Stupid question about a bloated betta

[eyeebrows]

Hello again 🙃

I have a question sort of for my own peace of mind to figure out if I'm doing something wrong or not.

TLDR how long does it take a poop filled fish to clear out and no longer be so round? Or am I missing something?

Leviathan's been bloated for just over 2 weeks. I've done epsom salt baths, I fasted, I'm feeding daphnia (I finally found frozen just in case the freeze dried was causing ANY problems), and I know for a fact he's been pooping at least somewhat because I can get him to flare up and poop. Some of the poops have been large and some normal. 

For context (in my last post), he injured himself and had to be moved to a hospital tank right after stealing a load of snail food. My guess originally was he didn't poop everything out yet and having less space to keep things moving he eventually became constipated. But I don't understand why he's still so round? 

There's no pineconing and none of the poops are white or stringy or suggest worms. 

[nabokovfan87]

I would call that abdominal swelling / pineconing.  You're likely dealing with a bacterial and / or internal parasite issue.  I would treat with kanaplex for dropsy and proceed with treatment for internal parasites. 

You can stagger these.  There's a few things of note, but just a general methodology would be as follows.

1. Initial treatment of kanaplex following the directions on the package.  Decide if you want to add in some aquarium salt or continue the epsom salt baths (don't do both).

2.  Add an airstone if you dose meds, it helps with oxygenation in the water and general stress.  Also consider adding Indian Almond leaves / cattappa leaves.

3.  Once that treatment is done you'll likely need to take a break and let the fish rest.  This is where you take 3-7 days off and monitor things.  You then proceed with a second dose of the bacterial meds prior to dosing something for worms.

Notes:  Keep in mind that you want to verify the betta is eating food, but food is not great right now given the abdominal issues and swelling.  The injury / pressure on the stomach, adding to that pressure is where I would suggest sticking to only spirulina flakes or brine shrimp.  One feeding every other day.


In terms of your treatment for worms, again, give the fish some time.  Start with paracleanse and then keep an eye on the waste.  You'll want to run a minimum of 2 full treatments, preferably 3.  Space each treatment 7-14 days apart to give the internal parasites time to hatch and or develop to be fought off by the meds. 

The tank itself that was housing the fish do a very, very good cleaning on the substrate and check for worms on the equipment, glass, and substrate.

[eyeebrows]

On 12/28/2022 at 4:54 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I would call that abdominal swelling / pineconing. 

Thank you for responding.

Just to clarify, is it still pineconing when there aren't any raised scales? I had always read they needed to be raised to be considered, which isn't the case here. 

Besides swelling I see no other symptoms consistent with dropsy. He's active, has an appetite, no odd swimming or resting behavior, and no raised scales which is why I was suspecting this was still the aftermath of constipation?

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/28/2022 at 5:21 PM, eyeebrows said:

Thank you for responding.

Just to clarify, is it still pineconing when there aren't any raised scales? I had always read they needed to be raised to be considered, which isn't the case here. 

Besides swelling I see no other symptoms consistent with dropsy. He's active, has an appetite, no odd swimming or resting behavior, and no raised scales which is why I was suspecting this was still the aftermath of constipation?

Bloating that bad is usually not a great sign.  I see "enlarged" scales which looks like pineconing to me.   Because of the pattern on the fish being pretty dark, maybe it's difficult to tell, but you can see the bloat and that's basically one step away from some pretty severe conditions.  Especially given your statement about it's poops, you've been doing the right things by giving it time to flush it's system out.  Usually someone would give the fish a 5-7 day break from food and if that doesn't do anything, then you are going to proceed with other methods, bacterial issues, and parasitic internal issues.

[AllFishNoBrakes]

Have you already medicated him/quarantined with meds when you first got him? As much as I respect @nabokovfan87 and what they do to help everyone, I’m not sure I would agree that it’s pineconing/dropsy. 
 

If you really think it’s constipation, I would consider fasting for a couple days and then trying a feeding or two of peas. 

[eyeebrows]

On 12/28/2022 at 8:04 PM, AllFishNoBrakes said:

Have you already medicated him/quarantined with meds when you first got him? As much as I respect @nabokovfan87 and what they do to help everyone, I’m not sure I would agree that it’s pineconing/dropsy. 
 

If you really think it’s constipation, I would consider fasting for a couple days and then trying a feeding or two of peas. 

I also don't think it's pineconing or dropsy, it doesn't fit. 

I think it's been constipation based on the size of some of the poops and that there was a couple days without pooping. I'm just confused why he's still rotund because I've been making sure he's pooped at least some. Also fed any tempting snail food out of reach since then. 

I've had him for 5 months I believe. He's been through medications because turns out he was just beginning to get ich when I adopted him from a lady 🙃 he also dealt with constipation and SBD during that. 

[Goldie Blue]

Have you tried giving him peas? That looks like more than constipation/bloating. Do you think it could be a tumor?

[eyeebrows]

On 12/29/2022 at 1:12 PM, Goldie Blue said:

Have you tried giving him peas? That looks like more than constipation/bloating. Do you think it could be a tumor?

I've been giving him daphnia instead, I've read/been told so many mixed things on peas. 

Tumor crossed my mind but the bloating was sudden. Now that I'm thinking about it, I gave him some frozen blood worms for the first time as a treat and the constipation and bloating started right after. I can confirm he's able to poop and his stomach isn't getting any bigger but it isn't getting any smaller. He's acting 100% normal too. 

