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Do we over filter?


Up North
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I have been thinking about filters and started to wonder if we over do it.  Does the little biological media we put in our filters make a difference?  We put 80lbs of gravel in a 55 gallon aquarium then think a few pounds of media in the filter makes a difference.   Many just run a sponge filter and their tanks are just fine.   Did we all fall for a huge filter scam?   What are your thoughts? 

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Yeah, I don’t worry too much about bio filtration in my planted tanks, I think I could get rid of the filter but I do like the flow and convenience a power filter offers. I like to be able to add some floss or Purigen when I need it and I like that it removes detritus and I like having some cycled media at the ready for new tanks. 

On 12/23/2022 at 2:46 PM, lefty o said:

id say for the average hobbyist, its virtually impossible to over filter a tank. what most run into long before that is way too much water movement.

That’s the best way to put it. You can’t really have too much bio filtration but you might have power filters providing too much flow. 

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I believe patience is the key And of course not overstocking. We make mistakes when we get in a rush. So... time and self-control, not getting too many fish. If you have a filter It's more than likely enough.That being said part of the fun of fish keeping is the tinkering, try new things adjusting, and all the things we learn along the way.

So I guess the answer is yes, I'm sure we're over filtering. I do not believe the over filtering is going to hurt and it's part of the fun.

Edited by Goldfishgirl
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I agree with getting water movement from the filter and the ability to polish the water from a filter.  I guess the question is can a tanks only support so much bacteria? If there is only X amount ammonia in the tank will the bacteria only grow to consume that amount of ammonia?  Do we just spread out the bacteria by having tons of media?

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On 12/23/2022 at 2:28 PM, Up North said:

We put 80lbs of gravel in a 55 gallon aquarium then think a few pounds of media in the filter makes a difference.   Many just run a sponge filter and their tanks are just fine.   Did we all fall for a huge filter scam?   What are your thoughts? 

A few things at play here that are pretty relevant. 

1.  What is the composition of the substrate and the tank, is it planted, etc.?
2.  What is the bioload and feeding schedule?
3.  What is the filtration method, what types of media, and how is it setup?

I've had tanks with nothing by a small sponge filter, even some with a sponge and a ziss bubble bio.  I have also had bigger tanks with.... 5 filters running.  There's a logic and a reason for ease use case, sometimes it makes sense, sometimes it doesn't.  I'm not going to hook up an FX6 on a 5G nano tank.  If I see the fish literally pushed against the glass and unable to swim, that's an issue as well.  There is a balance between "crystal clear" water, mulm, and what the fish want. 

I have one tank right now that has one filter and a pumphead and it's like looking into a pane of glass.  I have another tank that has two sponge filters and the water is much worse in terms of clarity.  It doesn't mean one is better or worse. They have different water opaqueness factors and that's really the difference. 

I have a preference to have some ceramic media in my tanks.  Be it hardscape, substrate, or in the filter itself, I find that it gives me a more stable system and less issues.  It also definitely isn't perfect and I have had good filters not work because of bioload issues. 

On 12/23/2022 at 2:28 PM, Up North said:

We put 80lbs of gravel in a 55 gallon aquarium then think a few pounds of media in the filter makes a difference. 

Location, flow, and oxygenation is what matters between these two scenarios you're describing.

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I think you want as much area for bacteria as possible. I think it’s how you set filters up and how you maintain them. I still think one of the best filtration methods is the UGF. I have lots of tanks and the only one I like more is my sumps but that’s really feasible for most people or tanks. Now do I think as a hobby  we probably are able to filter more water than we need to to keep a healthy aquarium. If your tank is as close to an inclosed ecosystem and not a glass box with fish in you can have less filters/smaller running if that makes since(spelling). 

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On 12/23/2022 at 4:28 PM, Up North said:

Did we all fall for a huge filter scam?   What are your thoughts?

I am going to interpret your comments not as the standard "how much filtration do I need?" question that forums get often, but as are we being duped into thinking we need more filtration than necessary.  I think it's an interesting question.  And as always, I'd say the answer depends.

If you want to frame it as can tanks be done without specific biofiltration equipment, then the answer is absolutely!  There are great example of folks doing precisely that on this forum.

But does that mean all of the biofilter equipment is a scam?  I'd argue not.  I think in most cases, most aquarists, with find that specific equipment for biofiltration is beneficial to their success.  I think of it as a means by which the aquarist can take control of a core process in the tank.  They have a spot to focus their attention, and an easy means to manipulate attributes of their filtration.  For new aquariums, it allows people to meet the waste processing needs more quickly, and as the aquarist advances it allows them to learn and experiment about this process if they choose.  The larger area, and optimal conditions also give a buffer against perturbations, such as when medications may impact the process.  Plus it provides space for heterotrophic bacteria, which are often under appreciated in an aquarium.

