Jump to content

Tiny white spots


kgeugene
 Share

Recommended Posts

My gourami has very tiny spots that are hard to see. I am guessing they are too small to be ich. They are also barely visible when there is no direct light overhead.  I went to the store couple days ago since I live close by. I showed the first picture to the staff and he suggested Velvet. He also mentioned that I should email the store to get more info on this. I assumed it would be on the website but I don't see one so I am posting on this forum instead. I bought Ich-X and she is being treated.

Nitrate: 20

Ammonia: 0

Nitrite: 0

pH: 6.8

Kh: 3

Gh: 6

Temperature: was in low 70 but in high 70 now.

 

Thank you.

Samurai.jpg

Samurai2.jpg

Samurai3.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/24/2023 at 4:28 AM, Colu said:

Are the spots raised or flat 

I found a better pic. She is only about 1.5 inches.

I also found a small bump on the 2nd pic (the red arrow) that seems like a different issue if it's not normal. The brownish circles behind her eyes seem to be normal because some random pictures from Googling also have them.

White spots.jpg

White bump.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Especially seeing the white spots on the eye (first photo on the latest post) is an indication. I was trying to find the name but there is two diseases that prevent very similarly. One will have white spots on the eye (bacterial I believe) while the other will have it on the fin rays mostly (Ich)

Do one of you recall so we can clarify this for @kgeugene

@Coluoor @Odd Duck

Edited by nabokovfan87
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/24/2023 at 11:34 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Especially seeing the white spots on the eye (first photo on the latest post) is an indication. I was trying to find the name but there is two diseases that prevent very similarly. One will have white spots on the eye (bacterial I believe) while the other will have it on the fin rays mostly (Ich)

Do one of you recall so we can clarify this for @kgeugene

@Coluoor @Odd Duck

Could be epistylis it feeds off gram negative bacterial on the skin of your fish and spreads more quickly at higher temperatures  the most effective treatment is kanaplex in food feeding a small amount twice a day for 7 days  and ick X to treat the tank 

IMG_20230119_143743.jpg

Edited by Colu
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/24/2023 at 3:34 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Especially seeing the white spots on the eye (first photo on the latest post) is an indication. I was trying to find the name but there is two diseases that prevent very similarly. One will have white spots on the eye (bacterial I believe) while the other will have it on the fin rays mostly (Ich)

Do one of you recall so we can clarify this for @kgeugene

@Coluoor @Odd Duck

Thank you.

On 1/24/2023 at 3:47 PM, Colu said:

Could be epistylis it feeds off gram negative bacterial on the skin of your fish and spreads more quickly at higher temperatures  the most effective treatment is kanaplex in food feeding a small amount twice a day for 7 days  and ick X to treat the tank 

IMG_20230119_143743.jpg

Thank you. I guess I will keep using Ich-X while waiting for the others to arrive. I couldn't find them in stores around my area.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kanaplex is best dosed in the water since it isn’t absorbed to any degree through the intestinal tract.  A UV filter can help take some pathogens out of the water and aquarium salt can help reduce pathogens plus support the fish and reduce metabolic stress so their immune system works a bit better.  One tablespoon salt per 5 gallons is a good starting place and typically won’t bother most plants.

I’m a little concerned that you might have 2 separate issues.  Ich (Ichthiopthirius multifiliis) is a microscopic parasite that tends to have a very consistent appearance like specks of salt sprinkled over the fish that are not raised by very much, usually only a tiny bit.  Epistylis is another parasite that usually have more irregularly sized and shaped lesions that tend to be more raised than Ich.  The only difference in treatment is that Epistylus likes heat and Ich doesn’t. The usual treatment for Ich is raising the temp to 82-84’F, adding aquarium salt, and use the Ich-X.  Epistylus you use the same treatments except for raising the temp.

