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Established dirted tank change to sand


CandyEllerKern
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Halp! I have a very established (4 year old) 180g planted dirted tank capped with blasting sand. I have a Red Eyed Royal Pleco that likes to dig and has breached the cap one to many times and I am fed up as it absolutely destroys the tank and filter after (plus I think the dirt is past its prime) so I want to rip it all out and replace with Eco Complete. The problem is that I have Rabbit Snails, a billion blue dream shrimp, and a breeding pair of bristlenose plecos so babies of every size. How do you change the substrate without killing off long established shrimp and snail colonies. Even if I left the dirt and heavy capped the old dirt and sand with eco complete I feel like I would bury all my shrimp! Please help me! 

4E94A663-3BE2-4A1C-AD89-DB637D6A247C.jpeg

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I'm sure someone will have a much more thurough description on how to do this the best way possible... You could approach this slowly. You have so many beautiful and mature plants in there I would think you'd have to take it a section at a time. Uproot each plant in the section, put them aside in a bucket with tank water, use a cup or scoop to scoop out the substrate then replace with eco complete and re plant plants. The only crappy part about trying to do this in sections is you will end up with mud for water for a while... other option is to try to catch out everything the best you can and swap all at once... and try not to think about any casualties 🥲. I honestly think the latter option is ultimately the easiest.

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On 10/24/2022 at 12:10 AM, Mmiller2001 said:

I would do a section at a time. It's going to be a mess and you will loose your cycle. I'd also encourage you to rethink Eco Complete.

I agree. Putting the whole load in at once might upset the cycle and potentially kill off sensible creatures like shrimp. Try changing a quarter a week, and maybe spread it out over a month.

Love the look of the tank!

Edited by TheSwissAquarist
Forgot to compliment the tank.
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On 10/24/2022 at 12:27 AM, CandyEllerKern said:

Whats wrong with Eco Complete? I thought it was a good easy planted substrate.  Any other suggestions? I do like the section at a time but but how would i avoid contaminating the new sand?

I’m curious as well… I have eco complete in 3 of my tanks and I like it just fine. The only thing I regret is not knowing it’s bad for corydoras as I have some habrosus in one tank with eco complete. But I’ve been slowly adding smooth gravel on top for them so they are less likely to scratch themselves.

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On 10/24/2022 at 1:27 AM, CandyEllerKern said:

Whats wrong with Eco Complete? I thought it was a good easy planted substrate.  Any other suggestions? I do like the section at a time but but how would i avoid contaminating the new sand?

It's hard to work with and had I known then what I know now, I would have never swapped to it. Damages plants when planting all the time and just overall frustrating.

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On 10/24/2022 at 12:41 AM, TheSwissAquarist said:

I agree. Putting the whole load in at once might upset the cycle and potentially kill off sensible creatures like shrimp. Try changing a quarter a week, and maybe spread it out over a month.

Love the look of the tank!

Thanks. I think I will try to change a bit at a time. Still worried its going to be a hot mess. My idea was to set up a temp tank and move all of my fish over, then swap the substrate so the cycle crashing is not a big deal. I just dont know how to get all of the shrimp out.

Thanks, I love the tank, just hate the dirt 😞 

On 10/24/2022 at 7:35 AM, Mmiller2001 said:

It's hard to work with and had I known then what I know now, I would have never swapped to it. Damages plants when planting all the time and just overall frustrating.

Thanks for the heads up. Do you have another suggestion? I dont want to use a clay based one like the Fluval substrates as I understand that they break down after a few years and need replacing? 

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On 10/24/2022 at 5:56 AM, Rita said:

I’m curious as well… I have eco complete in 3 of my tanks and I like it just fine. The only thing I regret is not knowing it’s bad for corydoras as I have some habrosus in one tank with eco complete. But I’ve been slowly adding smooth gravel on top for them so they are less likely to scratch themselves.

Oh I didnt realize it was bad for Cories. I have a large school in that tank. Is it just because its sharp? How do you like it otherwise for plant growth?

On 10/25/2022 at 2:51 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

It's going to be. Be ready for large water changes and daily filter cleaning.

Thanks 🙂 was hoping there was some secret squirrel way to get the substrate switched over

On 10/24/2022 at 12:44 AM, Scapexghost said:

Can you move the pleco to another tank?

Unfortunately not, I don't have another tank big enough for him. Hes probably close to 10" now

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On 10/25/2022 at 2:52 PM, CandyEllerKern said:

Oh I didnt realize it was bad for Cories. I have a large school in that tank. Is it just because its sharp? How do you like it otherwise for plant growth?

