filtration - HOB vs sponge filters (not the same old question.. I think?)

[YYC Carrie]

Hey fam,

Here's my problem. I have a 90 gallon I am working on getting filtered properly and I thought I had it dialed in - I so did not. Not at all.

There are two filters on it, one is a modified HOB with filter floss instead of the cartridges, and some terrestrial plants with the roots in that. There is also a submersible filter on the other end of the tank. I am not happy with the HOB, at all, and I don't like the internal filter because it just is so... difficult for me.. to clean. I struggle with mobility problems and cleaning these filters is proving to be a monumental task.

I have loved the ideal of the sponge filter's and I believe this will be effective for most of my tanks - I have one like this: https://www.amazon.ca/Aquarium-Replaceable-Biochemical-Filtered-Gallon（M）/dp/B07VV89SJY/ref=sr_1_5?crid=24AOKAQDI4L89&keywords=hygger%2Bsponge%2Bfilter%2Baquarium%2Blarge&qid=1675058485&s=pet-supplies&sprefix=hygger%2Bsponge%2Bfilter%2Baquarium%2Blarg%2Cpets%2C175&sr=1-5&th=1 in my 55 gallon and I like it a lot, I need to get something for a bit more water movement at the other end for this seems to be working for that tank.

The question here is, would running 2 or even three of these in the 90 gallon be enough filtration for a fairly heavily stocked 90 gallon. Currently in that tank is a 4-5 inch sand layer, a few floating plants - mostly duckweed, a breeding trio of convicts with some of their offspring, 10 platinum parrots (young still), 6 Sydontis cats, and snails.

I plan to rehome most of the convicts, I am hoping the parrot's and the Sydontis cats will cohabitate for a while, though I think I may have underestimated the size the platinum parrot's would grow too. I was told they would only get to about 4.5-5 inches and would be smaller than their blood parrot relatives.

I have one of the hygger sponge filter's posted above, but I also found https://www.amazon.ca/Aquarium-Equipment-Suction-Double-Biochemical/dp/B07ZS9QQM3/ref=sr_1_24?crid=1OCRI93FHRR9X&keywords=powkoo&qid=1675058147&s=pet-supplies&sprefix=powkoo%2Cpets%2C123&sr=1-24&th=1

 

I am about to give up on the 90 tbh, rehome all the fish in it and pack it away till I'm grown up enough to handle it. I feel defeated by this tank. I'm tired of the filter's getting all clogged up. I've got an HOB running on my 30 gallon also - I hate it too. 

 

anyway, thanks for letting me rant, ask rambling questions, and pick all y'all's brains. 😉

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/29/2023 at 10:05 PM, YYC Carrie said:

Here's my problem. I have a 90 gallon I am working on getting filtered properly and I thought I had it dialed in - I so did not. Not at all.

There are two filters on it, one is a modified HOB with filter floss instead of the cartridges, and some terrestrial plants with the roots in that. There is also a submersible filter on the other end of the tank. I am not happy with the HOB, at all, and I don't like the internal filter because it just is so... difficult for me.. to clean. I struggle with mobility problems and cleaning these filters is proving to be a monumental task.

What filters, how were they setup?  In my 75 I ran 2, so I think you may just need a slight tweak to the setup.  Whether you add a sponge or not, I did want to mention that having the HoB on hand to polish water or run carbon when you need it is a good idea. So try to keep that in a fish tote or something.

On 1/29/2023 at 10:05 PM, YYC Carrie said:

I am about to give up on the 90 tbh, rehome all the fish in it and pack it away till I'm grown up enough to handle it. I feel defeated by this tank. I'm tired of the filter's getting all clogged up. I've got an HOB running on my 30 gallon also - I hate it too. 

I have a link in my signature about my own journey and frustration with my filter.  I can promise you that I can help get things on the right track and we all can offer some advice here to make things work for you, the way you want them to, and make the hobby a little easier.  I will add a thread below, but please feel free to DM or to post below your specific issues with photos so we can try to help fix the issues you're having.   I do apologize on behalf of the HoB companies for your issues, unfortunately this is somewhat normal and is a major barrier to entry for some hobbyists.  I've seen it happen before, so I am really curious about what's going on and what issues you're having.

On 1/29/2023 at 10:05 PM, YYC Carrie said:

The question here is, would running 2 or even three of these in the 90 gallon be enough filtration for a fairly heavily stocked 90 gallon. Currently in that tank is a 4-5 inch sand layer, a few floating plants - mostly duckweed, a breeding trio of convicts with some of their offspring, 10 platinum parrots (young still), 6 Sydontis cats, and snails.

