Tank Imbalance -- What to Do First

[Jennifer V]

Hi All! 

I went out of town for five weeks while my wife kept an eye on my 5g neo shrimp and snail tank. I came back to a cloudy tank completely out of whack so I don't know what to start on first. I did a ~30 percent WC yesterday without checking the parameters. Rookie move but I'm glad I did it. Checked today and something kicked the tank out of cycle. It's been running for one year and eight months. Shrimp added six months ago. 

Current parameters:

Ph: 6.6 (was 7.6 when I left)

Ammonia: 0

Nitrite: .25

Nitrates: ~40

Kh: 2 (was 3)

Gh: 12

Temp: 74

I'm thinking replace my crushed coral to get the ph and kh up again. Do WCs until the nitrite disappears and test the water every day. Is that right? Do I focus on getting the nitrite down first and worry about the crushed coral after? How large do my WCs need to be? 

All inhabitants seem fine and are breeding like crazy. It's kind of unsettling to see how many shrimp are now in there to be honest. 

Thoughts? 

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Jennifer V

[modified lung]

Your bacteria will probably restart when you get your KH back up to at least 3. Add the crushed coral and a very small pinch of baking soda.

[Jennifer V]

On 11/10/2022 at 8:23 PM, modified lung said:

Your bacteria will probably restart when you get your KH back up to at least 3. Add the crushed coral and a very small pinch of baking soda.

Thank you for the suggestion! I guess my thinking was backwards. Ha! 

[nabokovfan87]

You might also get things back to sorts with water changes.  Depending what "normal" is for nitrates I would do your water changes often (daily or every other day) until you have that value where you want it.   That's normally just how I handle it when I have a cycle issue. 

That being said, I don't think your tank is out of wack or has a cycle crash.  You probably just had slightly more food and that produced the excess readings.  It'll balance out shortly, but that explains just about everything including the PH crash.

If you need it for stability, I use seachem alkalinity buffer.  I use a 1/8 tsp scoop and 2 scoops per 5G to gently buffer my KH from 4 up to 6.

Crushed coral is definitely the preferred method, but in this tank I didn't know I needed it until I had the black substrate down on the bottom.

[Jennifer V]

On 11/11/2022 at 12:28 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

You might also get things back to sorts with water changes.  Depending what "normal" is for nitrates I would do your water changes often (daily or every other day) until you have that value where you want it.   That's normally just how I handle it when I have a cycle issue. 

That being said, I don't think your tank is out of wack or has a cycle crash.  You probably just had slightly more food and that produced the excess readings.  It'll balance out shortly, but that explains just about everything including the PH crash.

If you need it for stability, I use seachem alkalinity buffer.  I use a 1/8 tsp scoop and 2 scoops per 5G to gently buffer my KH from 4 up to 6.

Crushed coral is definitely the preferred method, but in this tank I didn't know I needed it until I had the black substrate down on the bottom.

Thank you so much for the suggestions! I think I am overfeeding. There are so many shrimp in there that I'm not really sure how much to feed them. I try to add just enough so they'll have it cleaned up within an hour or two but I have been a little heavy handed since I got back. It was just such a shock to see that many shrimp in such a small tank! They literally swim to the surface and steal the food before it even sinks. They're everywhere! 

Would these issues cause the cloudy water as well? It's been cloudy for about two weeks. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/11/2022 at 1:41 PM, Jennifer V said:

There are so many shrimp in there that I'm not really sure how much to feed them. I try to add just enough so they'll have it cleaned up within an hour or two but I have been a little heavy handed since I got back.

Whatever you're feeding now, cut it in half.

On 11/11/2022 at 1:41 PM, Jennifer V said:

Would these issues cause the cloudy water as well? It's been cloudy for about two weeks. 

Yep! Totally would.  I had this happen in one of my tanks.  I literally just changed the type of food and water got more cloudy for about a month.  It is just because of increased waste and likely just the result of the type of filtration as well (some filters pull stuff, some pull course items, some focus on fine, etc.  Cloudy water is usually never an issue, just not pleasing to the eye.

ALRIGHT so....

The fun side of shrimp is they will graze and eat off of surfaces.  So you can focus on (not feeding) and they will graze more.  that is their natural behavior.  So if you don't see them grazing on plants, wood, rocks, and things that you'd expect them to, then you're just feeding a bit too much.  You can also have "heavy days" where say on Fridays they get a little extra shrimp sticks or some repashy in whatever amount and they graze on that all day long.  Having days like that where they can sort of go nuts will also help with breeding behavior because they get into a cycle.  (Don't quote me on that as a scientific fact or anything, but that's been the usual experience for me). 

