BlubAquatics Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 (edited) Hi guys! It's my first time doing a high-tech tank and I need some advice regarding the adequate CO2 concentration for my setup (1 week old). Livestock has not been added to the tank yet.Hardware: Tank: 90x30x30cm (81L) Effective water volume: ~60L Hardscape: Spider wood, seiryu rocks, tropica aquasoil in filter bags capped with ADA sand Lighting: Week Aqua P900 at 30% intensity for 8 hours a day CO2: Too many bubbles to count, but it gets turned on 1 hour before the lights go up and stops one hour before lights retire Filtration: Oase biomaster 350Plants: Quote Background: Pogostemon erectus Rotala macrandra Alternanthera reineckii ‘Rosanervig’ Rotala green Midground: Anubias nana Anubias barteri Anubias nana ‘golden’ Eriocaulon sp Vietnam Bucephalandra ‘green broad leaf’ Bucephalandra ‘velvet’ Bucephalandra ‘kadagang’ Cryptocoryne lutea ‘hobbit’ Cryptocoryne balansae Echinodorus ‘reni’ Staurogyne repens Hygrophila pinnatifida Hygrophila polysperma ‘rosanervig’ Hydrocotyle tripartita Foreground: Marsilea crenata Water parameters: I'm using a cheap pH meter and API test kit to test for pH.Aerated tank water (bubbled overnight) pH (meter): 8.33 pH (API): LR7.6, HR8.4 GH: 8 KH: 8Fresh tank water before CO2 injection pH (meter): 7.67 pH (API): LR7.2, HR7.4 GH: 8 KH: 3CO2 injection pH stats CO2 gets turned on 1 hour before lights go up. So at the 1 hour reading, that's when the lights just start. 1 hour: 6.6 (API), 6.84 (Meter) 2 hours: 6.4 (API), 6.64 (Meter)3 hours: 6.0 (API), 6.63 (Meter) <- weird that API registered such a change while the meter did not Will be updated~Optimal CO2 concentration based on pH drop What I understand is that the optimal CO2 concentration is achieved with a pH drop of 1. But which starting pH should I be looking at? Fresh tank water or aerated tank water? What should be the pH my tank water should stabilize at during CO2 injection hours? Edited October 22, 2022 by BlubAquatics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabokovfan87 Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 On 10/21/2022 at 11:30 PM, BlubAquatics said: CO2: Too many bubbles to count, but it gets turned on 1 hour before the lights go up and stops one hour before lights retire Filtration: Oase biomaster 350 I end up doing 90-120 minutes before lights on for me.... I posted a thread in the experiments for algae battles. It has a sheet in there that I found somewhere on the forums and saved. It does have details at the bottom and a chart for calculating CO2 concentration a few ways. On 10/21/2022 at 11:30 PM, BlubAquatics said: What should be the pH my tank water should stabilize at during CO2 injection hours? This all depends on where you start. It's not about dropping the PH to X..... the thing you're measuring is what was the PH drop from being dosed with the CO2 compared to off-gassed water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlubAquatics Posted October 22, 2022 Author Share Posted October 22, 2022 On 10/22/2022 at 2:33 PM, nabokovfan87 said: This all depends on where you start. It's not about dropping the PH to X..... the thing you're measuring is what was the PH drop from being dosed with the CO2 compared to off-gassed water. Yes, I have posted my starting pH. But I am not sure whether to take fresh tank water pH or off-gassed tank water as a starting point. Could you take a look and advice me on the pH target I should be hitting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabokovfan87 Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 On 10/21/2022 at 11:30 PM, BlubAquatics said: Fresh tank water before CO2 injection pH (meter): 7.67 pH (API): LR7.2, HR7.4 GH: 8 KH: 3CO2 injection pH stats CO2 gets turned on 1 hour before lights go up. So at the 1 hour reading, that's when the lights just start. 1 hour: 6.6 (API), 6.84 (Meter) 2 hours: 6.4 (API), 6.64 (Meter) What you're showing here looks accurate to me to perform well for plants. The only think you really want to see at this point (apart from PH) is that you want to see the micro bubbles across the entirety of the tank when dosing. You're typically looking for a 0.5-1.0 PH drop. @Mmiller2001 is definitely much better with this information then me. Perhaps they can give a second set of eyes and verify everything above 🙂 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlubAquatics Posted October 22, 2022 Author Share Posted October 22, 2022 On 10/22/2022 at 2:39 PM, nabokovfan87 said: What you're showing here looks accurate to me to perform well for plants. The only think you really want to see at this point (apart from PH) is that you want to see the micro bubbles across the entirety of the tank when dosing. You're typically looking for a 0.5-1.0 PH drop. Thank you! So I should be looking at fresh tank water pH and not the off-gassed tank water pH? I do see CO2 bubbles all over the tank, most are at the side where the diffuser is and fewer towards the filter pipes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabokovfan87 Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 On 10/21/2022 at 11:42 PM, BlubAquatics said: I do see CO2 bubbles all over the tank, most are at the side where the diffuser is and fewer towards the filter pipes. Yep.... You might have better (more