Given that load and stocking I would think you'd want 4 of those in a tank that size.  I can't say it would be perfect because in terms of circulation you're asking a lot for that little filter to handle.  Biologically it might be fine, but mechanically, you'd be having issues with dirty sand.    For a tank that size I would lean towards having a pumphead with spraybar or a canister filter with a spraybar as the "go to".  Something like the ACO sponge filter with the pumphead might be a great way to have enough circulation and to give yourself a similar style of filtration.  I can't say it would be easy to clean, but that is just something to note as an option.

I would run at least 3 of the large ACO sponges, preferably 2 of them with powerheads if you go that route.  Again, i would recommend a spraybar or duckbill output on your pumphead to improve circulation.  That would give you a slightly better experience with the stocking and circulation.

 

[YYC Carrie]

@nabokovfan87I'm not really worried about the sand being a bit dirty since I do mean to add leaf litter etc. Although I think you're right about the powerhead. As far as the AOC sponges, unfortunately, I am in Canada and have not yet found a vendor for Co-op items - I live for the day I do lol. When I get home from work tonight, if it's not too late, I'll post some pics of everything even though I'm kind of embarrassed to post pics of this setup lol. It's ROUGH looking lmao.

[jwcarlson]

On 1/30/2023 at 7:14 AM, YYC Carrie said:

@nabokovfan87I'm not really worried about the sand being a bit dirty since I do mean to add leaf litter etc. Although I think you're right about the powerhead. As far as the AOC sponges, unfortunately, I am in Canada and have not yet found a vendor for Co-op items - I live for the day I do lol. When I get home from work tonight, if it's not too late, I'll post some pics of everything even though I'm kind of embarrassed to post pics of this setup lol. It's ROUGH looking lmao.

I don't think you'll find a tank shamer on here.  There's nothing uglier than a discus grow out tank, but here's my 75 gallon setup.  It's changed a lot now.  All of the double stacked filters are gone as well as the other two sponges.  Replaced with a single stacked large filter (for emergency or cycle kick start use) and a Tidal 110 HOB.  There's some driftwood with anubias glued to them as well now.  In any event, this filtration setup worked well for me, but that's with me doing 90% daily water changes for nearly the last year.  I wouldn't ever get too worried about the current state of your tank as long as it's not actively making fish sick or making you want to leave the hobby.  It's OK to make incremental improvements.

The filtration setup in this tank would have worked "forever" if that's what I wanted to do with it.  But the biggest drawback of sponge filters, in my opinion, if the amount of floor space they take up.  

The one caution I'd say about the types of sponge filters you've linked is that those fine ones "clog" up really quick.  Meaning, they do a lot more mechanical filtration than the Aquarium Co-Op ones do.  I have quite a few of the coarse ones from ACO and I love them.  But in my discus tank I would usually squeeze sponges to clean them weekly and there's next to nothing in the ACO ones because they're so coarse.  Which for my discus application or for a tank with a HOB or other filtration and the ACO sponge acting as a souped up airstone is perfect.  

My personal suggestion would be to get a HOB (something sized for your entire tank) and then have a sponge filter or two of basically any type as your glorified air stone.  Like @nabokovfan87 says above a HOB does a much much better job polishing the water.

 

I don't know if having a before/after helps visualize the difference or not.  There's no way to have driftwood and all of these sponges in a tank... it's just too much.  I much like the HOB + a single sponge.

 

[Lennie]

On 1/30/2023 at 4:46 PM, jwcarlson said:

 

Checkerboards are generally my fav, they are adorable as hell. I wasn't expecting blues to look this cool, even on a blue background!😍

[TOtrees]

Hi,

I have purchased/owned/used the hygger double sponge you have in your 55, the "flat-headed" double sponge you linked above, and coop sponges. Do stay away from the flat-headed one, it's not bad for a 5-10 gallon tank, but will be massively undersized for what you're looking for here. 

The hygger (and others similar to it) can move a lot of water if properly set up. I do find the fine sponges are not awesome, but see my recent thread about replacing the sponges with coarser blocks here https://forum.aquariumcoop.com/topic/30457-when-sponge-filter-mods-work-better-than-expected/#comment-283044. Product link is Canada-friendly 🙂 (and not sponsored). 

