EvesFishJourney Posted November 7, 2022 Posted November 7, 2022 Well folks, I think I have a silent murderer on my hands. I had a group of cherry shrimp, 4 to be exact, in a planted 2.5 gallon tank, with a nerite and 2 mystery snails. I slowly started noticing my cherry shrimp disappearing, and now I’m down to only one! I looked for a body to scoop out when I noticed one was missing initially, but couldn’t find one. I moved things around and still nothing. I thought maybe it had escaped out of the tank as shrimp sometimes do, but I have a pretty tight lid on the tank with no gaps it could’ve crawled out of, so I ruled that theory out pretty quickly. A few days go by, and another one went missing! I went through the same process as before, look for a body, make sure the tank lid had been on properly that night, etc. Still nothing. Now I know this might sound crazy, but my mid size gold mystery snail, David, moves pretty quickly, and I can only assume he ate them somehow? I had seen him sneak up on my shrimp before and and try to glide over them, but never try to take a bite of one. My nerite is slow and keeps to himself, and my other mystery snail minds his own business and likes to hang out under his favorite little rock, so I ruled them out as possible suspects as well. I know shrimp can be quite vulnerable and a bit slower when molting, so maybe he got them then? Has anyone had this happen before or knows anything about mystery snails munching on helpless cherry shrimp? Any answers or theories would be much appreciated! Here is the culprit:
AnimalNerd98 Posted November 7, 2022 Posted November 7, 2022 Hmm, I’m not saying it’s not possible, but I personally haven’t heard of or seen predatory behaviors from mystery snails. I have kept mystery snails with Amano shrimp and ghost shrimp before, but I never lost any shrimp to them. Granted, they were in a 20 gallon tank, so this is just from my personal experience. Some other things to consider: 1) How new are the shrimp to you? Did you just buy them or are they from one of your other tanks? 2) How old is the tank? How often and what are you feeding? What are the tank parameters? Depending on your answers, they could’ve starved or died from tank conditions and not necessarily because they were being hunted down. I have also just had starter colonies of shrimp that just never took off and died out. I am currently on my third attempt at blue dream Neos and I finally have a decent number of them. Sorry to hear about your loss! I hope someone else can chime in with their experience. 1
EvesFishJourney Posted November 7, 2022 Author Posted November 7, 2022 I had the shrimp for about 5 weeks before they started to disappear. The tank is about 8 weeks old, so pretty fresh. I feed Hikari mini algae pellets every few days, and occasionally blanched cucumber as a treat. I can’t remember what my tank parameters are exactly, but I tested this morning and they’re in a safe range, and around what they usually are. Zero chlorine, zero nitrite, barely any nitrate, zero ammonia, and liquid rock in regards to hardness. I have pretty hard water where I live anyway, and I do add wonder shells to clear the water and add more calcium to the tank, but I haven’t ever had problems with the water being too hard to the point it kills things, especially because harder water is great for shrimp and snails. So who knows? It’s possible that they’re just dying off slowly from a disease, but I’ve looked for any signs of infection, parasites, or diseases, and I couldn’t see any, plus my LFS does a thorough quarantine process before releasing any fish for sale, and I’ve always had good luck with their shrimp in other tanks without David the possible killer snail. And it just confuses me why I didn’t see any dead shrimp after they began to disappear? Unless the snail was eating them after they died? Anyway, hope that gave you any additional info you needed to maybe help solve this mystery? And thank you for the input! 1
TheSwissAquarist Posted November 7, 2022 Posted November 7, 2022 On 11/7/2022 at 6:06 AM, EvesFishJourney said: Well folks, I think I have a silent murderer on my hands. I had a group of cherry shrimp, 4 to be exact, in a planted 2.5 gallon tank, with a nerite and 2 mystery snails. I slowly started noticing my cherry shrimp disappearing, and now I’m down to only one! I looked for a body to scoop out when I noticed one was missing initially, but couldn’t find one. I moved things around and still nothing. I thought maybe it had escaped out of the tank as shrimp sometimes do, but I have a pretty tight lid on the tank with no gaps it could’ve crawled out of, so I ruled that theory out pretty quickly. A few days go by, and another one went missing! I went through the same process as before, look for a body, make sure the tank lid had been on properly that night, etc. Still nothing. Now I know this might sound crazy, but my mid size gold mystery snail, David, moves pretty quickly, and I can only assume he ate them somehow? I had seen him sneak up on my shrimp before and and try to glide over them, but never try to take a bite of one. My nerite is slow and keeps to himself, and my other mystery snail minds his own business and likes to hang out under his favorite little rock, so I ruled them out as possible suspects as well. I know shrimp can be quite vulnerable and a bit slower when molting, so maybe he got them then? Has anyone had this happen before or knows anything about mystery snails munching on helpless cherry shrimp? Any answers or theories would be much appreciated! Here is the culprit: @Chick-In-Of-TheSea and @Guppysnail do a lot of stuff about Mystery Snails, maybe they can help? 1 1
EvesFishJourney Posted November 7, 2022 Author Posted November 7, 2022 On 11/6/2022 at 11:53 PM, TheSwissAquarist said: @Chick-In-Of-TheSea and @Guppysnail do a lot of stuff about Mystery Snails, maybe they can help? Thank you!!
