause of the floor space. 

The forktails could work but there's a smaller pseudomugil that can work even better (either gertrudae or luminatus) or something even smaller are clown killifish. 

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Aquasoils generally leech lots of stuff including ammonia to the water, so generally livestock addition is adviced to be postponed for a couple weeks and big water changes are recommended during the first month.

I've personally seen ammonia for the  first two weeks and made %50 water changes once every 2-3 days. After adding very established media and constant water changes, I no longer see any. I've planted quite heavily on day one, but they take time to settle first before they handle stuff

Be careful with that one

 

Edited by Lennie
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On 2/15/2023 at 3:01 PM, knee said:

I wouldn't put black neons or emperors in there due to the dimensions. Not much swimming space for them and they get a bit chunky. Would also go for a smaller cory like pygmaeus or habrosus, cause of the floor space. 

The forktails could work but there's a smaller pseudomugil that can work even better (either gertrudae or luminatus) or something even smaller are clown killifish. 

Thanks for the advice! I might consider habrosus, as I already have pygmaeus in a different tank. What tetra/schooling fish would you recommend to replace the neons?

On 2/15/2023 at 3:22 PM, Lennie said:

Aquasoils generally leech lots of stuff including ammonia to the water, so generally livestock addition is adviced to be postponed for a couple weeks and big water changes are recommended during the first month.

I've personally seen ammonia for the  first two weeks and made %50 water changes once every 2-3 days. After adding very established media and constant water changes, I no longer see any. I've planted quite heavily on day one, but they take time to settle first before they handle stuff

Be careful with that one

 

Yep I'm aware of the ammonia spikes you get with new aquasoils. I'm not going to add any fish or snails for at least a month, or until I can make sure the water parameters are ok. I don't think it will be too much of a problem, especially with the amount of plants and an already established filter. 

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On 2/15/2023 at 1:07 PM, SandBkeeper said:

Thanks for the advice! I might consider habrosus, as I already have pygmaeus in a different tank. What tetra/schooling fish would you recommend to replace the neons?

Chili rasboras or any of the boraras species (they look very similar). They have been more popular in the hobby and are more readily available now. You can also check for Sundadanio Axelrodi, they are very pretty fish with a blue sheen to them. But they require a bit more care than others because they prefer soft acidic water with lots of leaf litter.

You can also look into dwarf pencilfish for your mid level fish although they do swim on every level of the tank, they stay mostly mid/bottom.

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On 2/15/2023 at 4:15 PM, knee said:

Chili rasboras or any of the boraras species (they look very similar). They have been more popular in the hobby and are more readily available now. You can also check for Sundadanio Axelrodi, they are very pretty fish with a blue sheen to them. But they require a bit more care than others because they prefer soft acidic water with lots of leaf litter.

You can also look into dwarf pencilfish for your mid level fish although they do swim on every level of the tank, they stay mostly mid/bottom.

haha I already have pretty much all of the species you are recommending. For my 20 long, I have pygmy corys and dwarf rasboras, and I have a school of beckford pencilfish in a different community tank. I've even had a few babies out of them. Back the drawing board for this one it seems....

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On 2/15/2023 at 1:28 PM, SandBkeeper said:

haha I already have pretty much all of the species you are recommending. For my 20 long, I have pygmy corys and dwarf rasboras, and I have a school of beckford pencilfish in a different community tank. I've even had a few babies out of them. Back the drawing board for this one it seems....

Beckford pencilfish are different from dwarf pencilfish but I get what you're saying. I also don't keep the same fish in my tanks. But you're pretty limited with the stocking due to the dimensions of your tank. At the end of the day, it's your tank and you can put what you think will work in it.

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