Shrimp can be pretty non-demanding.  They can get away with a day off here and there and it's actually good for them because they clean the tank that way and the stuff they eat when they graze isn't something that comes from a food bottle.  aufwuchs, and that stuff really helps with their health and stability long term.

Once you get enough of a group, there's times when you feed some of them won't even bother because they just keep grazing and doing their own thing.  All normal.

On 11/11/2022 at 1:41 PM, Jennifer V said:

They literally swim to the surface and steal the food before it even sinks.

Oh yes. This is the norm.  @Minanora has her shrimp that takes giant algae cookie snacks and runs to hide with them.  Shrimp are very brave when food hits.  Then they run to their hides and gorge.

[Minanora]

Hey! So.... My 5.5 neo tank was cloudy for..... Well... Like .... 9 months. 😂

When there are a ton of babies they make tiny tiny poos, and lots of it. I was only using a sponge filter. I added a tiny nicrew internal filter that I added floss to. My tank is finally clear, even with 150+ shrimp in it.

My nitrates are always super low, 5-10ppm. I feed mineral junkie and my GH and KH are always up off the charts.

I've started changing water more, 40% every two weeks. I turn off the sponge 24 hours before so all the poo can settle. Works like a charm

 

[Jennifer V]

On 11/10/2022 at 9:22 PM, Jennifer V said:

Thank you for the suggestion! I guess my thinking was backwards. Ha! 

 

On 11/10/2022 at 8:23 PM, modified lung said:

Your bacteria will probably restart when you get your KH back up to at least 3. Add the crushed coral and a very small pinch of baking soda.

I added the crushed coral day before yesterday but I forgot the baking soda. Can I still add it? The ph has gone up slightly but the kh is the same. The nitrite is back to normal though. Yay! 

[Jennifer V]

On 11/11/2022 at 3:44 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Whatever you're feeding now, cut it in half.

Yep! Totally would.  I had this happen in one of my tanks.  I literally just changed the type of food and water got more cloudy for about a month.  It is just because of increased waste and likely just the result of the type of filtration as well (some filters pull stuff, some pull course items, some focus on fine, etc.  Cloudy water is usually never an issue, just not pleasing to the eye.

ALRIGHT so....

The fun side of shrimp is they will graze and eat off of surfaces.  So you can focus on (not feeding) and they will graze more.  that is their natural behavior.  So if you don't see them grazing on plants, wood, rocks, and things that you'd expect them to, then you're just feeding a bit too much.  You can also have "heavy days" where say on Fridays they get a little extra shrimp sticks or some repashy in whatever amount and they graze on that all day long.  Having days like that where they can sort of go nuts will also help with breeding behavior because they get into a cycle.  (Don't quote me on that as a scientific fact or anything, but that's been the usual experience for me). 

Shrimp can be pretty non-demanding.  They can get away with a day off here and there and it's actually good for them because they clean the tank that way and the stuff they eat when they graze isn't something that comes from a food bottle.  aufwuchs, and that stuff really helps with their health and stability long term.

Once you get enough of a group, there's times when you feed some of them won't even bother because they just keep grazing and doing their own thing.  All normal.

Oh yes. This is the norm.  @Minanora has her shrimp that takes giant algae cookie snacks and runs to hide with them.  Shrimp are very brave when food hits.  Then they run to their hides and gorge.

Right now I'm feeding them a variety of foods -- different kind each day including a tiny amount of bacter AE once a week. Just a fourth of an eighth teaspoon because it's such a small tank. The others are hikari shrimp cuisine, fluval bug bites shrimp formula, sera shrimp food and dennerle shrimp king color. Should I replace one of those with repashy? Is it cleaner? @Minanora? 

On 11/11/2022 at 6:50 PM, Minanora said:

Hey! So.... My 5.5 neo tank was cloudy for..... Well... Like .... 9 months. 😂

When there are a ton of babies they make tiny tiny poos, and lots of it. I was only using a sponge filter. I added a tiny nicrew internal filter that I added floss to. My tank is finally clear, even with 150+ shrimp in it.

My nitrates are always super low, 5-10ppm. I feed mineral junkie and my GH and KH are always up off the charts.

I've started changing water more, 40% every two weeks. I turn off the sponge 24 hours before so all the poo can settle. Works like a charm

 

Turning off the filter is a great idea! I only have a small sponge filter in there now. I don't really know anything about other kinds of filters. Can you send me a link to the one you use? Or should I upgrade to a larger sponge? Admittedly, I haven't cleaned the one I have in quite awhile. I always forget to do it! Maybe that's part of the problem too? 