Chick-In-Of-TheSea Posted November 7, 2022 Posted November 7, 2022 (edited) On 11/7/2022 at 1:16 AM, EvesFishJourney said: Unless the snail was eating them after they died? I keep mystery snails with shrimp, and they live peacefully together. Mystery snails will certainly eat dead shrimp, and dead fish as well. Shrimp are fast and when they feel threatened they shoot off like a flash in the other direction. I think it’s unlikely the mystery snail killed them. I’d look at a few more possible causes of death such as: *stress from current (common with hang-on-back filters) *sucked into hang-on-back filter *Water changes of more than 10%. Shrimp are sensitive to change. *temperature of new water going in does not match temperature of tank *parameter issues (ammonia or nitrite present, or nitrates >40ppm) Would any of these apply to your tank situation? Edited November 7, 2022 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea 1
Guppysnail Posted November 7, 2022 Posted November 7, 2022 (edited) I’m sorry you are losing shrimp. Getting them started is sometimes tricky. Your mystery snail and your other shrimp are indeed eating your missing shrimp….after they have died though. Shrimp have a hard time in new tanks even if they are fully cycled tanks. They require biofilm and all the gunk that grows over time as part of their diet. They also require calcium so they can molt and reform their shells properly. Some suggestions would be bacter ae to substitute for the missing biofilm until your tank seasons (ages and grows biofilm and algae). Zoomed nano banquet blocks for calcium. Blanched veggies grow biofilm quick and shrimp love them. The veggies and banquet blocks are also thing that your snails will appreciate. They need a varied diet as well. Hope this helps. EDIT TO ADD @JettsPapa has written a fabulous care sheet to help folks new to shrimp learn their care needs. Hopefully he can share it with you. Edited November 7, 2022 by Guppysnail 3
RockMongler Posted November 7, 2022 Posted November 7, 2022 Your snails will 100% eat dead shrimp, but I doubt they are the murderer. One of the sad parts of fishkeeping is, sometimes your livestock doesn't survive for reasons you might not be able to work out immediately. Shrimp tend to not to the best in brand new, uncycled/newly cycled tanks. They tend to be the most successful in established, "Seasoned" tanks, where there is lots of biofilm and algae to graze upon. Could just be they slowly just died off, and you didn't find bodies because the snails found them first. I know in my seasoned 20L, if something dies, and I don't spot it and remove it immediately, there's not much left to find. I've seen fish alive, but looking a bit pale one evening, then only finding a bit of spinal cord with a bunch of snails and shrimp picking at it the next morning. I don't ever see dead shrimp in that tank, because there are more alive than I can actually get a count of, and if something does die, the rest of the tank will take care of it very quickly. 1
JettsPapa Posted November 7, 2022 Posted November 7, 2022 On 11/7/2022 at 5:16 AM, Guppysnail said: EDIT TO ADD @JettsPapa has written a fabulous care sheet to help folks new to shrimp learn their care needs. Hopefully he can share it with you. There is a link below to the thread where I posted that information. I also wanted to mention that if your gH and kH are high enough you might want to discontinue the wonder shell. While I haven't experienced it, even with my gH and kH near 300 ppm, I've heard of cases where they were so high that the shells get too strong and hard, and it caused the shrimp to die because of failed molts. 2
TOtrees Posted November 7, 2022 Posted November 7, 2022 Just adding 2c to the aboves, that a healthy cherry shrimp would never be captured or depredated by a mystery snail. And another 2c for cherry shrimp (freshwater shrimp in general) having difficulty in tanks that are younger/newer than say 2-4 months. Keep the water clean, and if possible keep the lights on the high side to promote diatoms/algae. Live plants or cuttings will be good for both food and for ecology. Floating plants especially helpful since their growth isn't limited by dissolved CO2 levels. Use almond or oak leaves to add some tannins to the water, and provide good surfaces for biofilms. Try feeding smaller amounts, but more often (eg so food is always available but never wasted). I don't have much experience keeping mystery snails, but I find good success with cherry shrimps when ramshorns are present. Not saying they're co-dependent or anything, but the shrimps seem to do better with the ramshorns around. Maybe the snails are removing wasted food/organics from the water better, maybe their poop has enough nutrition left over for the shrimps to actually consume, maybe a combo of both, or maybe neither. But, do be aware that once you add ramshorns, you'll always have them. Try feeding blanched zucchini instead of cucumber. Or spinach. Cucumber's not bad, but I think zucchini is better/preferred. 1
