Another Jake Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 Tank: 20L, Planted, hang-on-back with sponges and bio-media, air stone, 75F, almost no algae. pH: 7.5 | Ammonia: 0 | Nitrite: 0 | Nitrate: 20 | KH: 5 | GH: 9 For the last few days, I've had about a single death per day... Cardinal Tetras, CPDs, and Ember Tetras... It's random. No visible symptoms like ich or fungus. Just each morning I'm finding one fish at the bottom either obviously struggling to live or dead and being eaten by shrimp. ...The shrimp are doing great. Right now I have one Ember that might be breathing fast. All the other fish seem fine. The CPDs are even doing that little dance that they do with each other. Please let me know what you think I should do. Should I treat the tank and just hope it's something unseen? Is 20 too high for nitrates for these fish? It's not spiking anything. It's all very steady. I feed a mix of flakes, bug bites, frozen daphnia, live baby brine, and occasionally dried tubifex worms. I don't think I'm over feeding, but I could be wrong. Any help is much appreciated. The schools are down to their minimum numbers now and I'm not adding anything until this is sorted out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Cory Posted November 1, 2020 Administrators Share Posted November 1, 2020 Nothing stands out so far. Do you have a picture of the tank? Maybe we'll see something on the fish? When was the last time you changed water? I'm not advocating you need to, just trying to get the whole picture. 20ppm nitrates should be no problem at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Jake Posted November 1, 2020 Author Share Posted November 1, 2020 CORRECTION! Spots! I don't know how I missed it. I could swear they weren't there hours ago. It's a bad picture, because they're small, but that dot on the tail. I'm now seeing about 5 spots on most of the fish. No idea how this got in the tank. It's been weeks since I added anything other than plants. If it's Ich, I guess that'd explain the sudden deaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Jake Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 It looks like Ich. I'm watching your video right now, but there are not very many spots and they are dying already... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Cory Posted November 2, 2020 Administrators Share Posted November 2, 2020 Well typically ich doesn't kill things suddenly. However stress usually causes ich to break out. This can be one of those things where people don't notice all the things going wrong. For the time being I would be dosing Ich X and following the instructions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Jake Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 I will start the treatment now. I'll try to be really gentle with things for a while. I've made some changes to the tank recently. A few new plants and a new light and lid. The changes might have upset things. I knew these fish are sensitive. Guess I didn't think they were THAT sensitive. Anyway, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Jake Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 Quick follow-up question... I don't have any carbon, and I took out the purigen, but is it ok to have polyfill in the filter while treating with Ich X? The color seems to be clearing fast. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ange Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 It's normal for the color from Ich-X to disappear after it's been added to the water. Polyfill is a physical filter media so won't remove medication from the water. There's a good chance it will be stained by the medication, though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Jake Posted November 3, 2020 Author Share Posted November 3, 2020 This little guy survived the night, but is in even more serious shape this morning, barely able to navigate the mild currents of the tank. Symptoms seemingly coming from nowhere, rapid degradation. Loss of color came overnight. No visible fungus. All other fish well colored and doing fine. I'm including a couple tank pics just to show what it's like. No predators in the tank. Some small number of hydra 😞 but I'll deal with them later. Healthy shrimp, pond snails, some few scuds that tagged along with something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbit Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 That’s a beautiful tank! Is it possible the ich could be a secondary infection? Like Cory said, it will start affecting fish when they’re stressed. One cause of stress could be a bacterial infection or virus or something similar. When my fish have died of ich they’re covered in lots of obvious white spots. I don’t think ich is killing these fish (but if it’s all up in their gills or something it’s possible). Merk manuals describes a few bacterial infections that sound plausible here. In particular it says this about gram positive bacteria: Quote Infections are uncommon but can cause significant mortality (>50%) when they do occur. Chronic infections may continue for weeks, with only a few fish dying each day. ... A characteristic manifestation of Streptococcus infection is neurologic disease, often manifest by spinning or spiraling in the water column. They recommend treatment with erythromycin. Again, I’m no expert but it might be worth a try. Rooting for you and your fishes!! http://www.merckvetmanual.com//favicon.ico Bacterial Diseases of Fish - Exotic and Laboratory Animals - Merck Veterinary Manual WWW.MERCKVETMANUAL.COM Learn about the veterinary topic of Bacterial Diseases of Fish. Find specific details on this topic and related topics from the Merck Vet Manual. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Jake Posted November 3, 2020 Author Share Posted November 3, 2020 Thank you! That bacterial infection possibility does look promising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Jake Posted November 17, 2020 Author Share Posted November 17, 2020 Update: Ick-X at the start, and a full course of Maracyn and ParaCleanse and all deaths and illnesses have stopped. Thank you for the help. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ange Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 So glad to hear! I hope to watch you rack up STT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbit Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 That’s great news!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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