Cinnebuns Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 I was warned paracleanse can crash your cycle so I have been dosing bottled bacteria lately while running paracleanse. 2 hours ago I discovered the cycle did indeed crash! No ammonia but a ton of nitrite. I did a 50% wc and dosed 1/4 of the bottle of bottled bacteria and 1 dose of prime. Injust tested again and it's super high! Ik it will take time to stabilize but I also have to take action how too. Ik too many wc is bad too. Would you do another wc tonight or just wait till tomorrow? Probably gonna do full 1 to 4 more doses prime at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modified lung Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 Too much water change can slow your cycle but so can too much nitrite. Back when I used to cycle 50+ tanks a year and tested 2-3 times a week, I noticed if nitrite went much above 1 ppm, it would often hang at that level sometimes for months until it was water changed below that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnebuns Posted August 31, 2022 Author Share Posted August 31, 2022 On 8/30/2022 at 11:03 PM, modified lung said: Too much water change can slow your cycle but so can too much nitrite. Back when I used to cycle 50+ tanks a year and tested 2-3 times a week, I noticed if nitrite went much above 1 ppm, it would often hang at that level sometimes for months until it was water changed below that. This isn't cycling. This is my main tank cycle CRASH. I just spent an hour getting as many fish and snails out as I can but I hope I don't now cause an overload in the other tanks. I had 2 under stocked but it's still an addition of ammonia it didn't have before. I'm adding bottled bacteria to those tanks instead of this one because of that. Uprooted basically everything but the Amazon sword and the crypt wendetii ofc haha Still 2 stubborn hillstream loach jerks that won't just jump in the net for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardedbillygoat1975 Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 I would keep lightly phantom feeding this tank, replant it and don’t give up. You may get some diatoms, bacterial and algae blooms it’s par for the course. Add some prime for your loach homies and keep water changing 30-50% every couple of days. What’s done is done. What’s the pH typically in there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnebuns Posted August 31, 2022 Author Share Posted August 31, 2022 On 8/31/2022 at 12:15 AM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said: I would keep lightly phantom feeding this tank, replant it and don’t give up. You may get some diatoms, bacterial and algae blooms it’s par for the course. Add some prime for your loach homies and keep water changing 30-50% every couple of days. What’s done is done. What’s the pH typically in there? Like 7.6 to 7.8. It's on. I checked that On 8/31/2022 at 12:15 AM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said: I would keep lightly phantom feeding this tank, replant it and don’t give up. You may get some diatoms, bacterial and algae blooms it’s par for the course. Add some prime for your loach homies and keep water changing 30-50% every couple of days. What’s done is done. What’s the pH typically in there? Every couple days? Not every day? I guess not as big of a deal with almost everyone out lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabokovfan87 Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 On 8/30/2022 at 8:30 PM, Cinnebuns said: Ik too many wc is bad too. Would you do another wc tonight or just wait till tomorrow? If it's been 12 hours, I would do a second WC. When I have severe issues I will do one in the AM and one in the PM as need be. Whenever I spike nitrite / Ammonia really high I immediately do a big WC and then dose salt (helps with the burn). I generally don't dose prime or use those to detoxify anything. I am not saying it's a good or bad idea, just that I personally don't do that. It is added as part of the WC, but I won't go out of my way to dose 5x dose or anything, I would verify the pump and impeller are working at full force, go ahead and do a deep clean on that, and then keep an eye on it. Sometimes you'll get that bacteria snot and that will delay the ability for the bacteria to take hold (snot it really hard to get through is the best way I can explain it). If you're specifically able to, I would also dose in bacteria in a bottle after a few days of severe issues. Especially if you're seeing the snot, that usually "helps" when I get to that point in a bad crash / equipment failure. Final thing I would suggest, is dropping in an airstone if you haven't already. Especially if you're adding salt. On 8/30/2022 at 8:30 PM, Cinnebuns said: Injust tested again and it's super high! Test the tap water also for nitrite / ammonia. Chloramines could show up as ammonia, so if you see ammonia, run an off-gas test. On 8/30/2022 at 8:30 PM, Cinnebuns said: I did a 50% wc and dosed 1/4 of the bottle of bottled bacteria and 1 dose of prime. Perfect On 8/30/2022 at 9:57 PM, Cinnebuns said: I just spent an hour getting as many fish and snails out as I can but I hope I don't now cause an overload in the other tanks. If you're removing the fish / snails you can just do a full WC and you don't have to worry about much of anything until you get parameters where you need to. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardedbillygoat1975 Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 Exactly, take your time and build it back the right way. I’m sure you’ll need that water change time for the refugee tanks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenja Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 Do you have any filter media from the tanks you moved your inhabitants to that you can put in that tank? I'd trust the bacteria from that to re-establish the cycle more than I'd trust the bottled stuff. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnebuns Posted August 31, 2022 Author Share Posted August 31, 2022 On 8/31/2022 at 3:54 AM, Jenja said: Do you have any filter media from the tanks you moved your inhabitants to that you can put in that tank? I'd trust the bacteria from that to re-establish the cycle more than I'd trust the bottled stuff. On 8/31/2022 at 4:00 AM, Pepere said: I find just cleaning a sponge filter or filter floss, or even swishing other media, from a good tank in a bucket of tank water and pouring that into the tank with nitrite or ammonia spike will reestablish bacteria colony far faster than bacteria in a bottle. I did that even before I moved the inhabitants and back in after ofc. I just pulled everything out to catch them. So I'm doing both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenja Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 Ah, makes sense. 👍 Sounds like it's just a matter of controlling the nitrite to 1ppm or less like @modified lung suggested, and time at this point. Don't envy you the extra WCs, here's hoping it settles back into a cycle soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnebuns Posted August 31, 2022 Author Share Posted August 31, 2022 On 8/31/2022 at 4:29 AM, Jenja said: Ah, makes sense. 👍 Sounds like it's just a matter of controlling the nitrite to 1ppm or less like @modified lung suggested, and time at this point. Don't envy you the extra WCs, here's hoping it settles back into a cycle soon! I kinda had a freak out moment. I haven't seen nitrites since I cycled! Then I got it together and ideas poured out. I will say I'm just getting over a pretty bad illness. Today was the first day I wasn't in bed all day since Thursday. Adrenaline got me through that all but now Im worried I pushed my recovery backwards. I really hope that's not the case. I can't afford to not be monitoring this!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenja Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 Oh dang, this on top of recent illness for you? That sucks so hard! Any chance you have a minion...ahem, family member, I meant to say, able to help with the necessary WCs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnebuns Posted August 31, 2022 Author Share Posted August 31, 2022 On 8/31/2022 at 4:59 AM, Jenja said: Oh dang, this on top of recent illness for you? That sucks so hard! Any chance you have a minion...ahem, family member, I meant to say, able to help with the necessary WCs? Yes and no. I live alone but I bet if I begged enough my dad would be willing to help out just 1 time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Eric_ Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 a couple of points- Bottled bacteria usually need a little bit of time before they get out of the water column. If you are doing frequent water changes, you should probably hold off on the bottled bacteria as a lot would be wasted. Nitrite levels can slow down growth of nitrite eating bacteria for some strains but does not affect others (nitrobacter will not have issue I believe) which is why you sometimes see conflicting info on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnebuns Posted August 31, 2022 Author Share Posted August 31, 2022 On 8/31/2022 at 7:05 AM, _Eric_ said: a couple of points- Bottled bacteria usually need a little bit of time before they get out of the water column. If you are doing frequent water changes, you should probably hold off on the bottled bacteria as a lot would be wasted. Nitrite levels can slow down growth of nitrite eating bacteria for some strains but does not affect others (nitrobacter will not have issue I believe) which is why you sometimes see conflicting info on this. Ty this does help. I wondered that about the bottled bacteria. I think now that I've moved almost everyone I'm gonna dose the refugee tanks more.actually. The hillstreams are.gonna have to make do with prime and prayers. Their own slippery fault! That's also good to know for the levels means I might wanna do a wc even without a huge threat to the animals. Is there a level you suggest staying under? Maybe 