Is this a True apisto pair

[Stephen Zawacki]

Hey guys so I recently went to a fish store and got a pair of apisto cacatoides, they were sold as a pair and the owner of the store said they were locally bred, what I want to ask is my female seems more aggressive than usual and chases the male around the tank and she is in and out of the two huts they have and she also has coloration on her tail. She is bright yellow too, I want to know if she truly is a female, the male is definitive and they are both younger, and also is it a breeding behavior, I have drift wood rocks and two caves, I will also attach a pic of the male too.

Edited September 27, 2022 by Stephen Zawacki

[TOtrees]

I'd be pretty confident that you have a male and a female, but dwarf cichlids are known to be a bit choosy. Just because you have a male and a female doesn't mean they'll get along. With the male retreating to the top of the tank (what I'm seeing in your pics), that tells me you don't have enough or suitable hidey places at the bottom. Add whatever form of cover you can to give them both places to retreat to and be out of sight of the other. Plants, rocks, decorations (store bought ornaments or fake plants are usually the quickest fix for this) will work. 

Then give them time to figure each other out, and cross your fingers. 

Typically, breeders will put half a dozen or more of these in a tank, and wait for individuals to choose their mates and set up territories, then remove the extras. Eg add 6-10, keep 2 (or a trio if you're lucky). 

Caution: please sort out the cover/hides/sightlines part sooner than later. I've had male fish leave the tank to avoid female aggression. Also accept my apologies if I'm reading the signs wrong. 

[Stephen Zawacki]

Ok thank you very much 

[_Eric_]

I am just getting into apistos so I will defer to some of the experts like @tolstoy21 that are on here for a better answer than I can provide.

however, I would note that there is a difference between a m/f pair and fish that have “paired” - as noted, I don’t have experience with apistos but based on what I’ve read, females that are ready to breed can get hostile to males that are not wanting to. Looks like she is in breeding dress with the bright yellow coloration (again, based on research not experience)

[Stephen Zawacki]

Ok thank you here is the updated tank I added another coconut hat so I have three caves stacked rocks and wood, and added 5 more swords. Is this what you wanted me to do?

[tolstoy21]

That setup looks perfect for cacatuoides!

The bright yellow fish is definitely a female. However, the other fish could be female as well. I only say this because you can't always go on fin color to sex cacatuodies. It's best to go by fin shape, body size, etc.

The fin shape of the fish with the orange fins has some markers to me that would have me on the fence in terms of speculating about its sex, but it is also very hard to tell from a few photos.

On the other hand, that one female is so brightly yellow makes me think the other is just as likely to be male. I'm trying to recall if I've seen females color up that much absent a male's presence. 

In my experience I find that the females can be as aggressive as the males can be towards them. Also, two females will sometimes squabble over caves, breeding spots, etc.

[TOtrees]

Nice reno!

With the additional elements, has the male found a place to hang out away from the female's rage? 😛 ie a place that's not the top of the tank? 

Another (super easy) suggestion is to turn the entrance of the coco hut away from the middle of the tank, so whichever fish is in it can have a sense of being hidden. 

What you want to see is both fish able to do their own thing and not charge at or retreat from the other, most of the time. At feeding time they should both come out and initially sort of disregard each other, then might get snippy but it shouldn't last and they should go back to their places. Hopefully, they'll each figure out how to act around the other, and over time decide if they want to "work things out". 

Have you thought about dither fish? Half a dozen green neons, ember tetras, cardinals, pencilfish or similar might help. Same for a quad or half dozen cories. 

[Stephen Zawacki]

Ok thank you!, if I did ember tetras would you do like 6 of them and a trio of Corey’s? 

[TheSwissAquarist]

I agree with @tolstoy21, the other fish looks just like my breeding female.

 

[Stephen Zawacki]

So are you agreeing that I have a pair? More color in the tail in the second pic and longer fins and body is more dull than the female 

 

I think ten first is a female and then the second is the male 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Stephen Zawacki

[TheSwissAquarist]

Whichever’s bigger, if there’s no change after a month, they’re both females.

[Stephen Zawacki]

Ok sounds good, they were sold as a true pair was I dooped, because they do look very different the one that I think is a male is duller in the body and the tail is very colorful, and the female is yellow the male I have two pics fins are longer too 

[TheSwissAquarist]

What species were they sold as?

This kind of thing seems to be happening once a week or so, on the forum.

[Stephen Zawacki]

They were sold as apistogramma cacatoides m + f pair 

[tolstoy21]

To my eyes, I'm seeing two females. But I've been wrong at times, and if these fish are still young, the second fish can develop more.

Below is a photo of a younger male that's just coming into spawning age.

Notice how much longer the dorsal and tail extensions are. The males dorsal fin will typically extend out past the base of the tail, while a female's will not.

Also, the male dorsal will be long/exaggerated around the third spine or so as seen in this slightly older male.

Females on the other hand, have a much less exaggerated dorsal, which, in my experience, usually begins with a touch of black (but not always). And the longer dorsal spine is usually much closer to the beginning. Also, notice how the dorsal and anal fins don't extend much past the base of the tail, if at all.

As you can see below, fin color can be dramatic in females as well. And while the below female is in breeding yellow, it will be much more drab and olive/grey when it's not in spawning mode.

Males's will also typically get this 'new-father/pop-eye' ailment when their mates suddenly surprise them with a very large spawn.

Hopefully this helps some.

And, as is always the case, some males will just take longer to take on male characteristics, and will retain a 'female look' longer than others.

Edited September 28, 2022 by tolstoy21

[Stephen Zawacki]

Would you recommend me getting a true male and another true female?

[tolstoy21]

I would recommend giving it a few months to see how things develop and it you have a true pair or not. You definitely have at least one female. If the other fish doesn't develop exaggerated finnage or grown much larger than your known female in a few months time, then just purchase a male. This way you'll have one male and two females, which is a good combination. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by tolstoy21

[anewbie]

It is 100% not a pair because cockatoo do not pair. Also cockatoo are not picky; a mature male will happily breed with any female that is ready to breed in his territory. 

[TheSwissAquarist]

Thanks @anewbie, I expect that settles it, but I’ll just repeat my advice to wait a month and see if there’s any noticeable size difference.