There can be secondary bacterial infections along with either parasite but my impression (I’ve not seen studies that say this) is that Epistylus seems a bit more likely to get secondary bacterial infections. Ich-X has some antibacterial effect so you may not need to use any antibiotic with it.

It looks like you might have 2 separate infections going on since most of the lesions look like Ich, but that chin spot looks more like a focal bacterial or Epistylus infection.  I would salt the water, continue the Ich-X, get a UV filter going if you can, but then watch for a day or so.  Order the Kanaplex so you have it if you need it.  Be diligent with water changes and keep temperature and other water parameters as consistent as possible.  See if you can get your nitrate down to 10 or less for now.  Your plants can handle that for a while and your fish will be better off during recovery.

Do you have any other fish in the tank?  I’m assuming no other fish have any lesions?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/25/2023 at 3:23 AM, Odd Duck said:

Kanaplex is best dosed in the water since it isn’t absorbed to any degree through the intestinal tract.  A UV filter can help take some pathogens out of the water and aquarium salt can help reduce pathogens plus support the fish and reduce metabolic stress so their immune system works a bit better.  One tablespoon salt per 5 gallons is a good starting place and typically won’t bother most plants.

I’m a little concerned that you might have 2 separate issues.  Ich (Ichthiopthirius multifiliis) is a microscopic parasite that tends to have a very consistent appearance like specks of salt sprinkled over the fish that are not raised by very much, usually only a tiny bit.  Epistylis is another parasite that usually have more irregularly sized and shaped lesions that tend to be more raised than Ich.  The only difference in treatment is that Epistylus likes heat and Ich doesn’t. The usual treatment for Ich is raising the temp to 82-84’F, adding aquarium salt, and use the Ich-X.  Epistylus you use the same treatments except for raising the temp.

There can be secondary bacterial infections along with either parasite but my impression (I’ve not seen studies that say this) is that Epistylus seems a bit more likely to get secondary bacterial infections. Ich-X has some antibacterial effect so you may not need to use any antibiotic with it.

It looks like you might have 2 separate infections going on since most of the lesions look like Ich, but that chin spot looks more like a focal bacterial or Epistylus infection.  I would salt the water, continue the Ich-X, get a UV filter going if you can, but then watch for a day or so.  Order the Kanaplex so you have it if you need it.  Be diligent with water changes and keep temperature and other water parameters as consistent as possible.  See if you can get your nitrate down to 10 or less for now.  Your plants can handle that for a while and your fish will be better off during recovery.

Do you have any other fish in the tank?  I’m assuming no other fish have any lesions?

Thank you. Other fish don't seem to have any. The problem is that it was pretty much invisible without my lighting directly shining on her from overhead (I am not even sure if she has any now cuz she avoids areas with strong lighting). I couldn't even see them when I pointed my flashlight at her from the side. My CPDs are constantly moving around in their shiny tiny bodies, so I can't see any. I don't see any on my Honey Gourami but he is bright yellow. BUT, these two Gouramies have been flashing occasionally (maybe once a day against largest leaves I have during my presence but never repeatedly.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If there’s flashing by other fish, I would do some careful reading about each species to try to determine if anyone is overly sensitive, then I would treat for parasites - specifically gill flukes but also intestinal parasites - with both Praziquantal and Levamisole. Let me link my deworming regimen recommendations.  Pardon the font size.  It’s stupidly challenging to get the iPad to change font on a paste from “Notes” like this.

Deworming

Siphon out debris from the bottom before and after dosing to remove any expelled worms, eggs, debris, etc.  Levamisole is inactivated by organic debris and by light, so dose after lights out and black out the tank for 24 hours, remove organics via water changes and cleaning the bottom of debris as much as possible.

It’s likely that levamisole does what it can do within the first hour, but best to follow directions precisely.  If you have a bare bottom hospital tank available, it might be best and easiest to transfer the fish to that tank for the duration of treatment - up to 5 weeks total treatment time if doing 3 doses of praziquantal.

