I need shipping fish bag advice. Someone wants my guppies !!!

[KittenFishMom]

Someone has offered to take some of my guppies. 

@Guppysnail and @Fish Folk andeveryone else:

I need to get fish shipping bags. I has watched lots of videos. some recommend breathable other recommend double bagging.

I need to know what size bags and how many guppies I can put in a bag. 

I have a shipping box that has a thick Styrofoam box inside, I'll get the measurements.

Will I need a heater this time of year?

Is it better to ship the fish  when they are smaller or bigger? I have all sizes.

All advice welcome !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited September 19, 2022 by KittenFishMom
Added more questions

[Fish Folk]

I use breather bags. I prefer “Long-Life” or “Kordon,” but all I could order recently were the “Aquatic Arts” bags.

Be sure theres no air in the bags, just water. I’m obsessive with rubber-banding them, especially if there’s not enough to tie a knot.

I use exactly 2-cups of clean tank water with a few drops of Amquel or Prime added. That fits in one bag. I only pack one adult small fish per bag. If you ship babies, you can put multiples in. Most shippers use dechlorinated tap water, but I don’t.

I line the inside of the styro inside the box with paper towels to absorb moisture, and to pad.

This time of year, you shouldn’t need a heat or cold pack for Guppies.

Here is a helpful recent thread…

 

[Guppysnail]

I have only shipped fish 4 times. I always insist on overnight because I’m not experienced at it. 

[KittenFishMom]

@Fish Folk The only ones I found on the site I looked at were$12 for 10 “Aquatic Arts”.  I was hoping to ship a lot of guppies, but at 1 or 2 fish per bag, that won't make a dent in my over populated tanks. Can you sent me a mail with the places you order your bags? I don't think we can put store names in post.

@Guppysnail I figured I would do over night. But I was hoping to put a lot of fish in the box.  How many adult or young guppies would you put in a shipping bag?

[Fish Folk]

On 9/19/2022 at 4:21 PM, KittenFishMom said:

@Fish Folk The only ones I found on the site I looked at were$12 for 10 “Aquatic Arts”.  I was hoping to ship a lot of guppies, but at 1 or 2 fish per bag, that won't make a dent in my over populated tanks. Can you sent me a mail with the places you order your bags? I don't think we can put store names in post.

This is the same price I pay. For example, just today, I shipped out 6x Guppies in 6x breather bags. I charge the buyer $20 for the USPS Priority Mail box. They also bid $20 for the fish at the online auction. So, from my bottom line . . . I have to deduct the breather bags (-$6), the styrofoam, paper towel, tape, and paper I print stuff on. Basically, I'm down to selling at $2 or less a fish at that rate. Plus . . . my time . . . goodness . . . keep your day job!

If you want to ship a LOT of fish, and have access to some durable 3 mil fish bags -- or if you want to double bag fish store bags -- you will want to find someone who can help you put oxygen in your bags. Do you know anyone who uses oxygen to weld? Or has oxygen at home for medical use? You basically want 1/3 of your bag to be  at least 95%-pure O2. If you do that, and otherwise pack responsibly, your fish can typically survive for 5 days or so in the box as long as they don't overheat or get thrashed by rough handlers. But if you don't know anyone who can help with that, it is not easy to successfully ship fish.

You will be safer with shipping overnight.

And yes, it will cost someone their firstborn child and a leg . . . 

[KittenFishMom]

The outside of the shipping box is 13" X 14" X15 1/2" The inside of the Styrofoam box is 9" X 10" X12".

The cat kept helping me measure, but that gives you the general size. 

If I over night the box, it will cost a fair bit, but I want the fish to arrive safely.  I would hate to open a box of dead fish, and I don't want to do that to my fish or to someone else. 

I think the ratio of water to air is 1/4 water to 3/4 air. With breathable bags, I would guess that you need to leave that much air in packing in the box, so the fish have enough oxygen. oxygen is not going to easily pass through 1.5 inches on Styrofoam on each side.

[Fish Folk]

On 9/19/2022 at 4:35 PM, KittenFishMom said:

The outside of the shipping box is 13" X 14" X15 1/2" The inside of the Styrofoam box is 9" X 10" X12".

The cat kept helping me measure, but that gives you the general size. 

If I over night the box, it will cost a fair bit, but I want the fish to arrive safely.  I would hate to open a box of dead fish, and I don't want to do that to my fish or to someone else. 

I think the ratio of water to air is 1/4 water to 3/4 air. With breathable bags, I would guess that you need to leave that much air in packing in the box, so the fish have enough oxygen. oxygen is not going to easily pass through 1.5 inches on Styrofoam on each side.

Is the styrofoam sealed? Air passes through cardboard and sheet-styrofoam-lined boxes fine. If you're using a styrofoam cooler designed for medical grade shipping, you might have supply issues.

Believe me, you do NOT want to have things loose inside a box. Those parcels get chucked off of planes, flipped around, banged up . . . it's a crime scene. Even when you mark "fragile," trust me . . . it can be brutal.

I have had minimal problems shipping my way. I lost a couple Rams once. But several more in that box survived. Rams are finicky to ship. I learned my process from Greg Sage at Select Aquatics. He's a master.