2ppm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnebuns Posted August 31, 2022 Author Share Posted August 31, 2022 On 8/31/2022 at 8:28 AM, Pepere said: Depending on what fish might be in tank, recovery of bacteria happens faster at ph nearer to 8, temp nearer to 80 F 26-27 c, and with extra aeration, so adding an airstone or two. Right now the only fish in there is some stubborn hillstream loaches. I got everyone else out. Maybe some random nerites buried in the substrate but I never know where those ninjas are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick_G Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 On 8/31/2022 at 2:00 AM, Pepere said: I find just cleaning a sponge filter or filter floss, or even swishing other media, from a good tank in a bucket of tank water and pouring that into the tank with nitrite or ammonia spike will reestablish bacteria colony far faster than bacteria in a bottle. I agree, I’d poach as much media as possible from cycled filters. I understand that the BB multiplies quickly, but I’d be testing regularly and adding fish back slowly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnebuns Posted August 31, 2022 Author Share Posted August 31, 2022 On 8/31/2022 at 9:48 AM, Patrick_G said: I agree, I’d poach as much media as possible from cycled filters. I understand that the BB multiplies quickly, but I’d be testing regularly and adding fish back slowly. I just had that thought. Maybe add 1 species at a time but cories in 2 groups because there are more of them. Basically like stocking a brand new tank. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnebuns Posted August 31, 2022 Author Share Posted August 31, 2022 Big momma guppy is late for dropping right now. Maybe she predicted the future and knew I would need the space and held them in. 🤷♀️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjum Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 On 8/31/2022 at 2:49 AM, Cinnebuns said: I will say I'm just getting over a pretty bad illness. Today was the first day I wasn't in bed all day since Thursday. Adrenaline got me through that all but now Im worried I pushed my recovery backwards. I really hope that's not the case. I can't afford to not be monitoring this!! Get as much rest as you can! Sleep is imperative to healing. Hope you feel better soon & the tank rights itself. I think you're on the right track. Best wishes ☺️ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabokovfan87 Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 On 8/31/2022 at 7:13 AM, Cinnebuns said: Right now the only fish in there is some stubborn hillstream loaches. I got everyone else out. Maybe some random nerites buried in the substrate but I never know where those ninjas are. Try making a snail trap. For the loaches, I usually use a specimen container when things get real bad and pretend it's a net. They will eventually go in the box. I just use my hand and they tend to move away from it. Hopefully that helps in some way! Please feel better, stay strong, and try to recover as best you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnebuns Posted August 31, 2022 Author Share Posted August 31, 2022 On 8/31/2022 at 11:28 AM, nabokovfan87 said: Try making a snail trap. For the loaches, I usually use a specimen container when things get real bad and pretend it's a net. They will eventually go in the box. I just use my hand and they tend to move away from it. Hopefully that helps in some way! Please feel better, stay strong, and try to recover as best you can. Oh man good tip! I haven't tried it yet but I can envision it based on how they move and slide onto surfaces. Pro tip ty!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Eric_ Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 On 8/31/2022 at 7:13 AM, Cinnebuns said: Ty this does help. I wondered that about the bottled bacteria. I think now that I've moved almost everyone I'm gonna dose the refugee tanks more.actually. The hillstreams are.gonna have to make do with prime and prayers. Their own slippery fault! That's also good to know for the levels means I might wanna do a wc even without a huge threat to the animals. Is there a level you suggest staying under? Maybe 2ppm? Not sure I know enough to make a recommendation. I do a double dose of prime daily and if that isn’t enough to cover I change water. my reasoning is prime supposedly locks up some O2 from fish to use and therefore I assume it would lock it up some for bacteria to use and would slow reproduction. Is that right? Is a double dose daily too much? 🤷🏼♂️ in the end it is keeping fish safe while waiting and you eventually get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnebuns Posted August 31, 2022 Author Share Posted August 31, 2022 I was initially grateful big momma was late on giving birth so I have more room. In the tank that received the most fish last night I just noticed guppy fry. Sigh. WHY BIG MOMMA WHY?!?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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