Livebearers

[CJs Aquatics]

What’s up everybody, 

so I’ve heard before livebearers add a hormone to the water column that encourages other fish as well as other livebearers to breed. Does anyone know anything about this? Is it true? Has it worked for you? Any scientific articles, or journals published you could refer me to I’m just interested in this topic, thanks

[AllFishNoBrakes]

I’ve seen some videos of people claiming “my fish are spawning, so I’m removing water from the breeding tank cuz there’s hormones in the water, and I’m gonna add that to other tanks that I want to breed”. 
 

That being said, I’ve never personally seen it. I like to keep community tanks that have multiple opportunities to raise spawns from, and I’ve just never seen it happen. My Peacock Gudgeons spawning hasn’t fueled the Cory’s spawning and vice versa. Rams spawning hasn't triggered the Cory’s in that tank. Even my Angel tank that has multiple pairs; one pair spawning has never sparked a different pair to spawn. 
 

Now, that’s just all first-hand jargon, and not scientific-grade research. I’m not sure how you’d quantify “these fish spawned BECAUSE of hormones in the water that I transferred” vs “these fish would’ve spawned anyways without me putting hormone-fueled water into the tank”. 
 

Just my personal experience and 2 cents (if it’s even worth that much). 

[CJs Aquatics]

That’s very insightful actually, it makes perfect sense, I can’t say I believe one way or another which is part of the reason I’m trying to get some answers on it. Like you personally it’s something I’ve never seen or tried, just heard of, I keep livebearers and have never noticed them spawning making other things want to spawn but I have heard it so I’ve been wondering

[AllFishNoBrakes]

For sure. It’s entirely possible that there’s something to it; I’ve just never personally seen it. 
 

I tend to take first-hand experience more seriously that something I read or see in a video. I also think that half the fun of this hobby is, “I wonder what would happen if…”, so I like to see for myself and compare that to things I’ve read or seen. 

[CJs Aquatics]

I agree with you 100% I just like to hear and read about what others may have experienced as well

[AllFishNoBrakes]

Likewise. I’m excited to see what others have to say!

[CJs Aquatics]

Agreed 

[Scapexghost]

I think its more likely that a fish sees a bunch of baby guppies swimming around and this signals to them that it is a safe place to raise fry. Could be both though, either, or neither, im just speculating.

[WhitecloudDynasty]

The only time I heard about adding hormones into the water to get fish to spawn is when they are working with a species that is hard to breed or won't breed in aquarium, like roseline shark..

[CJs Aquatics]

@WhitecloudDynasty it’s not so much adding them, I’ve heard that livebearers produce a hormone when they are prepping to as well as in the act of spawning which signals other fish to breed. It would be released into the water column naturally, and I’ve heard of people using this to trigger other harder to spawn species to spawn but I’ve never seen anything scientific on the subject…

[WhitecloudDynasty]

On 9/26/2022 at 12:26 AM, CJs Aquatics said:

@WhitecloudDynasty it’s not so much adding them, I’ve heard that livebearers produce a hormone when they are prepping to as well as in the act of spawning which signals other fish to breed. It would be released into the water column naturally, and I’ve heard of people using this to trigger other harder to spawn species to spawn but I’ve never seen anything scientific on the subject…

I'm not 100% sure about that since livebearers breed almost everyday right?

I have seen wild shiner spawn and itll trigger other species to join, but most of the time it's a fast stream so whatever is in that water is already downstream

[CJs Aquatics]

@WhitecloudDynasty I’m honestly not sure at all eighter it’s just what I’ve heard, I’ve heard of so many different spawning triggers I figured I would reach out to everyone and see if anyone knew or had any experience 

[WhitecloudDynasty]

On 9/26/2022 at 12:33 AM, CJs Aquatics said:

@WhitecloudDynasty I’m honestly not sure at all eighter it’s just what I’ve heard, I’ve heard of so many different spawning triggers I figured I would reach out to everyone and see if anyone knew or had any experience 

I know breeder in Thailand add hormone to get some of the harder species to spawn 

 

[CJs Aquatics]

what type of species if I may ask?

[WhitecloudDynasty]

On 9/26/2022 at 12:43 AM, CJs Aquatics said:

what type of species if I may ask?

Roseline shark, that's when I was still talking to the breeder that bred the gold roseline. 

[CJs Aquatics]

Not gonna lie that’s pretty awesome…I’m wondering if there would be a way to measure hormones in the water column like we are able to test for everything else… that would potentially put this mystery to rest

[TheSwissAquarist]

I'll have a look into it...😈

But apart from that I can't see the difference when you change water from a breeding tank to another tank. I've tried that but my Apistos still won't spawn.

[CJs Aquatics]

@TheSwissAquarist personally I don’t know that it’s true but I suppose I can see probability in both sides… from the limited knowledge I have about hormones I do know they can alter a lot of things, and as @WhitecloudDynasty said I also have heard of people using them on fish for breeding, so it wouldn’t surprise me if it were the case, but I haven’t heard anyone prove it scientifically so I personally lean towards it’s probably less then likely, in any case, if concentrated forms of hormones have been used before perhaps if they do release any it may not be enough or perhaps it is, perhaps it is removed by other things we use in the tanks like filtrations or substrates or perhaps absorbed, maybe it takes a certain amount to trigger or maybe it’s not a thing at all, it’s all still up in the air honestly 

[TheSwissAquarist]

I have seen in parts of Eastern Europe fish are bred after hormonal treatment (injections??) such as Siamese Algae Eaters and Redtail Sharks, but I have found that these offspring aren't as fit and healthy as their wild-caught parents.

[CJs Aquatics]

@TheSwissAquarist maybe I will also dig deeper with the research and find out if the hormone they inject is made naturally in freshwater fish and what processes are responsible for its occurrence as well as how is it measured 

[TheSwissAquarist]

I’ve got school now but I’ll be happy to help a bit later!

[gardenman]

In the aquaculture world, hormonal injections are commonly used to encourage breeding. Lots of stuff has been published about it. Here's a link to a Texas A&M series of articles on it. Induced Spawning - Aquaculture, Fisheries, & Pond Management (tamu.edu) (Farther down that page is an article titled "Hormone-induced spawning of cultured tropical finfishes" from the French Research Institute for the Exploitation of the Sea with many references to other articles. 

As to hormones in the water column, I've seen the breeders of exotic plecos use guppies and other livebearers to encourage their plecos to breed. I would assume it works since they do it and they believe it works. You want to minimize water changes while doing so for the hormones to reach a substantial level, but it's a fairly common practice among that group of breeders. Most common aquarium fish breed readily, so most of the time you don't need to encourage breeding. Just give them adequate conditions and they'll breed, but some of the more exotic plecos are a bit more challenging so the addition of hormones seems to help. (Or at least the breeders think they do.)

 

[TheSwissAquarist]

Wow, thanks @gardenman! 

[CJs Aquatics]

@gardenman thank you so much 

[lefty o]

On 9/25/2022 at 10:58 PM, Scapexghost said:

I think its more likely that a fish sees a bunch of baby guppies swimming around and this signals to them that it is a safe place to raise fry. Could be both though, either, or neither, im just speculating.

yup, safe place to raise fry, and a source of food for the adults.