Yeah, it’s too rough for corydoras, it can scratch up their bellies and barbels.

I do like it for plant growth but full disclaimer I’ve never used to to swap substrate, only to start new tanks with new plants. As others have mentioned it can be difficult to plant plants in it because sometimes they will just float away. I find that to be true with any gravel though, not only eco complete.

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On 10/24/2022 at 12:27 AM, CandyEllerKern said:

Whats wrong with Eco Complete?

It's basically just small pieces of lava rock at some point. For some fish it's too sharp and for plants there is other options if you're looking for a cap or for some sort of rich nutrient lifecycle.

If this was my tank and I wanted to replace substrate I would prep a few things, but regardless of size it's always going to be the same method.  Because it's going to be a major task it makes it slightly more complicated....

First, get 3-4 pretty good size bins as opposed to buckets with lids if you can.
Second, fill those up with tank water about halfway and then put an airstone or sponge filter / cycled media (with airstone) into each bucket that will have live animals
Third, go ahead and put a section of the tank into each bin until you have all of the plants removed. If  possible, all the animals / fish would go into one bin by themselves.
Fourth, place all of the rocks / wood into their own bins
Finally, go ahead and siphon out as much water as possible to make it easier to remove the substrate without the added weight
....
Then you'd just go ahead and remove the substrate with a shop vac or a scoop of some kind.
Rinse, add in the new substrate and go ahead and add back in all of your wood / rocks, then go ahead and add in your plants and the animals.  If you have airstones and filtered media with the animals then you can leave them in the bins as you need to.  The fish and shrimp will need a lid because they can easily get spooked and jump out of the bins at that point.  Plants need to stay wet as well as any ceramic / biological filtration in the system.

Hopefully that helps! That is how I've handled it in the past.

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On 10/25/2022 at 10:14 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Hopefully that helps! That is how I've handled it in the past.

Thanks that does help. This is kind of how I was thinking of doing it. Im terrified of loosing my Congo Tetras if I do it section by section. Do you have a planted substrate that you would suggest?

 

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On 10/26/2022 at 12:37 PM, CandyEllerKern said:

Do you have a planted substrate that you would suggest?

I honestly haven't found one that I like.  I think the best person to ask would be @Seattle_Aquarist.  I have tried the Fluval one, it was "fine".  Whenever I use one again I am going to lean towards the amazonia 1.  It does leech, so you have to run the tank for a little bit before you add fish back or do a bunch of water changes.

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On 10/26/2022 at 1:37 PM, CandyEllerKern said:

Do you have a planted substrate that you would suggest?

 

For sand, I like FairmountSantrol AquaQuartz-50 Pool Filter 20-Grade Silica Sand 50 Pounds, White https://a.co/d/hcBisJr

For an Aqua Soil, I like 

Limited-time deal: LANDEN Aqua Soil Substrate for Natural Planted Aquarium, Plant or Shrimp Stratum, Clay Gravel and Stable Porous Substrate for Freshwater Aquarium, Black Color (20 lbs) https://a.co/d/gkEvxpS

Landen will spike ammonia temporally, you must take steps to handle it. Spikes for about 2 weeks.

Edited by Mmiller2001
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On 10/26/2022 at 2:45 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

For sand, I like FairmountSantrol AquaQuartz-50 Pool Filter 20-Grade Silica Sand 50 Pounds, White https://a.co/d/hcBisJr

For an Aqua Soil, I like 

Limited-time deal: LANDEN Aqua Soil Substrate for Natural Planted Aquarium, Plant or Shrimp Stratum, Clay Gravel and Stable Porous Substrate for Freshwater Aquarium, Black Color (20 lbs) https://a.co/d/gkEvxpS

Landen will spike ammonia temporally, you must take steps to handle it. Spikes for about 2 weeks.

Totally slipped my mind, but absolutely!  Mmiller is an amazing resource for planted tanks information.  There are some amazing ADA quality tanks on this forum and his is definitely one of em.

found this today, might be fun to check out.
 

 

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On 10/27/2022 at 12:00 PM, BlueLineAquaticsSC said:

I’m not sure if this would work, but if the only issue is that fish are digging up the cap, you could bury some egg crate light diffuser in your substrate to create a barrier that the plants can still grow though but the fish can’t dig past.

Oh that is a great idea. Thank you! 

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