Levamisole treatment should be weekly for 4 treatments.  Praziquantal treatment should be every other week (at least) for 2-3 treatments and it is left in for a week at a time.  It can be dosed the day after levamisole treatment.  Remove any carbon or Purigen from filters before dosing.

Have enough dechlorinated water to do a 50% water change immediately if any adverse symptoms are seen in the fish.

A typical treatment regimen: 

1. 50% water change with careful siphoning of debris from the bottom of the tank.

2. Dose with levamisole and black out the tank for 24 hours.  Then 50% water change siphoning the entire bottom of the tank.

3. Dose with praziquantal directly after the second 50% WC.

4. One week later, 50% water change siphoning the bottom thoroughly.  Dose with levamisole following directions in step 1-2.

5. One week later (start of week 3 of treatment), repeat all steps 1-4 over another 2 weeks time.

6. Repeat all steps 1-5, then do last WC one week later after third dose of praziquantal.

Not all snails will tolerate treatments, so best to remove any snails in the tank.

 

Condensed, weekly schedule:

Week 1: siphon debris and do 50% water change, levamisole x 24 hrs, siphon.  Treat with praziquantal and leave in until next week.

Week 2: siphon, levam x 24 hrs, siphon.

Week 3: siphon, levam x 24 hrs, siphon, then prazi.

Week 4: siphon, levam x 24 hrs, siphon.

Week 5: siphon, levam x 24 hrs, siphon, then prazi.

Week 6: siphon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/26/2023 at 1:57 PM, Odd Duck said:

If there’s flashing by other fish, I would do some careful reading about each species to try to determine if anyone is overly sensitive, then I would treat for parasites - specifically gill flukes but also intestinal parasites - with both Praziquantal and Levamisole. Let me link my deworming regimen recommendations.  Pardon the font size.  It’s stupidly challenging to get the iPad to change font on a paste from “Notes” like this.

Deworming

Siphon out debris from the bottom before and after dosing to remove any expelled worms, eggs, debris, etc.  Levamisole is inactivated by organic debris and by light, so dose after lights out and black out the tank for 24 hours, remove organics via water changes and cleaning the bottom of debris as much as possible.

It’s likely that levamisole does what it can do within the first hour, but best to follow directions precisely.  If you have a bare bottom hospital tank available, it might be best and easiest to transfer the fish to that tank for the duration of treatment - up to 5 weeks total treatment time if doing 3 doses of praziquantal.

Levamisole treatment should be weekly for 4 treatments.  Praziquantal treatment should be every other week (at least) for 2-3 treatments and it is left in for a week at a time.  It can be dosed the day after levamisole treatment.  Remove any carbon or Purigen from filters before dosing.

Have enough dechlorinated water to do a 50% water change immediately if any adverse symptoms are seen in the fish.

A typical treatment regimen: 

1. 50% water change with careful siphoning of debris from the bottom of the tank.

2. Dose with levamisole and black out the tank for 24 hours.  Then 50% water change siphoning the entire bottom of the tank.

3. Dose with praziquantal directly after the second 50% WC.

4. One week later, 50% water change siphoning the bottom thoroughly.  Dose with levamisole following directions in step 1-2.

5. One week later (start of week 3 of treatment), repeat all steps 1-4 over another 2 weeks time.

6. Repeat all steps 1-5, then do last WC one week later after third dose of praziquantal.

Not all snails will tolerate treatments, so best to remove any snails in the tank.

 

Condensed, weekly schedule:

Week 1: siphon debris and do 50% water change, levamisole x 24 hrs, siphon.  Treat with praziquantal and leave in until next week.

Week 2: siphon, levam x 24 hrs, siphon.

Week 3: siphon, levam x 24 hrs, siphon, then prazi.

Week 4: siphon, levam x 24 hrs, siphon.

Week 5: siphon, levam x 24 hrs, siphon, then prazi.

Week 6: siphon.

Great. Thank you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...