I'll tag @tolstoy21 here. I've ordered fish from him, and they've arrived in great shape. I know he's got more experience, and can offer some perspective. I'd rate his advice over my input.

[KittenFishMom]

The Styrofoam liner in the box is built like a cooler with a tight fitting lid.

[tolstoy21]

On 9/19/2022 at 4:35 PM, KittenFishMom said:

The outside of the shipping box is 13" X 14" X15 1/2" The inside of the Styrofoam box is 9" X 10" X12".

The cat kept helping me measure, but that gives you the general size. 

If I over night the box, it will cost a fair bit, but I want the fish to arrive safely.  I would hate to open a box of dead fish, and I don't want to do that to my fish or to someone else. 

I think the ratio of water to air is 1/4 water to 3/4 air. With breathable bags, I would guess that you need to leave that much air in packing in the box, so the fish have enough oxygen. oxygen is not going to easily pass through 1.5 inches on Styrofoam on each side.

I'm pretty sure O2 can permeate Styrofoam fine, at least at the rate fish consume it.

I've shipped a lot of fish in breather bags in 1" stryo-lined boxes without much air space, or what air space there was stuffed with packing materials. I've never lost a shipment due to the fish running out of O2 that I know of. My losses are typically from leaky bags or delayed shipments in high heat.

Now, I'm not suggesting one should cram them into the box without any wiggle room at all. But 'some' space is needed in my experience, and by some I mean, just don't have the breather bags in direct contact with each other or the stryo walls. If you have a finger's with between them, that's sufficient.

As for regular bags, I bag in pure O2 and go 50/50 water/O2 (or more if I have space in the box). I'd guess 1/4 water, 3/4 regular old air is probably about right, but don't have direct experience with that myself.

Edited September 19, 2022 by tolstoy21

[tolstoy21]

On 9/19/2022 at 3:22 PM, KittenFishMom said:

I need to get fish shipping bags. I has watched lots of videos. some recommend breathable other recommend double bagging.

I need to know what size bags and how many guppies I can put in a bag. 

I have a shipping box that has a thick Styrofoam box inside, I'll get the measurements.

Will I need a heater this time of year?

Is it better to ship the fish  when they are smaller or bigger? I have all sizes.

Ok I'll tackle these in order.

1) I gave up on breather bags because they have a higher failure rate than double-bagged poly bags. Double-bagged poly bags almost never fail. (I've personally never had one fail).

2) I'll be honest, I'm not sure there is a science to how many to put in a bag. If there is, I haven't learned it yet!  I tend to put no more than three 1 inch fish in a 4" wide bag. I don't put more than three 2 inch fish in a 6" wide bag. If I can get away bagging one fish per bag, that is my preference. But that's all just guess work based on what's worked for me. Really, I just look at the fish in the bag and make a judgement call on if they look cramped or will pollute themselves to death if they happen go to the bathroom in the bag. 

3) Put a heat pack in the box if it's going to be less that 60F at the destination. Anything above that, most species of fish are perfectly fine. Always tape it to the lid and make sure there is room between it and the fish.

4) I like to ship smaller fish because there is a larger water-to-fish ratio in the bag. Also, it allows smaller, lighter boxes which = less shipping costs.

5) You also asked if over night shipping is better? Yes, but . . . . . I think overnight is best when it's going to be 90F+ at the shipping destination.  And by overnight I mean it has to arrive at the customer before noon. Anything that lasts in a truck past noon on a 90F+ day has its fate thrown to the wind!  If I see a package delayed until the afternoon and its status is marked 'out for delivery' on a 90F day-- I expect to receive pictures from the customer of bags filled with fish stew. This is the only reason overnight is sometimes a necessity. 2nd-Day delivery is 100% fine in normal temps. Also, I find that delays at shipping hubs are fine EXCEPT those in Dallas TX.  Anything held there in the summer, delayed for the day -- that also becomes fish stew.  Fish casualties typically happen in the last stretch of the journey which occurs in the back of a hot delivery vehicle.

I hope this long-winded response helps some.

Edited September 19, 2022 by tolstoy21

[Fish Folk]

Spot on @tolstoy21

Only place I've lost fish: Dallas hub. Check ✅ 

Only conditions I've lost fish: 90-F+. Check ✅

Now . . . I have had very good experiences so far with breather bags, but I'm waiting for that day to arrive . . .

[tolstoy21]

On 9/20/2022 at 1:03 AM, Fish Folk said:

Now . . . I have had very good experiences so far with breather bags, but I'm waiting for that day to arrive . . .

Yeah I don't know what happened, but last winter my failure rate with breather bags went waaaay up. Maybe I started being lazy with how I tied them? maybe it was a defective batch?

Oddly enough, I still ship shrimp in breather bags and have yet to have an issue with any of those shipments.

Since I've switched to double-bagged poly bags and O2 and sealing with an impulse sealer, I find I can pack things much quicker.  Not sure why.  

However, nothing beats breather bags for the economy their box space utilization. 

Edited September 20, 2022 by tolstoy21