Helena Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Hello! My long fin panda is not doing good. I noticed when I got them that they didn't take with the rest of my other panda Cory's (total 6 normal 2 long fin in a 20long). I would separate the food into different sections of my tank because I thought the issue was them being out competed but they still wouldn't eat. They are significantly smaller than my other pandas even though they were bought at the same time. But I just put it into quarantine because it seemed to be in the same spot for too long and when it swam it was very sporadic and more like "hops". Everyone else in the tank is fine, it is just this little guy. Three days ago I noticed panda Cory eggs. I removed a couple because they started to grow a haze around it and I thought that was bacteria. So maybe it ate a bad egg? Also I can't tell if it has a bad spine or not. What are your thoughts and how should I treat them? (Attached photos of same fish different sizes if that helps diagnose) Ammonia: 0 Nitrite: 0 Nitrate: 15ppm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helena Posted January 10, 2023 Author Share Posted January 10, 2023 Also yesterday I noticed his tail seemed to have a white tuft on it . I thought it was a fungal infection but today it's not there anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabokovfan87 Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 I would do a few things. Is this fish isolated or in the tank with the other fish?@Cinnebuns has some of the long fin pandas. There is also the Panda Appreciation Society here so we have a lot of fun and love our pandas here! This little one looks really emaciated, which is almost always a sign of internal issues, typically parasites preventing the fish from getting nutrients from the food and it slowly dies over time. Secondly you might be dealing with fungal or fin rot issues. If the tuft looks like cotton, then it's likely a fungal infection, but if it appears like fin rot you'd want to use something like kanaplex to treat the fish. Once we have more information we can proceed with advice on course of treatment. What meds do you have on hand, have you done any already? Things that would be beneficial to order and have on hand now: -Kanaplex -Aquarium Salt -Jungle Fizz tabs (or Ich-X) -Paracleanse or General Cure (enough for 3 full treatments) On 1/10/2023 at 2:26 PM, Helena said: They are significantly smaller than my other pandas even though they were bought at the same time. But I just put it into quarantine because it seemed to be in the same spot for too long and when it swam it was very sporadic and more like "hops". Everyone else in the tank is fine, it is just this little guy. Three days ago I noticed panda Cory eggs. I removed a couple because they started to grow a haze around it and I thought that was bacteria. So maybe it ate a bad egg? Also I can't tell if it has a bad spine or not. What are your thoughts and how should I treat them? Do you see any redness on the belly? Scratches? This is likely damage prior to your care and the fish hasn't been able to recover. Because the fish itself was put in with the entire tank (If it hasn't been held in QT the entire time) then I would opt to treat the entire tank and all of the fish in question at this time. Finally, what food are you typically feeding, temperature, and what are the rest of your tank parameters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helena Posted January 11, 2023 Author Share Posted January 11, 2023 (edited) On 1/10/2023 at 4:21 PM, nabokovfan87 said: This little one looks really emaciated, which is almost always a sign of internal issues, typically parasites preventing the fish from getting nutrients from the food and it slowly dies over time. Secondly you might be dealing with fungal or fin rot issues. If the tuft looks like cotton, then it's likely a fungal infection, but if it appears like fin rot you'd want to use something like kanaplex to treat the fish. Yesterday the tuft looked like cotton but it is gone now. I am not sure what happened to it or where it went but now the ends of their tail is see through (as you can see in the first picture I sent. On 1/10/2023 at 4:21 PM, nabokovfan87 said: Do you see any redness on the belly? Scratches? This is likely damage prior to your care and the fish hasn't been able to recover. Because the fish itself was put in with the entire tank (If it hasn't been held in QT the entire time) then I would opt to treat the entire tank and all of the fish in question at this time. I added the two long fins on Nov 25th, they were given to me by my LFS owner because he was transitioning tanks and in the transitioning of his tank he lost some of his pandas so he rehomed them to me. I currently have him floating in a gallon jug in my fishtank because I do not have a quarantine tank or a separate heater/sponge. I gave him a little bit of food and they have not touched it. He is laying on his side and his stomach looks