Pepere Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 Started a new separate thread to flesh this out rather than continue in old thread, would you consider breaking quarantine. I have a healthy skepticism regarding the claim that dechlorinators “bind, detoxify or lock up” Ammonia for a period of time. Sometimes mentioned as 48 hours, sometimes as up to a day. The vague language around the claim certainly contributes to this skepticism. I am interested in learning more about the data behind these claims and whether I can be convinced they have merit. @Chick-In-Of-TheSea brought to my attention the following paper. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/341880529_Application_of_the_consortia_of_nitrifying_archaea_and_bacteria_for_fish_transportation_may_be_beneficial_for_fish_trading_and_aquaculture @modified lung also provided some links I look forward to reading later. Let me start by saying I hold both of these individuals in high regard and value their input. the link above is one I have questions about now. This was an attempt to determine if adding in essence, bacteria in a bottle to bags of fish being shipped would contribute to lower ammonia levels in the water while shipping. this was specifically done with salt water fish and not freshwater. one of the tests also dosed the water with Seachem Prime in addition to bacteria in a bottle to see if it gave added benefit. Section 2.5 of the paper details chemical removal of ammonia efficacy of Seachem prime. They reference removal as opposed to “detoxification, locking up or binding” they created 100 ml samples of artificial saltwater that they dosed with Ammonium Chloride to roughly 5 ppm. They then tried varying doses of Seachem Prime. O% as a control, 0.0025%, 0.0125%, 0.1%, 0.25% and 0.5% on a volume to volume measurement. The solution was then tested with the Hach method and read with a spectrometer eliminating subjective readings. The Hach method is what the API Master Test kit uses for Ammonia readings. dosing to 0.5% resulted in a 90% lower ammonia reading after 10 minutes. lower doses showed lower reduction. they note that 0.5% is 20 times higher dosing than reccomended by the manufacturer. And before you try doing it yourself to treat ammonia spikes, be aware that this dosage plus bacteria treatment resulted in the death of one fish in the test bag and ended the test early as the other fish was showing signs of significant distress and needed treatment. one thing that is confusing me is the math does not seem to line up. Maybe I am the one making an error, but o.5% by volume would be the volume of the solution times 0.005. now given that 1 gallon contains 3,785 milliliters, multiplied by 0.005 would call for 18.9 milliliters of Prime if I am doing the math right. If I am not I would very much like to be corrected. this is a far cry from 20 times dosing reccomendation as Prime calks for 5 mls in 50 gallons of water, or 1 mill per 10 gallons or 0.1 ml per gallon, up to 5 times in 24 hours I believe. If my math is correct,0.5% by volume they were doseing 189 time standard dosing and 37.8 times maximum reccomended dose. Again if I am making a silly math mistake let me know. In any event, it appears if you dose ammonia water sufficiently high enough it does indeed cause a significant and measurable with api master test kit reduction in Ammonia. Now the claims about it “detoxifying, locking up or binding” ammonia usually state that measured ammonia and Ammonium, ie total ammoniawill not be reduced by their reccomended dosage but it will simply be made not toxic. It is not claimed that it converts toxic free amonia to ammonium either and testing does not show any conversion from free ammonia to Ammonium. Under part 4 of the paper it further discusses commercial ammonia reducers containing sodium hydroxymethane sulphonate as the main ingredient could be useful in A variet of aquaculture settings and again references the 20 times dosage leading me to believe this isthe ingredient in Prime reducing the Ammonia levels with dosing of 0.5% by volume. I plan on mixing up a batch of water dosed to 5 ppm ammonia and trying various doses of dechlorinator to see what dosage gives a significant measured reduction and will be happy to share. again, nothing in this paper gave any hint on normal reccomended dosage “ detoxifying, binding or locking up” ammonia for a temporary period of time so clearly it does not in any way support the claim that it does “detoxify, lock up or bind” ammonia for a temporary period of time with no measurable reduction of ammonia via Hach testing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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