Is this idea good, bad, or terrible? Tub pond overwintering a goldfish...

[PineSong]

I've already decided that next year I am breeding NOTHING in my summer tub pond. I definitely want to have the pond again because I love it, but it will either just be summer vacation for some combination of my existing fish that won't breed or ...

I was thinking of putting a pair of young goldfish in it when I pull my other fish out in the fall. The goldfish could enjoy the duckweed and other plants, maybe eat one or two thousand of the baby snails too and then next summer they can just keep on being pond fish.

Here are the deets, tell me what  you think the problems will be and/or why it's a dumb idea:

It's a 100g black stock tank with a large 4" airstone running now, electric right nearby if needed for filter or heater.

I live in the flat part of Kentucky, so we do have cold and freezing days and the pond would need a heater or de-icer I assume.

I have no filter on the pond, it is chock full of plants including anacharis, guppy grass, bacopis, swords, water lilies, corkscrew val, and chain swords; floaters include frogbit, mini water lettuce and salvinia plus duckweed.

No signs of predatory critters like raccoons so far.

What do you guys think? 

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2022 by PineSong
Added photo

[Flumpweesel]

Do it, you might be in limited time to get their weight up before a cold spell but as long as it's doesn't freeze to deep they should be fine. 

Keep just make sure to keep breaking the surface ice up.

My dad has some fish in a bathtub in the back field (rescue fish but the pond never got dug). They have survived about 5 winters. Your tub sounds like goldy paradise.

They are going to eat your plants though.

[PineSong]

On 9/2/2022 at 4:46 PM, Flumpweesel said:

Do it, you might be in limited time to get their weight up before a cold spell but as long as it's doesn't freeze to deep they should be fine. 

Keep just make sure to keep breaking the surface ice up.

My dad has some fish in a bathtub in the back field (rescue fish but the pond never got dug). They have survived about 5 winters. Your tub sounds like goldy paradise.

They are going to eat your plants though.

Do you think I can get by without a filter? I will keep the airstone running and put a heater in December through March.

[Flumpweesel]

Probably yes, if I refer back to the bathtub pond that has no filter. I know lots of successful filter free ponds. I'm keeping my out a reasonable solar air pump for it.

Don't go crazy on your stock keep feeding light they are going to eat that duck weed no matter what you do so you don't want to giving them to much extra.  

Are you keeping air running all winter?

I'm planning a pond in my tiny yard but it has to wait for now to many other jobs to do first.

[PineSong]

I'm going to do it. I will probably buy the goldfish this weekend as I want time to do a 3-4 week QT on them before they go in the pond as the WCMMs will still be out there for a while. Maybe I should do a time lapse photo series of the duckweed disappearing, lol. Actually, if I get small enough goldfish successfully QT'd I might use them as hired guns in all my tanks before they go into the pond.

[modified lung]

I've done it too. The goldfish did breed though. Even though I told them not to.

[PineSong]

On 9/3/2022 at 12:50 PM, modified lung said:

I've done it too. The goldfish did breed though. Even though I told them not to.

Well, I have the little comets in my QT tank. They have ok appetites for food but do not appear to recognize duckweed (or any of the other plants in the QT) as edible. I do not want to stress them additionally by letting them get super hungry right now, but maybe next week. It has been at least 15 years since I QT'd a goldfish, so I kind of feel like I'm back to being a beginner. Fingers crossed for the little chubsters.

 

[Anjum]

I saw some amazing Koi the other day so now I want a koi pond. Maybe next year. For now I'll live vicariously through your goldfish. 

Oh btw, WCMM & goldfish can live together harmoniously? 

 

 

[Patrick_G]

Do it! I love my little pond and my goldfish. 

[PineSong]

On 9/5/2022 at 5:01 PM, Anjum said:

I saw some amazing Koi the other day so now I want a koi pond. Maybe next year. For now I'll live vicariously through your goldfish. 

Oh btw, WCMM & goldfish can live together harmoniously? 

