Dechlorinator’s claims to detoxify ammonia

[Pepere]

I remain skeptical of the claim and yet I read so many comments to “be sure to add “x” dechlorinator to bind the ammonia.

 

so, how about an informal and unscientific survey?

 

at what ppm of ammonia do you simply add your favorite brand of dechlorinator to the water and feel confident it is taking care of the problem?

 

at what ppm of ammonia do you say, “ yeah, too high.  I need to do a water change to lower it to x before I trust the dechlorinator to do the trick?

 

Same with Nitrite levels…

 

I will go first.  I never trust dechlorinator to do anything but deal with chlorine and chloramines that is in my tap water I am using to conduct a water change.  Now I keep a close eye if I see either ammonia or nitrite hit 0.5 ppm, and certainly will do a water change if either approach 1 ppm, and that drops it down to roughly 0.5 ppm again and if the added dechlorinator has a benefit, I am happy to have it work on residual ammonia and nitrite levels, even if I dont think it does…. I always use dechlorinator if I do a water change…

If I have residual levels of Ammonia or nitrite I will also add some filter squeezings from another tank…

And further to the point, what dosage do you use to obtain the detoxifying benefit?  Ie do you dose 5mls per 50 gallons, or do you dose the 5 times amount?  Does your dosing vry depending how high the levels are?

 

I am genuinely curious to know how people exactly practice this and what sort of diversity of opinion exists.  Certainly the directions on the bottle does not give a tremendous amount to go on.

Edited December 7, 2022 by Pepere

[gardenman]

I tend to err on the "can't hurt and might help" side of things. If there's an ammonia spike, it's one more tool in the arsenal to try and get things back under control. I wouldn't rely on it exclusively, but it's a tool that could help and shouldn't hurt.

[Guppysnail]

Without getting into the debate of do they work here is my practice. 
Any ammonia or nitrite constitutes an immediate gravel vac and large water change unless it’s a brand new tank I’m setting up. I also count and locate all critters and check all filtration for proper functioning. In tanks as heavily planted as mine with as many emergent plants as I have and mass overfiltration using multiple filter types unless I lose a critter I should not ever have ammonia or nitrite. So when I see it I know I have most likely lost a kid. 
Though I’m confident prime does work for ammonia and nitrite I want to be certain I’m resolving the cause of the spike so it does not repeat. 
 

Edited December 7, 2022 by Guppysnail

[Pepere]

I am sort of in the same camp.  I do a water change with dechlorinator to remove chlorine, chloramine and figure it might help for residual levels…

 

It would certainly engender more confidence in the claimif the label read somewheres along the line of  1 mm added to 10 gallons will reliably bind up to 1 ppm ammonia and 1 ppm nitrite for 24 hours and or provide a graph plotting out the curve of the unbinding of the product over time.   5 ml per 10 gallons reliably binds x ppm… etc…

 

to those who have a protocol of how much you dose for a certain level of ammonia or nitrite, might I ask, how did you come up with that?  What did you base it on?

 

if there is a therapeutic effect, it stands to reason there must be a therapeutic dosage…

On 12/7/2022 at 8:32 AM, Guppysnail said:

Without getting into the debate of do they work here is my practice. 

Right.  I am not looking for a debate as to whether they work but rather what peoples practice is…

so you apparently never rely solely on a dosing of dechlorinator but will do a census, a gravel vac and deep water change… you are only relying on dechlor to bind residual ammonia after having presumably lowered it significantly with the water change.

 

what is your action point for starting such action?

 

myself, I will cut back on feeding volume if I see 0.25 ppm ammonia, and fast for 24 hours if I see 0.5ppm and add filter squeezings.  Anything approaching 1 ppm sees a 50% water change….

[Guppysnail]

On 12/7/2022 at 8:33 AM, Pepere said:

you are only relying on dechlor to bind residual ammonia after having presumably lowered it significantly with the water change.

Yes that is correct. Years ago before I retired though catching a spike on my way out the door for work I did use just Prime or AmQuel and it worked just fine. That is just not my preferred method as it does not find the why it happened. 

On 12/7/2022 at 8:33 AM, Pepere said:

what is your action point for starting such action?

Anything above zero. 

[Pepere]

On 12/7/2022 at 8:41 AM, Guppysnail said:

Anything above zero. 

So, practically speaking, you do not have a very high confidence in the functional ammonia, or nitrite binding capacity attributes of the product.  You follow a belts and suspenders approach a bit more stringent than I do.

Or in other words your confidence extends to brand preference..  ie you use a specific brand because it might help with residual levels…

I will confess to similar in terms of brand preference as the one time I ran out and used a different brand two cories died horribly unpleasant deaths as a result…

Edited December 7, 2022 by Pepere

[Guppysnail]

On 12/7/2022 at 8:44 AM, Pepere said:

So, practically speaking, you do not have a very high confidence in the functional ammonia, or nitrite binding capacity attributes of the product.  You follow a belts and suspenders approach a bit more stringent than I do.

I do have complete confidence in the binding qualities. Most of the old timer veteran aquarists I know and people WAY smarter than me have had to use it like that in a pinch at some point and have had success. I just know my tanks and if I see ammonia or nitrite I have a malfunctioning filter or have lost a kid so I know the problem will continue if I don’t fix it. 

On 12/7/2022 at 8:44 AM, Pepere said:

You follow a belts and suspenders approach

Yup that’s me. That’s why I use multiple filter types in each tank. I really hate when my pants fall down 🤣

Edited December 7, 2022 by Guppysnail

[Pepere]

My point was that it would have to be an extreme event where you simply could not take the time to do a water change to simply add dechlor on the way out the door and rely on that.

 

I would add dechlor alone is a similar extreme situation that I had no time to do anything else, but only in such an extreme situation…

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 12/7/2022 at 8:59 AM, Pepere said:

My point was that it would have to be an extreme event where you simply could not take the time to do a water change to simply add dechlor on the way out the door and rely on that.

 

I would add dechlor alone is a similar extreme situation that I had no time to do anything else, but only in such an extreme situation…

I remember the original discussion on this (over on another thread) was that someone was in the middle of a course of meds and had an ammonia spike.  Doing a water change and redosing meds can lead to med overdose, because new meds going in would be more potent that the meds that were already in the tank, and that can be really hard on the fish.

It was not a matter of someone not taking the time, or not wanting to take the time, to do a water change.

[Pepere]

On 12/7/2022 at 3:23 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

remember the original discussion on this (over on another thread

Clearly an argument could be made that this is another extenuating circumstance.

 

but, I am most interested in hearing how other people use dechlorinators for treating ammonia and nitrite issues.  
 

what level of spike will they feel comfortable using dechlorinators instead of water changes.  What dose they use for what particular levels, how often to redose…

 

as mentioned the direction on the bottles give exceedingly little to go on in this regard.   It would be one thing if you could test after treatment and see a result and then know if you needed to dose more or when to dose or if the makers provided more guidance..

 

 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

From Seachem.com:

Use 1 capful (5 mL) for each 200 L (50 US gallons) of new water. For smaller volumes, please note each cap thread is approximately 1 mL. May be added to aquarium directly, but better if added to new water first. If adding directly to aquarium, base dose on aquarium volume. Sulfur odor is normal. For exceptionally high chloramine concentrations, a double dose may be used safely. To detoxify nitrite in an emergency, up to 5 times normal dose may be used. If temperature is > 30 °C (86 °F) and chlorine or ammonia levels are low, use a half dose.

TThisi

This really is pretty vague.  What constitutes an emergency?  What do they consider a low level of chlorine or ammonia?  What is a high level of chloramine?  It really doesn't specify.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]