[modified lung]

On 11/12/2022 at 1:43 PM, Jennifer V said:

 

I added the crushed coral day before yesterday but I forgot the baking soda. Can I still add it? The ph has gone up slightly but the kh is the same. The nitrite is back to normal though. Yay! 

You can still add it. The baking soda is to give your KH a quick boost if the crushed coral isn't dissolving fast enough. Or you can use Seachem alkalinity buffer instead which is basically baking soda mixed with a few other helpful things. Remember to add only a tiny bit at a time. Too much at once can swing your pH high very fast.

 

[Jennifer V]

On 11/12/2022 at 4:15 PM, modified lung said:

You can still add it. The baking soda is to give your KH a quick boost if the crushed coral isn't dissolving fast enough. Or you can use Seachem alkalinity buffer instead which is basically baking soda mixed with a few other helpful things. Remember to add only a tiny bit at a time. Too much at once can swing your pH high very fast.

 

Do you know how much baking soda to add to a 5g? Do I just throw it in or do I mix it with tank water first? 

[modified lung]

On 11/13/2022 at 1:50 AM, Jennifer V said:

Do you know how much baking soda to add to a 5g? Do I just throw it in or do I mix it with tank water first? 

Less than 1/8 tsp should bring up KH by 1. You can throw it in or mix. Mixing will give you faster results. I'd test pH, then add a very tiny pinch of baking soda, then test pH again a few minutes later. You want to be careful not to swing your pH up very much at a time with baking soda. I usually go for less than 0.5 pH a day. More isn't a huge deal though

 

[Patrick_G]

Are you using the Aquarium Co-op test strips? I’ve found them to be very sensitive to Nitrites, to the point where I bought a new API test kit just to have a reliable “second opinion”.  The API always read 0 when the AC strips read .25. 

[Jennifer V]

On 11/13/2022 at 11:31 AM, modified lung said:

Less than 1/8 tsp should bring up KH by 1. You can throw it in or mix. Mixing will give you faster results. I'd test pH, then add a very tiny pinch of baking soda, then test pH again a few minutes later. You want to be careful not to swing your pH up very much at a time with baking soda. I usually go for less than 0.5 pH a day. More isn't a huge deal though

 

Ok perfect! I'll go get some fresh baking soda and add a pinch at a time. After a few days with the crushed coral, the ph and kh haven't really risen at all even though I added more this time than the last time I added it a few months ago. How frequently do I need to add baking soda? Just every time the ph drops, which hopefully doesn't keep happening. 

On 11/13/2022 at 11:37 AM, Patrick_G said:

Are you using the Aquarium Co-op test strips? I’ve found them to be very sensitive to Nitrites, to the point where I bought a new API test kit just to have a reliable “second opinion”.  The API always read 0 when the AC strips read .25. 

Oh my! Reason 1,000 why I need to get the AC test strips! 

[modified lung]

On 11/13/2022 at 2:11 PM, Jennifer V said:

Ok perfect! I'll go get some fresh baking soda and add a pinch at a time. After a few days with the crushed coral, the ph and kh haven't really risen at all even though I added more this time than the last time I added it a few months ago. How frequently do I need to add baking soda? Just every time the ph drops, which hopefully doesn't keep happening. 

Crushed coral can be slow to dissolve. Ideally the baking soda will up the pH and KH and the coral will keep it there. You just have to test every so often see. 

[Jennifer V]

On 11/13/2022 at 8:44 PM, modified lung said:

Crushed coral can be slow to dissolve. Ideally the baking soda will up the pH and KH and the coral will keep it there. You just have to test every so often see. 

Thank you so much for all of your help! 

[Jennifer V]

@modified lung @nabokovfan87 I added more crushed coral and the kh and the pH went up so that's good news but then my loving wife decided to do a major sand cleaning. She's so caring! But I think she kicked the tank out of whack again. I tested the tank:

Ph: 7.0 

Ammonia: .5

Nitrite: .5

Nitrates: 80

Kh: 3

Then I did a ~50 percent WC yesterday because of the ammonia and nitrite. I checked today:

Ph: 6.8

Ammonia: .25

Nitrite:  .25

Nitrates: 40 

Kh: 2 

Do I keep doing WCs? 

The baking soda I had was old so heading to the store to pick up some fresh. 