 

Well, they can both handle unheated water for the rest of the fall. I'm not sure how safe the WCMMs would be from the comets when the comets are fully grown, but for now, they WCMMs are safe from being eaten because the comets are babies. I will be bringing the white clouds in for the fall, just not as early as the guppies and swordtails.  I think I have 3 weeks or so, weather-wise, to get those guys in the house so my plan is to QT these goldfish for that amount of time, catch all the guppies and swordtails over the course of the QT period then put the goldfish out. 

[Patrick_G]

On 9/2/2022 at 7:03 PM, PineSong said:

Do you think I can get by without a filter? I will keep the airstone running and put a heater in December through March.

You should be able to get by without a filter when they’re not eating. 

On 9/5/2022 at 11:40 AM, PineSong said:

Well, I have the little comets in my QT tank.

Pics! I’m excited 😆 

[PineSong]

On 9/5/2022 at 5:52 PM, Patrick_G said:

You should be able to get by without a filter when they’re not eating. 

Pics! I’m excited 😆 

Hmm. When they ARE eating, e.g. hopefully eating duckweed plus 1000 baby snails, would a sponge filter be enough, or do I need a ....whatever the equivalent of a HOB would be for a pond? I was hoping to avoid setting up a whole canister system. Am I just being thickheaded?

[Patrick_G]

On 9/5/2022 at 3:02 PM, PineSong said:

Hmm. When they ARE eating, e.g. hopefully eating duckweed plus 1000 baby snails, would a sponge filter be enough, or do I need a ....whatever the equivalent of a HOB would be for a pond? I was hoping to avoid setting up a whole canister system. Am I just being thickheaded?

Sorry, I jumped ahead to late fall when they go dormant. They won’t need much filtration then. 
Until then a sponge will work great. I use one medium sponge plus a homemade version of this thing. 

 

[rockfisher]

I sorry I didn’t read all the post. I remember that in Minnesota they placed big carp that looked like koi. I think that they where some sort of gold fish in the cattle troughs in the pastures. They lived through the winter there. They said the fish ate the mess the cows left in the water. They were bigger concrete troughs. They didn’t freeze over but I’m not sure why but I know that they were not heated. 

[modified lung]

On 9/5/2022 at 2:50 PM, PineSong said:

I'm not sure how safe the WCMMs would be from the comets when the comets are fully grown, but for now, they WCMMs are safe from being eaten because the comets are babies.

When I added golden whiteclouds, the comets immediately tried to eat them but the comets were still to small. Everyone survived and after a few weeks all was forgiven and the whiteclouds and the comets started shoaling together. The comets never tried again, even after they grew big enough.

On 9/5/2022 at 3:02 PM, PineSong said:

I was hoping to avoid setting up a whole canister system. Am I just being thickheaded?

I didn't have any filtration in my 100 gal stock tank with 4 comets for a few years. Just an air stone or solar water pump. I switched to the water pump because the air pump heated up the water to much in the summer. It stays over 100°F for months here. There was lots of elodea and duckweed too.

But I also very rarely fed them. They were still fat though. I think they were mostly eating snails and insects. 

I think your pond will work out fine.

[Hobbit]

@PineSong it sounds like a ton of fun! I’ve used boiling water from my tea kettle to melt ice on my outdoor tub when I had to. I’m sure it gets colder where you are but your pond is also bigger.

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Ahh @Patrick_G that’s so cool! Do you have a way for the birds to get out of the pond if they jump in to take a bath? Apparently owls can’t judge the depth of water and can get stuck in troughs.

[Patrick_G]

On 9/6/2022 at 5:17 AM, Hobbit said:

@PineSong it sounds like a ton of fun! I’ve used boiling water from my tea kettle to melt ice on my outdoor tub when I had to. I’m sure it gets colder where you are but your pond is also bigger.

Ahh @Patrick_G that’s so cool! Do you have a way for the birds to get out of the pond if they jump in to take a bath? Apparently owls can’t judge the depth of water and can get stuck in troughs.

I have some mesh covers that I use during baby owl season. They only seem to bother the pond when they’re newly fledged. They do all kinds of weird stuff until they learn how to be owls. This year they seems to like to lay down in the gravel driveway!