so sunken its sad 😞 On 1/10/2023 at 4:21 PM, nabokovfan87 said: Finally, what food are you typically feeding, temperature, and what are the rest of your tank parameters? PH 7.4 and Temp 76 For food I alternate between frozen blood worms, frozen baby brine shrimp, and Viformo bottom feeder tablets I only feed enough that they can eat within 15 minutes and I alternate between 20% water changes and 40% vacuum every week I also do not have any medication on hand This is his poor little stomach. He doesn't look like he has any external scratches. He is breathing very rapid but he is on his side. All of my other fish seem to be acting normal (all come out for feeding and are shoaling like normal) Edited January 11, 2023 by Helena Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabokovfan87 Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 On 1/10/2023 at 4:44 PM, Helena said: PH 7.4 and Temp 76 For food I alternate between frozen blood worms, frozen baby brine shrimp, and Viformo bottom feeder tablets I only feed enough that they can eat within 15 minutes and I alternate between 20% water changes and 40% vacuum every week Seems to be ok. Temp can go down if that's acceptable, depends on what else is in the tank. On 1/10/2023 at 4:44 PM, Helena said: I currently have him floating in a gallon jug in my fishtank because I do not have a quarantine tank or a separate heater/sponge. I gave him a little bit of food and they have not touched it. He is laying on his side and his stomach looks so sunken its sad 😞 Understood, I would generally use a bucket or something external to the tank in future. Even a big piece of plastic tupperware, a bin, anything will work that you have. Being clear is a plus, but that's not required. Do you have filtration going to the jug? I'm not sure how the fish is getting water or air? On 1/10/2023 at 4:44 PM, Helena said: I also do not have any medication on hand This is his poor little stomach. He doesn't look like he has any external scratches. He is breathing very rapid but he is on his side. All of my other fish seem to be acting normal (all come out for feeding and are shoaling like normal) Given where the fish is now, unfortunately I don't think it will survive treatment. It is a possibility that it could get through and bounce back, but given everything going on I would lean towards euthanizing the fish. Being on it's side is usually a pretty severe sign and most fish don't recover from that. If the fish doesn't have an airstone, it needs one as well as fresh water. One of the main causes of fin rot is going to be poor water quality, ammonia burn, and poor water quality. We need to make sure this one has a comfortable place to try to recover, has air and clean water at a minimum. If you don't have any way to QT the fish, or if you are out of options as far as meds go, then I would again suggest euthanasia so that the fish is no longer suffering. I understand meds can be expensive, aquarium salt is generally very cheap. Having 2-3 items on hand can save a lot of your investment in fish. Just something to keep in mind and hopefully you're able to have some stuff on hand in case you run into any future issues. I apologize for the unfortunate news, I understand what you're going through and you have my sympathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnebuns Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 On 1/10/2023 at 4:26 PM, Helena said: They are significantly smaller than my other pandas Are they the same age? Long fin pandas are usually larger than standard fin. Do you happen to know the sex of them? Males are also much smaller than females. On 1/10/2023 at 4:26 PM, Helena said: when it swam it was very sporadic and more like "hops". Like up and down off and on the substrate? They do this sometimes and I don't think it's a concern. On 1/10/2023 at 4:26 PM, Helena said: I removed a couple because they started to grow a haze around it and I thought that was bacteria The haze is fungus growth from the egg being infertile. I don't think this is a concern. Silly me I typed that out before reading all the comments. I agree 100% with everything @nabokovfan87said. I'm sorry for your loss but in this case I would euthanize. Its likely it had something before it got to you. Was it ever in the same water as your other fish? If so I would treat the tank. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helena Posted January 11, 2023 Author Share Posted January 11, 2023 Update: I was able to go to the store and get some clove oil to put down the little guy. May he swim in peace. That being said. I did notice this morning his tail had started to turn more translucent and there was a film on it. The bits on it are excess food I left in hopes of him eating some but that did not happen. All of my other fish (6 normal pandas, 1 long fin, 4 khulis, and 5 zebra Danios) are all acting normal and show no signs of struggle (all eating normally, active, and social). Should I treat my whole tank or do you think what got this little guy was prior care illness? If I should treat my whole tank: what medication should I look into? I have no idea how to diagnose what got this little guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabokovfan87 Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 On 1/11/2023 at 6:53 AM, Helena said: Should I treat my whole tank or do you think what got this little guy was prior care illness? If I should treat my whole tank: what medication should I look into? I have no idea how to diagnose what got this little guy. Get some aquarium salt to have on hand as well as kanaplex and paracleanse would be recommended. We're still trying to understand the situation and so it's difficult to answer. Was the panda in the floating container getting water from the tank? Was water from it's container put into the tank? Then yes, it's a risk what was on one fish went to the others. That panda was struggling and it doesn't mean the others will show any issues. Monitor things right now. Especially fins for fin rot. Bloating, sunken belly, listlessness is the others id watch for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helena Posted January 11, 2023 Author Share Posted January 11, 2023 On 1/11/2023 at 8:56 AM, nabokovfan87 said: Was the panda in the floating container getting water from the tank? Was water from it's container put into the tank? Then yes, it's a risk what was on one fish went to the others. That panda was struggling and it doesn't mean the others will show any issues. Monitor things right now. Especially fins for fin rot. The panda was placed in the floating container using water from the tank and was given an airstone. Since it was just a container there was no filter to the water. Once the fish was laid to rest I did not pour the water back into the tank. That being said, I did notice suspicious activity from it 30~ hours prior to being quarantined. (suspicious activity being it avoiding food even when presented in front of it and then the white tuft on the fin) I will go and buy aquarium salt, kanaplex and paracleanse. I am also going to do a water change and vacuum just Incase I need to start treating 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabokovfan87 Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 In terms of the equipment. Clean the air stone and stuff as well. Replace the airline tubing that was used. It's very likely some water made it into the tank, but for now just monitor things. As mentioned, clean water. Low nitrates is a good way to fight fin issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Gumby Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 Never good when you lose a fish I'd be tempted to treat the whole tank for internal parasites and an anti-bacterial/fungal as well, here in the UK I use esha meds but can't comment on the US. Going forward it wouldn't be a bad idea to drop the temps down to low 70's/20's as the panda's and the danios will be a bit more comfortable, fairly sure Kuhli's are ok at lower temps as well. Added bonus you'll use less energy heating the tank and depending how warm you keep your house you may be able to lose the heater all together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helena Posted January 14, 2023 Author Share Posted January 14, 2023 (edited) I did a 30% water change yesterday but I noticed that there are small bubble on the top of my water. This is on the opposite side of my air bubbler and I do not usually have bubbles on the top of my tank. Given that I just had a fish die from something I am not sure, does anyone know if this is a cause for alarm? I have bought aquarium salt, kanaplex and paracleanse but it has yet to come in. All of my fish are acting normal still. But is this a cause for alarm? Also I did notice that I buried the fish who died but in the little floating container I left it out on my counter for a day or so and when I came looked back, the floating plants I put in it (I thought it would be less harsh and stressful if I blocked some light) had a white film around the roots. I threw the plants away, got a new airstone and changed out the airline tubing but it was weird. I'm not sure if that's normal after a fish dies Edited January 14, 2023 by Helena Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 (edited) Foam or bubbles at the surface can be a sign of ammonia I would test your water parameters @Helena Edited January 14, 2023 by Colu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helena Posted January 14, 2023 Author Share Posted January 14, 2023 On 1/13/2023 at 4:42 PM, Colu said: Foam or bubbles at the surface can be a sign of ammonia I would test your water parameters I thought that too but my parameters are still: Ammonia: 0 ppm Nitrate: 10 ppm Nitrite: 0 ppm (I am using the API liquid drops and I made sure to "wash" the tubes with a paper towel and damp ro water prior to testing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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