I'm going to do another round of fasting and epsom salt baths and see where we get. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Daphnia is a better option.

[Goldie Blue]

On 12/29/2022 at 4:36 PM, eyeebrows said:

I'm going to do another round of fasting and epsom salt baths and see where we get. 

I really hope the lil guy starts feeling better. That is a big belly, he has to be feeling miserable. 

On 12/29/2022 at 4:49 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

Daphnia is a better option.

I never knew about the daphnia, I will keep that in mind next time my boys get stopped up. 

[eyeebrows]

On 12/29/2022 at 3:49 PM, Goldie Blue said:

I really hope the lil guy starts feeling better. That is a big belly, he has to be feeling miserable. 

He's surprisingly still extremely active, social, giving me "the look" for food. All things he stops when he isn't feeling well, so that's why I'm so stumped. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

On 12/29/2022 at 3:49 PM, Goldie Blue said:

daphnia

When it comes to Betta, they are carnivores, so it's best to use daphnia in this case. I've used peas in the past but I've found the daphnia works much better with them. I've used freeze dried and it works good. 

Edited December 30, 2022 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[eyeebrows]

Update just in case anyone sees or has input on this:

Hes still rotund after 3 kanaplex doses. Got a bigger hospital tank that he's back in for the kanaplex, and I'm doing daily epsom salt baths. Also feeding frozen daphnia. Yesterday he started making a tiny bubble nest, today I came home to him pooping out a decent amount considering I've only given a smaller amount of daphnia.

Is there a chance he could've been..half constipated? Im wondering if something was stuck in there but not enough to fully stop everything. At this point it might just be a tumor honestly 🤷‍♀️ but he isn't pineconing so I'm thankful for that. 

Added a photo of how round he was the other day. I don't think much has changed but I've started at him so much I don't even know. 

[Any Huit]

On 1/4/2023 at 11:46 PM, eyeebrows said:

Update just in case anyone sees or has input on this:

Hes still rotund after 3 kanaplex doses. Got a bigger hospital tank that he's back in for the kanaplex, and I'm doing daily epsom salt baths. Also feeding frozen daphnia. Yesterday he started making a tiny bubble nest, today I came home to him pooping out a decent amount considering I've only given a smaller amount of daphnia.

Is there a chance he could've been..half constipated? Im wondering if something was stuck in there but not enough to fully stop everything. At this point it might just be a tumor honestly 🤷‍♀️ but he isn't pineconing so I'm thankful for that. 

Added a photo of how round he was the other day. I don't think much has changed but I've started at him so much I don't even know. 

Hi eyeebrows,

Do you have any updates to share?

Im asking bc I'm in a very similar boat! My blue female betta looks exactly the same for 1 month now. I've tried kanaplex - both putting it in the water & feeding it with frozen daphnia - epsom salt baths, and now maracyn II. I've changed the water and added tannins. Nothing I do seems to be working! I've fasted her for 5 days, took a break to feed her frozen brine shrimp and daphnia and soaked hikari pellets (only 2 at a time), and then fasted again. She's acting very normal, she enjoys swimming around her 10 gallon a lot and still has a big appetite, the only issue is I cannot see if she's pooped. 

I haven't used paracleanse yet, I need to do a water change today, and then I can start treating for that too?

Here's a zoomed in picture of her sunbathing.

Does anyone else have any suggestions??

[eyeebrows]

On 1/12/2023 at 4:30 AM, Any Huit said:

Hi eyeebrows,

Do you have any updates to share?

Im asking bc I'm in a very similar boat! My blue female betta looks exactly the same for 1 month now. I've tried kanaplex - both putting it in the water & feeding it with frozen daphnia - epsom salt baths, and now maracyn II. I've changed the water and added tannins. Nothing I do seems to be working! I've fasted her for 5 days, took a break to feed her frozen brine shrimp and daphnia and soaked hikari pellets (only 2 at a time), and then fasted again. She's acting very normal, she enjoys swimming around her 10 gallon a lot and still has a big appetite, the only issue is I cannot see if she's pooped. 

I haven't used paracleanse yet, I need to do a water change today, and then I can start treating for that too?

Here's a zoomed in picture of her sunbathing.

Does anyone else have any suggestions??

Hey! I can kind of explain anything I've done recently and maybe it can help. 

So in-between my last update and now, after finishing the kanaplex, overnight one day he developed a fuzzy hole in his tale and the end bit fell off because of course there had to be another issue. I've stopped the Epsom salt baths to do aquarium salt for whatever fin rot suddenly decided to appear, added even more Indian almond leaves and doing daily 25% water changes. 

I don't know if it's coincidence or not but he's slowly starting to do better. He's still round, but it isn't as bad. I'm alternating frozen daphnia with the occasional frozen brine shrimp and he's pooping more regularly. (Sometimes it's even more than once a day now). That being said, his poops are still usually on the larger side, kinda almost oval? Idk how to explain it. 

My advice is get a hospital tank and don't put any substrate in it so you can monitor anything on the ground. Also holding a mirror up until they flare will sometimes cause them to poop and then you can watch and guarantee it's happening. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@eyeebrows you might have more answers here, particularly in what @Odd Ducksays. Not all good news but a possibility 

Overweight Betta?