If you're set on sponge filters, you can't go wrong with the Hydro line. A couple of Hydro Pro Vs (pro means it has their coarser sponge) would be okay for a big tank like that. If you can find them. PM me if you want suggestions for a couple of online sellers I know of here in Ontario. 

But I really get the sense you're looking for simplicity/accessibility. For ease of maintenance, something like the Aquaclear 110 or Seachem Tidal 110 are both quality filters, that can be cleaned/serviced really easily. A pair of them would be fine for a big tank like that. 

Or get a canister, if you can set it up with easy (front) access. Most/all canisters now have valves on the in and out tubes, so you can shut off (seal) the hoses to and from the canister, disconnect them and remove it to the sink without touching anything the tank. 

If cost is an issue for you, head over to Kijiji or FB for used options. 

I hope we figure something out for you, to get this back to something manageable and maybe even sometimes enjoyable. 🙂

 

[jwcarlson]

On 1/30/2023 at 8:01 AM, Lennie said:

Checkerboards are generally my fav, they are adorable as hell. I wasn't expecting blues to look this cool, even on a blue background!😍

The two that I lost were also blue (turqoise and 2nd blue diamond).  So it would have been a bit better rounded out overall appearance with them in the mix, I think.  If I had to do it all over again, I would go with 10 red spotted greens, I think.  Or tefe (though I don't know if those two are different).  Basically, something more wild looking, but not wild.

I'm happy with what I've gotten out of them, though.  Learned a lot... changed a lot of water (about 22,000 gallons by my estimation).  😮

 

[lefty o]

i would suggest picking up a good sponge filter to try. take out 1 existing filter, and put a sponge in its place for a while and see how you like it. if you think its good, you can try replacing the other one. there is no hard and fast rule, every one's tank is different, and you just have to figure out what works well for you.

[Guppysnail]

I sometimes snap the coop powerheads on to the sponge filter to get more movement and a touch more mechanical filtration out of sponge filters. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/30/2023 at 5:14 AM, YYC Carrie said:

@nabokovfan87I'm not really worried about the sand being a bit dirty since I do mean to add leaf litter etc. Although I think you're right about the powerhead. As far as the AOC sponges, unfortunately, I am in Canada and have not yet found a vendor for Co-op items - I live for the day I do lol. When I get home from work tonight, if it's not too late, I'll post some pics of everything even though I'm kind of embarrassed to post pics of this setup lol. It's ROUGH looking lmao.

Don't be.... I have been there, we all have.  Gotta start somewhere!

Check out Sicce pumpheads or you can also look into circulation pumps / wavemakers (they look like little fans and use magnets to attach to glass.

There is a vendor in Canada (at least one partner store).  I am unsure if they ship.  Amazon canada also used to have some items.
https://yourlocalfishstore.com/shop/ (April's Aquarium)

Edited January 30, 2023 by nabokovfan87

[YYC Carrie]

On 1/30/2023 at 7:26 AM, TOtrees said:

Hi,

I have purchased/owned/used the hygger double sponge you have in your 55, the "flat-headed" double sponge you linked above, and coop sponges. Do stay away from the flat-headed one, it's not bad for a 5-10 gallon tank, but will be massively undersized for what you're looking for here. 

The hygger (and others similar to it) can move a lot of water if properly set up. I do find the fine sponges are not awesome, but see my recent thread about replacing the sponges with coarser blocks here https://forum.aquariumcoop.com/topic/30457-when-sponge-filter-mods-work-better-than-expected/#comment-283044. Product link is Canada-friendly 🙂 (and not sponsored). 

If you're set on sponge filters, you can't go wrong with the Hydro line. A couple of Hydro Pro Vs (pro means it has their coarser sponge) would be okay for a big tank like that. If you can find them. PM me if you want suggestions for a couple of online sellers I know of here in Ontario. 

But I really get the sense you're looking for simplicity/accessibility. For ease of maintenance, something like the Aquaclear 110 or Seachem Tidal 110 are both quality filters, that can be cleaned/serviced really easily. A pair of them would be fine for a big tank like that. 

Or get a canister, if you can set it up with easy (front) access. Most/all canisters now have valves on the in and out tubes, so you can shut off (seal) the hoses to and from the canister, disconnect them and remove it to the sink without touching anything the tank. 

If cost is an issue for you, head over to Kijiji or FB for used options. 