Can you have too much flow?  Sure, depending on the species!  Can you have too much biofiltration?  Probably not a concern.  Is it a scam?...  Most aren't.  Canister filters, are another story in my mind though.

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@Up North touched on this above. Imagine a 55 gallon tank with a single betta that is not overfed. The biological processes in that simple setup set a real and hard limit on how much beneficial bacteria can exist in the system. No amount of additional filtration or filter media or ceramic or whatever is going to allow for more beneficial bacteria to occur. This simply isn’t a case of build it and they will come. 

So yes, I do think that sometimes tanks are over filtered. Or rather, unnecessarily filtered.

What filters do, better than a simple glass box with water, substrate, and other furnishings, is they bring an immobile prey to an immobile predator. The prey being ammonia molecules, and the predators being the beneficial bacteria. Canisters do this really well for larger volumes of water, hobs do it for smaller volumes. Sponge filters do it by pulling water through the sponge. Even a simple airstone or powerhead will increase the occurrence of predators encountering prey, by moving the water in the tank.

So, taking the 55 gallon tank example, if you add a reasonable amount of fish and other livestock, and feed them appropriately, then add a filter that both creates an ideal home for the predators, and brings the prey to them regularly and consistently, of course that’s where the highest number of predators are going to reside. Remember, the beneficial bacteria are a population of competing organisms just like anything else. They will be distributed in all areas of the tank, including the glass, the substrate, decorations, plant leaves, and of course, in the filter. But their distribution in the tank will favour areas that can host the highest populations. I.e. they won’t occur everywhere in the same density. So, the overall population of beneficial bacteria in this hypothetical 55 gallon tank will be the same whether you have a filter or not. Assuming it’s “cycled“. The difference is where those bacteria reside, which in turn creates or results in a number of conditions that the fish keeper can choose from. Do you want high flow, or still water? Do you want mechanical filtration? Does the rate of flow affect what critters you keep? 

Edited by TOtrees
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On 12/23/2022 at 11:33 PM, rockfisher said:

I think you want as much area for bacteria as possible. I think it’s how you set filters up and how you maintain them. I still think one of the best filtration methods is the UGF. 

Ditto!    I’ve kept fish for decades running nothing but an UGF.  If I thought I was overstocked, I’d add a HOB for additional capacity.   Unfortunately, they’ve fallen out of favor, and in my opinion HOBs with all the replaceable cartridges are both a money grab and a set up to fail for unsuspecting hobbyists who believe they have to replace the cartridges monthly.      When I upgraded my 30 to the 45H, the owner of the lfs actually scoffed at me when I said I wanted an UGF for it, and he didn’t have any in the shop.   Not to be deterred, I pulled the UGF out of the 30, and it covers 2/3 of the bottoms of the 45H.   I added a HOB to offset the difference.   The lfs guy thinks I’m crazy, but whatever.   I felt slightly vindicated when I was in there last week and he had some UGFs in stock for smaller tanks.

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@Tactical Errornow you’ve got me wanting to setup a tank with an UGF again. Only this time with a better knowledge of what I’m doing (in theory😉). You crazy kids will probably talk me into an old school box filter if I’m not careful “ Let’s see how this works….”. 

Edited by Birdsnstuff
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On 12/24/2022 at 2:52 PM, Birdsnstuff said:

@Tactical Errornow you’ve got me wanting to setup a tank with an UGF again. Only this time with a better knowledge of what I’m doing (in theory😉). You crazy kids will probably talk me into an old school box filter if I’m not careful “ Let’s see how this works….”. 

DO IT!!!!   (Yeah, I know, I am not the voice of reason.).  I have an empty 10 that I’m just itching to set up, once I decide what’s going to go in it, and that’s going to run on nothing but an UGF.

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I have lots of tanks and do lots of things with them, including the UGF in several. I have a breeding tank L-333 that I use power heads on the lifts for the extra water flow. So if you are considering a UGF and concerned about flow you can go with the powerheads. I personally would start with the smallest you can and move up. There is also an addition of a wave maker if you need the flow and want flow. If you are just looking to go as low tech as possible I love it but i true believe I have less maintenance. UGF are all over the internet and if you are handy you can make one if you so choose. YouTube of course has ideas ifs really up to you on what you believe about what they say. A basic kit works great. 

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