Fully Cycled?

[Helena]

Hello! I have been trying to cycle my tank and have been met with ups and downs. On Nov 7th my water parameters were:
Ammonia: .25 ppm

Nitrite: 0ppm

Nitrate: 10 ppm

I was advised to get some White Cloud minnows to help it cycle before adding my fish (Panda Cory, Columbia Zebra Pleco, and Zebra Danios Fry). On Nov 14th my ammonia spiked to be .5 ppm so I did a 50% water change (RO water in a 20 long). After that water change my Nitrate barely read anything. My local fish store gave me some live bacteria on Sunday (Nov 20th) to help my cycle along and now my water reads:

Ammonia: .25 ppm

Nitrate:0 ppm

Nitrate: 15 ppm

Should I wait until the ammonia reads 0 or would it be okay to add my fish now? Thanks!

[JettsPapa]

Hello,

It's my understanding that 0.25 ppm is within the margin of error, so as long as it isn't any higher than that I'd say go ahead and add a few fish.  Keep a close eye on parameters for a week or so, then add a few more.  Repeat until you're fully stocked.

[Helena]

On 11/22/2022 at 12:25 PM, JettsPapa said:

Repeat until you're fully stocked.

I have 6 Panda Cory (each about half an inch to an inch from nose to fin), 1 Pleco (3 inches long), and 5 zebra danio fry (they're about 2 months old). Is that too many to add all at once?

[nabokovfan87]

@Helenahello, welcome to the forum.  Can I ask about how your filter is setup?  You mentioned you have a white cloud? Is it jut one fish?

I am trying to figure out why you're still seeing the ammonia and potentially there is some things that can do for the fish you're wanting to keep.

Let's talk through it and then decide on what's causing the readings, when to add fish, what to add, etc.

On 11/22/2022 at 12:38 PM, Helena said:

I have 6 Panda Cory (each about half an inch to an inch from nose to fin), 1 Pleco (3 inches long), and 5 zebra danio fry (they're about 2 months old). Is that too many to add all at once?

Are they all in one tank now for QT or where are those fish intended for this tank?

[Helena]

On 11/22/2022 at 2:56 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

hello, welcome to the forum.  Can I ask about how your filter is setup?  You mentioned you have a white cloud? Is it jut one fish?

I am trying to figure out why you're still seeing the ammonia and potentially there is some things that can do for the fish you're wanting to keep.

Let's talk through it and then decide on what's causing the readings, when to add fish, what to add, etc.

I have a 20 long with a Penguin 150 bio wheel filter. In it I have a carbon filter and a Purigen pack. I think the spike in ammonia was because of over feeding. I am used to my Corys picking up what the danios miss. I have 5 white clouds in my tank as of right now and I think I added too much for for their tiny mouths. My local fish store is housing my fish (6 Panda Cory, 1 Columbia Zebra Pleco, 5 Danio fry and one mystery snail) while I wait for my tank to cycle and they were the ones who let me borrow the white clouds to make sure everything is okay. The minnows seem to be good but I know corys are more sensitive to ammonia and they are the ones I am most concerned about. When I saw the high ammonia I did a dose of Prime to detoxify it, did my 50% water change (vacuum graveled and found some left over food which is why I suspect over feeding caused the ammonia spike) and it was a couple days after that that I noticed my nitrates weren't reading. Today my parameters read:

Ammonia: .25 ppm

Nitrate:0 ppm

Nitrate: 15 ppm

I am using the liquid API master test kit. I had to do a complete reset of my tank due to an insane drain fly infestation.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Helena

[Helena]

I have plants in there and they seem to be thriving. I have a couple anubias and I can see them growing new leaves but my ammonia level is still reading which is what is puzzling me. The only fertilizer I have used is the easy green but from what I have read in the bottle it does not seem like it should affect my ammonia. The substrate I am using is Seachem Flourite Black Clay Gravel and white pool sand

[nabokovfan87]

Something in there has to be causing the ammonia. Rotting fish or food.  I would check everything really well. 

That being said there's a lot to unpack moving forward so that you have success.  Is your penguin filter "modded" or are you using cartridges?

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea Do you have the video of yours all setup you can share?

[Helena]

On 11/22/2022 at 7:46 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Is your penguin filter "modded" or are you using cartridges?

I am using the carriage and I have added a purigen packet. There might be some stray fish food rotting somewhere but I can't see it easily and would need to vacuum gravel. I just don't want to crash my unstable cycle. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/22/2022 at 8:08 PM, Helena said:

I am using the carriage and I have added a purigen packet. There might be some stray fish food rotting somewhere but I can't see it easily and would need to vacuum gravel. I just don't want to crash my unstable cycle. 

Right.  So long term you're going to have cycle issues using the cartridges.  Replacing that with foam is your best option.  There's a ton of videos on it, but I would suggest getting some aquaclear sponge and cutting that to fit as you need to.
 

Here is a thread that shows off some final results people have put together 🙂

 

This should be applicable to your filter 🙂

 

[Schuyler]

I would be wary of adding all those fish in if there's still a consistent ammonia reading.

Especially since plecos the to have a heavier bio load. I would add them in waves rather than all at once.

Last thing you would want us to add all the fish and suddenly have a huge ammonia spike that causes a collapse.