TeeJay Posted November 7, 2022 Posted November 7, 2022 I think everyone else pretty much hit the nail on the head. If I was a betting mani wild say they did die and then in turn the other shimp and snails are them. They are opportunistic eaters of course. I have a pair of mysteries in my 10 gal shrimp sanctuary tank and never an issue. The shrimp and snails ignore each other. Unless a shrimp wants to catch a ride on the back of a snail 😆 I personally like to use bacter ae and extreme shrimp sticks as my main staples for food. Some nano block when there not to snobby to eat it. As well as make mg shrimp lollies out of repashy foods. Alder cones are great for helping grow the biofilm that shrp love to snack on as well. I think a case of not enough of the micro flora and fauna to start with for the shrimp to graze on 2
eatyourpeas Posted November 7, 2022 Posted November 7, 2022 I agree with previous posters that shrimp were already dead and the snails were feeding on their carcass. I would look for other causes. Sorry you lost the little guys. 😔 1
EvesFishJourney Posted November 8, 2022 Author Posted November 8, 2022 On 11/7/2022 at 3:49 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said: I keep mystery snails with shrimp, and they live peacefully together. Mystery snails will certainly eat dead shrimp, and dead fish as well. Shrimp are fast and when they feel threatened they shoot off like a flash in the other direction. I think it’s unlikely the mystery snail killed them. I’d look at a few more possible causes of death such as: *stress from current (common with hang-on-back filters) *sucked into hang-on-back filter *Water changes of more than 10%. Shrimp are sensitive to change. *temperature of new water going in does not match temperature of tank *parameter issues (ammonia or nitrite present, or nitrates >40ppm) Would any of these apply to your tank situation? I use a sponge filter, my parameters are pretty stable and in healthy areas for shrimp, so my guess is it probably had something to do with the water changes. I usually change at least 50% of the water. I wasn’t aware that shrimp were so sensitive to water changes! I’m going to definitely be more car about that in the future, thank you!
EvesFishJourney Posted November 8, 2022 Author Posted November 8, 2022 On 11/7/2022 at 7:37 AM, JettsPapa said: There is a link below to the thread where I posted that information. I also wanted to mention that if your gH and kH are high enough you might want to discontinue the wonder shell. While I haven't experienced it, even with my gH and kH near 300 ppm, I've heard of cases where they were so high that the shells get too strong and hard, and it caused the shrimp to die because of failed molts. Ok, I’m betting the wonder shell and too much gH and kH preventing them from molting was probably the main issue. @Chick-In-Of-TheSea also said that it’s possible that I was changing too much water, as shrimp are sensitive to too much change, and I was doing about a 50% water change every other week, so that could be a cause as well. I’ll definitely have a look at that shrimp info thread that you linked. I appreciate the help, and I’ll definitely implement those changes to hopefully have better luck with cherries in the future! 1
Chick-In-Of-TheSea Posted November 8, 2022 Posted November 8, 2022 (edited) On 11/7/2022 at 12:06 AM, EvesFishJourney said: Here is the culprit: Perhaps you need to apologize to “the culprit”. Perhaps with a boiled green bean (split lengthwise) or boiled piece of zucchini? 😁😉Hehe Edited November 8, 2022 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea 2
EvesFishJourney Posted November 16, 2022 Author Posted November 16, 2022 On 11/8/2022 at 3:45 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said: Perhaps you need to apologize to “the culprit”. Perhaps with a boiled green bean (split lengthwise) or boiled piece of zucchini? 😁😉Hehe I apologized to him with some blanched zucchini, and a new home in my new 75 gallon tank 😂 1
Chick-In-Of-TheSea Posted November 16, 2022 Posted November 16, 2022 On 11/16/2022 at 2:37 PM, EvesFishJourney said: I apologized to him with some blanched zucchini, and a new home in my new 75 gallon tank 😂 Aw.. I bet he loves it. ❤️
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