I'm ready to tear this tank down and get a larger one. I never would've gotten a 5g if I knew it would be this much work. There are only shrimp and snails in there and it's *very* heavily planted. 

Pics included. The water is still cloudy as well. Also reduced feeding by half. 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2022 by Jennifer V

[modified lung]

Sounds like some of the extra KH you added got removed with the water change. The crushed coral will take time to catch up. The baking soda will give more immediate results. Eventually, when your bacteria population grows strong and diverse enough, you won't have to worry about it as much.

[Jennifer V]

On 12/7/2022 at 8:44 AM, modified lung said:

Sounds like some of the extra KH you added got removed with the water change. The crushed coral will take time to catch up. The baking soda will give more immediate results. Eventually, when your bacteria population grows strong and diverse enough, you won't have to worry about it as much.

Do I just not worry about the ammonia and nitrite right now and just keep testing? This tank has been set up for nearly two years and has never had problems until now. Old Tank Syndrome? I do regular WCs but I haven't vac'ed r sand in awhile which is why my lovely wife tackled it. 

Edited December 7, 2022 by Jennifer V

[nabokovfan87]

I don't think siphon caused any issues. Like Modified Lung mentioned, it's probably the water change itself that modified parameters. Honestly though, between 6.8-7.0 that's fine for parameters.

The tank is cycling and you're having a bacterial bloom (or it's cloudy from the coral) and will just take time to finish up cycling.  Let the filters work. It'll get there. Just do your normal maintenance and normal procedures for cleaning and keep an eye on parameters.

On 12/7/2022 at 7:53 AM, Jennifer V said:

Do I just not worry about the ammonia and nitrite right now and just keep testing? This tank has been set up for nearly two years and has never had problems until now. Old Tank Syndrome? I do regular WCs but I haven't vac'ed r sand in awhile which is why my lovely wife tackled it. 

Usually I use the test strips. So that's PH, KH, GH, Nitrite, Nitrates on my daily or weekly testing when I have issues.

Cory has a very good video on OTS that is worth a look. Please feel free to ask any questions you might have after watching it.

Ignoring the siphon definitely doesn't help, leads to phosphate buildup and algae issues. So try to make sure that happens week to week. You likely don't even need to do a WC given the volume of water changed by the siphon itself.

Shrimp generally will do better with a stable environment, so the goal here is to just have consistency. Weekly cleaning, try to change the same amount of water whenever you do, etc. The plants will also do better as a result of that methodical approach too.

If you're trying to diagnose OTS the main thing will be to compare the tank to what's going on with your tap water. Based on KH and GH being where they are, I can't say that it's OTS. Might just be something else entirely going on, but you're on the right track by adding the coral and adjusting things that way.  Positioning the bags closer to flow will help, but using CC means it's a slower release and more stable long term, which is good.

On 12/7/2022 at 7:01 AM, Jennifer V said:

I'm ready to tear this tank down and get a larger one. I never would've gotten a 5g if I knew it would be this much work. There are only shrimp and snails in there and it's *very* heavily planted. 

If you do, I'd recommend a 20Long aquarium if that fits where you have the tank. You'll get there. Pecktec does a lot of small tanks and he has some techniques he uses that might make things easier on you. Example, he uses a toothbrush to clean things off and uses a gallon jug as his bucket for water changes, using the handle of the jug to hold the siphon tube in place.

On 11/12/2022 at 1:49 PM, Jennifer V said:

I always forget to do it! Maybe that's part of the problem too? 

Definitely attributes to more waste in the tank, which affects KH as well.

[Jennifer V]

It's me again. Checking in because I'm ready to give up and I don't know what to do next. I've waited patiently for my tank to right itself and it just won't get there. Added more crushed coral, reduced feedings by half, keeping up with WCs of ~30 percent a week and sand vacuuming, testing the water every couple days. It's a heavily planted 5g with neos and snails set up for nearly two years. Parameters have been off for two months now and haven't really budged in that time. 

Current parameters:

Ph: 7.0

Ammonia: .25

Nitrite: .25

Nitrates: ~40

Kh: 2 

Gh: 12

Temp: 74

I've looked into old tank syndrome, but I haven't added anything new to the tank in seven months. Absolutely nothing has changed with the exception of the shrimp and snail population booming. I have seen three shrimp deaths within the last two weeks but nothing major given that there are zillions of shrimp in there. No noticeable snail deaths. 

What do I do? 