[Helena]

On 11/22/2022 at 8:15 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

So long term you're going to have cycle issues using the cartridges

Thank you I will definitely save those sources. For my birthday my parents got me a lot of "fish supplies" and in that care pack was a years worth of the company supplied cartridges. I figured I would use them since I have them but when I run out I will definitely be switching. I do have a prefilter sponge which I have found has helped with the overall clarity of my water 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Helena

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/22/2022 at 9:23 PM, Helena said:

Thank you I will definitely save those sources. For my birthday my parents got me a lot of "fish supplies" and in that care pack was a years worth of the company supplied cartridges. I figured I would use them since I have them but when I run out I will definitely be switching 

Awesome.  It's absolutely perfectly fine to use them, but you'll want to add something like a little bag of ceramic media or sponge as well to better support bacteria in the high flow areas.  I would suggest a small bag of biomax at minimum to add to the filter after the cartridge:

The little bag for the Aquaclear 30 should be more than adequate and just about everyone has their over version.  the bag for the tidal 35 is pretty fancy / nice and you can use the bag if you ever replace the media, want to add more, etc.

You can also add a good size piece of sponge too if you can fit it in there somewhere.

Edited November 23, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Helena]

I just did a light vacuum of my gravel to get any food that might be decaying but I couldn't find any pieces. The only thing that I could think about causing ammonia would be this Nana petite. I have two and one of them isn't looking as good as the other. Does it look like it's decaying? Or is it just slow growing?

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 11/22/2022 at 10:46 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

 

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea Do you have the video of yours all setup you can share?

 

Using coarse sponge, floss, and ceramics. What you see on the right is old media. I left that in there when changing out the other media so I’d still have bacteria.

 

I have since taken those old sponges on the right (intake) out, and now I have an additional pouch of ceramics sitting there.

On 11/22/2022 at 11:15 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Right.  So long term you're going to have cycle issues using the cartridges.  Replacing that with foam is your best option.  There's a ton of videos on it, but I would suggest getting some aquaclear sponge and cutting that to fit as you need to.
 

Here is a thread that shows off some final results people have put together 🙂

 

This should be applicable to your filter 🙂

 

This video you linked- I had a prob with this setup where the biowheel would not spin. I had to put two chunks of coarse sponge just before the wheel to create a gap to allow water to flow more freely and now it spins.

[AndEEss]

If you continuously replace cartridges, you are going to continually crash your cycle. Stop using them. Use foam as suggested above. 

[Pepere]

Well, the cartridges do a nice job of mechanical filtration and activated carbon is not all bad.  Rather than get rid of them and replace with sponge, maybe add another filter to the tank.

 

Something like this can be stuck on the tank wall and with a black painted background fades to near invisible.

And it gives you a filter you can transfer to a hospital/quarantine tank for instant cycling of that tank at the drop of a hat….

those bottom chambers can be filled with media of your choice.  You dont have to put the ceramic balls.  Crushed coral, activated carbon, zeolite… nylon scrubby pads… your choice…

[Pepere]

In the grand  scheme of things, your cycle seems to be coming along.

 

on the 7th you had 0.25 ammonia, 0 nitrite and 10 nitrate. 
 

you added 5 minnows, and a week later with added bioload you were up to 0.5 ppm ammonia and did a 50% water change and had barely measurable nitrates,(as would be expected after dilution from water change) 

About a week later you added some live bacteria.  Is this bacteria in a bottle, ofpr sediment from a sponge filter cleaning from the store?  I have not been terribly impressed with bacteria in the bottle  I have never seen much in the way of usefulness from it.

 

3 days after you have ammonia at 0.25 and nitrates back up to 15ppm.  Presumably your nitrites measured 0….

 

so, ammonia is getting metabolised to nitrates assuming you are not dosing the tank with plant fertilizers.  And 0.25 over the course of a week of ammonia build tells me it has not yet caught up to the bioload you have i  the tank.

I dont get terribly uptight at 0.5 ppm ammonia myself as my tap water has 1 ppm ammonia chronically. At 0.25 ppm ammonia I simply test daily and keep an eye onit….

 

I would suggest doing what is the most difficult thing regarding cycling your tank.

 

Wait.  Let it continue..l

 

Things that help speed along the cycle is to have good aeration, (air stone) warm enough temps 76-80, and high enough ph 7.5-8 ish  They grow faster at higher ph and slower at low.

 

short of adding cycled media to the tank it takes 6-8;weeks…. Numerous people have done tests comparing bacteria in a bottle to a tank not treated with it and found cycling time pretty much the same… They tested multiple brands.  Might it do some good?  Maybe,  but I am not spending money on the, any more.  The chief benefit I see is that it gives you something to do while you wait….

 

the live fish already have beneficial bacteria in their gut.  They are seeding the tank…

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Pepere

[Helena]

Thank you everyone, from what I am taking from this is that I need to look into ways to upgrade my filter and to wait for my ammonia to come down before adding my other fish. 

On 11/23/2022 at 8:34 AM, Pepere said:

Is this bacteria in a bottle, ofpr sediment from a sponge filter cleaning from the store?

I added bacteria from a bottle (APIs quick start. I already had my doubts but didn't know what else to do) on the 7th and on the 20th my fish store gave me sediments from their sponge filter. I was hoping to get my fish back before the holidays but I think you (and everyone else) is right that I should just wait. I do have an air stone running and I recently added red root floaters so hopefully they and the rest of my plants can help speed this up. I miss my fish but I know they are in good hands at my store