I hope we figure something out for you, to get this back to something manageable and maybe even sometimes enjoyable. 🙂

 

I looked up the Hydro Pro V, how does it work? Is it like a canister filter? I'm not sure about canisters tbh. As far as the aquaclear's go, I was a fan of them at first just because of the way they work with sponges and other media that you don't need to shell out for cartridges on a monthly basis, but I'm NOT a fan of needing to prime them every time they get unplugged (my cats are bad bad bad girls), or I unplug it for maintenance. bleh. LOL I know I sound a bit whiney sometimes.

The Hygger dual sponge I have in my 55 is "rated" for up to a 50 gallon I believe, I plan to add another on on the other end of the tank one day. As far as using them in the 90, my thought was to use 4 of them. One on either end and 2 spaced out along the back wall. I have a MASSIVE red lava rock formation thingy in it that would hide most of the 2 on the back and if I put a couple of tall plants at the bases of the two on the end, I believe the plant would hide most of those two as well. Plus, if I paint the back and sides of the tank black, the filter's should kind of "blend in", especially if I use the black air lines? This is all my thought process.

On 1/30/2023 at 7:58 AM, lefty o said:

i would suggest picking up a good sponge filter to try. take out 1 existing filter, and put a sponge in its place for a while and see how you like it. if you think its good, you can try replacing the other one. there is no hard and fast rule, every one's tank is different, and you just have to figure out what works well for you.

Thank you for the encouragement!! I am hoping that the sponge filters, or at least some sort of combination of them will work. I really like the idea of using the plant roots as a filter as well, but I am MILES away from understanding exactly how to set THAT up. lol

On 1/30/2023 at 1:19 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Don't be.... I have been there, we all have.  Gotta start somewhere!

Check out Sicce pumpheads or you can also look into circulation pumps / wavemakers (they look like little fans and use magnets to attach to glass.

There is a vendor in Canada (at least one partner store).  I am unsure if they ship.  Amazon canada also used to have some items.
https://yourlocalfishstore.com/shop/ (April's Aquarium)

I checked out April's Aquarium store and she does ship! She also sells and ships some nice looking locally bred fish too! She's been bookmarked and I will be ordering from her in the future. There are several Aquarium Co-op items I am wanting to get so thank you for pointing that out!!

Amazon does not appear to sell Co-op brand items anymore, at least not the items I want. I know there are a few things that used to be available on Amazon, but Amazon appears to have replaced them.

 

On 1/30/2023 at 8:27 AM, Guppysnail said:

I sometimes snap the coop powerheads on to the sponge filter to get more movement and a touch more mechanical filtration out of sponge filters. 

The internal filter I bought appears to be just such a set up - which doesn't seem to be pumping properly all of a sudden. https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B09NBN4V2V?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details  <<-- this is the one I bought. I liked it.. but seems to not be working at all anymore. Less than a month in 😕

[TOtrees]

On 1/31/2023 at 1:34 AM, YYC Carrie said:

I looked up the Hydro Pro V, how does it work? Is it like a canister filter?

It's a sponge filter, just like the ones from coop. Better IMHO but I know other readers here will disagree, which is fine. Here's a link to an Ontario seller with a pic (though it's out of stock at this time): https://www.proaquarium.ca/hydro-pro-sponge-filter-coarse-h-p.html. But you can see what they look like. "V" (as in 5) is the largest size. A couple of these will give you better filtration than 4 of the dual sponges, I believe. 

"Pro" means it's the coarser sponge option, which is better than fine IMO. 

I have various sizes of these sponges in most of my tanks, and it would be all if budget allowed it (I'm getting there). You can easily add a power head instead of airstone, for a bit more filtration/circulation, but this will also mean more cleaning. 

[SupersoNick95]

I think the Coop sponges are perfect. Not too fine which means less cleaning. All that matters for the health of the fish is biological filtration which the large coop sponges provide plenty once cycled properly. 

Maybe buy an aquaclear or seachem tidal to go along with the sponges? I just don't know how your mobility issues would factor into cleaning. Sponges are by far the easiest for maintenance. I just bought an Aquaclear 20 for a planted nano tank on my desk. I love to "over filter" both for mechanical and biological filtration. I own sponges, a canister filter, and several HOB's and by far my favorite is the aquaclear. Id even swaps my canister on my Tanganiykan tank for a 110 if I could but I just can't be bothered. I own a Seachem Tidal and it is great, runs dead quiet but I just can't stand the shape of the basket, it's my only gripe and it's a pain to clean the motor.  You can really stuff the Aqua clears full of stuff and they are super easy to remove from the tank for a yearly cleaning. I have seen many complain of noise but I haven't had an issue... yet lol

[YYC Carrie]