 

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/7/2023 at 8:02 AM, Jennifer V said:

I've looked into old tank syndrome, but I haven't added anything new to the tank in seven months. Absolutely nothing has changed with the exception of the shrimp and snail population booming. I have seen three shrimp deaths within the last two weeks but nothing major given that there are zillions of shrimp in there. No noticeable snail deaths. 

What do I do?

I've had this issue happen when I had a tank over stocked.  You're seeing nitrite and nitrate which means the cycle is there, but struggling.

Ultimately in my case it was silly because In both cases it was clear for me what the issue was.  Both of them with 10G tanks, which for me is the size of a 1G tank for someone else I would imagine.  It's so difficult for me to work in and for me to maintain.  Filtration size is also a concern.    It's the type of thing where 3-5 fish seems to be "full" for the bioload.

This situation... and I am sorry I missed this thread reply.  (thanks for reminding me of it)  I would ask what the filtration setup is on the tank. How much of a biological media source do you have for the load on the livestock.

For me:

Situation A: QT setup for the sake of moving fish from the floor to the tank and adding a heater.  Ultimately it was clearly overstocked.  I ran 2-3 filters on this tank and an airstone.  I had a tidal filter and a sponge filter running.  Constant nitrates were causing some issues and the majority of what I saw was the fish behavior that indicated to me there could be an issue.  I increased my water changes so I could better clean off the excess waste (nitrates) and it worked out.

Situation B:  Swordtails and swordtail fry and one corydoras.  It was not "overstocked" but as the fish grew it became a concern.  The nano/small sponge filter just was not able to mechanically clean the tank, resulting in a lot of manual removal of waste.  The solution to the problem was that I added a few large lava rocks.  That was a nice solution and it went away almost immediately.  Another lingering nitrite spike.

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/7/2022 at 7:01 AM, Jennifer V said:

Ph: 7.0 

Ammonia: .5

Nitrite: .5

Nitrates: 80

Kh: 3

Then I did a ~50 percent WC yesterday because of the ammonia and nitrite. I checked today:

Ph: 6.8

Ammonia: .25

Nitrite:  .25

Nitrates: 40 

Kh: 2 

Do I keep doing WCs? 

This sort of tells the tale as well for you in this scenario.

The Nitrates went down (awesome!)
The nitrites went down (awesome!)
The ammonia went down (awesome!)
the KH went down (expected, because it is something you're adding to your tap water to raise KH)

More biological filtration helps to keep the ammonia, nitrites at 0, then having more water changes removes that high level of nitrates as a result of the biological filtration.  Adjust the KH to the right point once you have things stable, then you have that longer term stability you're looking for.

I try to think of issues like this in 3 main steps for myself.

1.  Lower the stress: I know there's a water quality issue ---> Change water
2.  Fix the issue: I know there's ammonia and nitrite that is lingering ---> Add biological support
3.  Long term stable environment: Get things correct, and then stabilize your tank with GH and KH buffers as you need to.

[Jennifer V]

On 6/17/2023 at 8:22 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

This sort of tells the tale as well for you in this scenario.

The Nitrates went down (awesome!)
The nitrites went down (awesome!)
The ammonia went down (awesome!)
the KH went down (expected, because it is something you're adding to your tap water to raise KH)

More biological filtration helps to keep the ammonia, nitrites at 0, then having more water changes removes that high level of nitrates as a result of the biological filtration.  Adjust the KH to the right point once you have things stable, then you have that longer term stability you're looking for.

I try to think of issues like this in 3 main steps for myself.

1.  Lower the stress: I know there's a water quality issue ---> Change water
2.  Fix the issue: I know there's ammonia and nitrite that is lingering ---> Add biological support
3.  Long term stable environment: Get things correct, and then stabilize your tank with GH and KH buffers as you need to.

I have a small ACO sponge filter in there now. What do you recommend I do to increase biological support? This is blowing my mind! I never thought tiny shrimp and snails would overload a tank! 

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/17/2023 at 7:47 PM, Jennifer V said:

I have a small ACO sponge filter in there now. What do you recommend I do to increase biological support? This is blowing my mind! I never thought tiny shrimp and snails would overload a tank! 

Mark's shrimp tanks has one where he just literally went and added a lot of ceramic rings to the back corner of the tank. That would give the shrimp some hides and some biological media. Adding lava rocks as well works too.  You can also just add another sponge filter.

 

Ultimately, take everything you have and swap over to a 20L aquarium and then go ahead and add a second sponge filter. The problem is likely solved.  You can change out more water, but you also have more volume to keep things stable in terms of buffers too!

You can always upgrade to a HoB if need be.

This is also a fun option too. ^^