even) circulation with a spraybar if they have one for that filter that you like. You could also look into in-line diffusers as well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmiller2001 Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 Your looking for a 1 to 1.5 pH drop from a degassed sample. Set some tank water out for 12 to 24 hours and then pH it. That's your degassed starting point. Also keep in mind that seiryu stone raises KH and your numbers will fluctuate because of the stone. I would check KH at the time of testing and compare the KH and pH against a co2 chart. https://barrreport.com/articles/co2-ph-kh-table.41/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlubAquatics Posted October 24, 2022 Author Share Posted October 24, 2022 (edited) On 10/22/2022 at 5:06 PM, Mmiller2001 said: Your looking for a 1 to 1.5 pH drop from a degassed sample. Set some tank water out for 12 to 24 hours and then pH it. That's your degassed starting point. Also keep in mind that seiryu stone raises KH and your numbers will fluctuate because of the stone. I would check KH at the time of testing and compare the KH and pH against a co2 chart. https://barrreport.com/articles/co2-ph-kh-table.41/ I managed to lower the co2 injection rate to around 3 bubble per second and here are my pH readings (de-gassed water pH is 8.33 (meter) and 8.2 (API): 1 hour - 7.24 (meter), 6.6 (API) 2 hours - 7.1 (meter), 6.6 (API) 3 hours - 6.97 (meter), 6.4 (API) 4 hours - 6.95 (Meter), 6.4 (API) 7 hours - 6.92 (Meter) Its interesting that both meter and API readings agree with each other at higher pH (>8), but at lower pH they don't. Edited October 24, 2022 by BlubAquatics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSwissAquarist Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 On 10/22/2022 at 8:30 AM, BlubAquatics said: Hi guys! It's my first time doing a high-tech tank and I need some advice regarding the adequate CO2 concentration for my setup (1 week old). Livestock has not been added to the tank yet.Hardware: Tank: 90x30x30cm (81L) Effective water volume: ~60L Hardscape: Spider wood, seiryu rocks, tropica aquasoil in filter bags capped with ADA sand Lighting: Week Aqua P900 at 30% intensity for 8 hours a day CO2: Too many bubbles to count, but it gets turned on 1 hour before the lights go up and stops one hour before lights retire Filtration: Oase biomaster 350Plants: Water parameters: I'm using a cheap pH meter and API test kit to test for pH.Aerated tank water (bubbled overnight) pH (meter): 8.33 pH (API): LR7.6, HR8.4 GH: 8 KH: 8Fresh tank water before CO2 injection pH (meter): 7.67 pH (API): LR7.2, HR7.4 GH: 8 KH: 3CO2 injection pH stats CO2 gets turned on 1 hour before lights go up. So at the 1 hour reading, that's when the lights just start. 1 hour: 6.6 (API), 6.84 (Meter) 2 hours: 6.4 (API), 6.64 (Meter)3 hours: 6.0 (API), 6.63 (Meter) <- weird that API registered such a change while the meter did not Will be updated~Optimal CO2 concentration based on pH drop What I understand is that the optimal CO2 concentration is achieved with a pH drop of 1. But which starting pH should I be looking at? Fresh tank water or aerated tank water? What should be the pH my tank water should stabilize at during CO2 injection hours? Just wanted to say: I love the scape of the tank! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlubAquatics Posted October 24, 2022 Author Share Posted October 24, 2022 On 10/24/2022 at 4:54 PM, TheSwissAquarist said: Just wanted to say: I love the scape of the tank! Thank you very much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmiller2001 Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 On 10/24/2022 at 2:10 AM, BlubAquatics said: I managed to lower the co2 injection rate to around 3 bubble per second and here are my pH readings (de-gassed water pH is 8.33 (meter) and 8.2 (API): 1 hour - 7.24 (meter), 6.6 (API) 2 hours - 7.1 (meter), 6.6 (API) 3 hours - 6.97 (meter), 6.4 (API) 4 hours - 6.95 (Meter), 6.4 (API) 7 hours - 6.92 (Meter) Its interesting that both meter and API readings agree with each other at higher pH (>8), but at lower pH they don't. It's extremely difficult to trust all hobbyist level testing kit. The only way to trust them is to calibrate them against know solution samples. When working with CO2, I do recommend dropping extra dollars on a decent pH probe. Not the cheap ones unfortunately. The only one I trust is American Marine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmiller2001 Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 American Marine PINPOINT pH Monitor + Calibration Fluids https://a.co/d/d1qajKf America Marine Inc. Pinpoint pH Controller Interface 120VAC https://a.co/d/cOHB9Wj 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyM Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 This vid helped me get in the ballpark. I had to buy the API gh/kh test kit, and I can't recommend a digital ph checker enough - a good one, here's what I got:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01ENFOHN8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Keep it calibrated, and wait for it to come up to temp (the only thing I don't like about it - the temp reading can be a bit slow): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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