On 2/2/2023 at 11:44 AM, SupersoNick95 said:

.....I just don't know how your mobility issues would factor into cleaning. Sponges are by far the easiest for maintenance......

agreed about the sponges being the simplest/easiest. as far as other filter maintenance goes, I am 5'4 and unable to use step stools due to being unsteady on my feet. The top of my 90 gallon is at my eye level, making it very difficult to even reach in to place anything in the tank, but to also try to reach around and get the HOB off etc - it's a nightmare lol. I am working on work arounds and alternative ways of doing things, I will eventually  get it dialed in and able to do it properly 😉

 

I am also unable to lift heavy things and, atm, am dependent on my housemates to do all the heavy lifting. I got a python water changer and have used it a couple of times now, this seems to be very helpful. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 2/2/2023 at 10:13 PM, YYC Carrie said:

I am also unable to lift heavy things and, atm, am dependent on my housemates to do all the heavy lifting. I got a python water changer and have used it a couple of times now, this seems to be very helpful. 

Hm. Maybe undergravel is the way to go then? Just rely on the siphon itself, not actually having to remove the filtration.

You can pull the sponges out via the attached airline without too much fuss to clean them, that also is another point towards those ones.

There is also some fluvial or other brands that make finger grabbers for tall tanks.

On your python, do you have the larger tube on it to reach the full height of the tank?

On 2/2/2023 at 10:13 PM, YYC Carrie said:

but to also try to reach around and get the HOB off etc - it's a nightmare

It might be a solution, but potentially side mount the HoBs?  What about making your filter a sump?

[YYC Carrie]

On 2/1/2023 at 11:46 AM, TOtrees said:

It's a sponge filter, just like the ones from coop. Better IMHO but I know other readers here will disagree, which is fine. Here's a link to an Ontario seller with a pic (though it's out of stock at this time): https://www.proaquarium.ca/hydro-pro-sponge-filter-coarse-h-p.html. But you can see what they look like. "V" (as in 5) is the largest size. A couple of these will give you better filtration than 4 of the dual sponges, I believe. 

"Pro" means it's the coarser sponge option, which is better than fine IMO. 

I have various sizes of these sponges in most of my tanks, and it would be all if budget allowed it (I'm getting there). You can easily add a power head instead of airstone, for a bit more filtration/circulation, but this will also mean more cleaning. 

truthfully, it looks identical. I may try a couple of them. We will see how the dual sponges do.

On 2/3/2023 at 2:25 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Hm. Maybe undergravel is the way to go then? Just rely on the siphon itself, not actually having to remove the filtration.

You can pull the sponges out via the attached airline without too much fuss to clean them, that also is another point towards those ones.

There is also some fluvial or other brands that make finger grabbers for tall tanks.

On your python, do you have the larger tube on it to reach the full height of the tank?

It might be a solution, but potentially side mount the HoBs?  What about making your filter a sump?

I have thought about an undergravel honestly. I was put off them by my original experinces with having one "back in the day". I tossed that whole set up, but with more age (patience), and experience now in the hobby (limited admittedly, but getting there haha), perhaps I will give it a go and get better results. I currently have an empty 30 looking for some inhabitants and stuff, I'll likely try my hand with it in that tank once I get the 90 sorted out. One thing at a time and all that Jazz lol.

 

 

[nabokovfan87]

On 2/5/2023 at 3:52 PM, YYC Carrie said:

I have thought about an undergravel honestly. I was put off them by my original experinces with having one "back in the day".

Agreed. I think there's a lot better information than we've had available to us "back in the day," thankfully.

Maybe we all just didn't understand how to set things up?

[Tanked]

On 1/30/2023 at 1:05 AM, YYC Carrie said:

I am about to give up on the 90 tbh, rehome all the fish in it and pack it away till I'm grown up enough to handle it. I feel defeated by this tank. I'm tired of the filter's getting all clogged up. I've got an HOB running on my 30 gallon also - I hate it too. 

I'm going to go against the flow here and suggest that you keep the HOB filters. Mechanical filtration is important. I'm not sure that replacing the HOB with multiple sponge filters will solve your issues.  My 29 and 75 use HOB and UGFs in combination.  The 75 includes powerheads on the UGF. Unfortunately sand and UGFs are a bad combination.  I would suggest that you make sure your HOB is sized for the tank.  Find a new home for the plants in your filter and replace the filter floss with a sponge.  Some of my filters still use cartridges that I have removed the carbon from and and just reuse until they physically wear out.