Apistogramma Agassizii

[Phillip]

Do we have any Apistogramma gurus in here? I bought these as an “attempted pair.” I used to be able to tell the difference between the two. Now they both look the same to me.  Do I have a pair?  Also, I don’t know why it uploaded sideways, and I don’t know how to fix it 🤣

 

[tolstoy21]

I wont to claim to be an expert at sexing super reds (especially younger fish), but I can share some pics of a male / female pair I have at the moment (I have another female and she looks exactly like the female the pics below).

The key differences I notice between my male and females are as follows:

• The male is maybe larger than the females. If I were to guesstimate, I'd say its larger by maybe 30-40%.
• The male is the only one I have to exhibit the purple coloration along the base of the dorsal. 
• The males tail is much more vibrantly colored.
• The dorsal and anal fins in the males are much more exaggerated (as is typical many apisto species).

Again, this is just what I've observed in I'm my current trio. 

I have some fry growing out, but I just haven't spent enough time to feel confident I've mastered sexing agassizi variant.

Ok now for some pics (taken moments ago).

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by tolstoy21

[anewbie]

Agassizii don't pair; they are harem breeders with the male establishing a territory and claiming all females in that territory. The number of females depend on size of the aquarium and scaping. These are very important factors since the female will be aggressive to the male when she lays eggs and vice versa the male will chase female out of territory when they are not ready to breed. As to your specific question on the sex - i can't tell much from the pictures - they could both be males but the picture isn't very good. Also what size are they (are they mature?).

[Phillip]

On 8/14/2022 at 11:59 AM, anewbie said:

Agassizii don't pair; they are harem breeders with the male establishing a territory and claiming all females in that territory. The number of females depend on size of the aquarium and scaping. These are very important factors since the female will be aggressive to the male when she lays eggs and vice versa the male will chase female out of territory when they are not ready to breed. As to your specific question on the sex - i can't tell much from the pictures - they could both be males but the picture isn't very good. Also what size are they (are they mature?).

Thanks! They are around 6 - 8 months old. They sleep in the same coconut cave every night which made me think one male and one female 🤷🏻‍♂️

[tolstoy21]

Ok, so adding to my prior post . . . . based on coloration, I'm leaning towards two males. But as @anewie said, the pics are hard to see, but the top (left) fish appears to have much a more elongated dorsal than I see in my females. Hard to see in the bottom (right) fish. But I would say if their dorsal and anal fins are getting close to being as long as their tail, then you might have 2 males. 

[Phillip]

On 8/14/2022 at 11:59 AM, anewbie said:

Agassizii don't pair; they are harem breeders with the male establishing a territory and claiming all females in that territory. The number of females depend on size of the aquarium and scaping. These are very important factors since the female will be aggressive to the male when she lays eggs and vice versa the male will chase female out of territory when they are not ready to breed. As to your specific question on the sex - i can't tell much from the pictures - they could both be males but the picture isn't very good. Also what size are they (are they mature?).

Thanks! They are around 6 - 8 months old. They sleep in the same coconut cave every night which made me think one male and one female 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

this is one of them. I don’t have other pictures of the other one right now. I’ll take one in a bit. 

[tolstoy21]

On 8/14/2022 at 1:05 PM, Phillip said:

Thanks! They are around 6 - 8 months old. They sleep in the same coconut cave every night which made me think one male and one female 🤷🏻‍♂️

Yeah, if they are both males, I would imagine some aggression. 

I've had success breeding these fish in pairs. I only breed them as pairs, and not in harems, because the tanks I have aren't conducive to harem breeding, and when one female spawns, the other gobbles down her fry pretty fast.

On 8/14/2022 at 1:07 PM, Phillip said:

Thanks! They are around 6 - 8 months old. They sleep in the same coconut cave every night which made me think one male and one female 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

this is one of them. I don’t have other pictures of the other one right now. I’ll take one in a bit. 

I'm leaning towards male with this pic.

[anewbie]

On 8/14/2022 at 12:07 PM, tolstoy21 said:

Yeah, if they are both males, I would imagine some aggression. 

I've had success breeding these fish in pairs. I only breed them as pairs, and not in harems, because the tanks I have aren't conducive to harem breeding, and when one female spawns, the other gobbles down her fry pretty fast.

You have a harem it consist of one female 😉

 

[Phillip]

On 8/14/2022 at 12:05 PM, tolstoy21 said:

Ok, so adding to my prior post . . . . based on coloration, I'm leaning towards two males. But as @anewie said, the pics are hard to see, but the top (left) fish appears to have much a more elongated dorsal than I see in my females. Hard to see in the bottom (right) fish. But I would say if their dorsal and anal fins are getting close to being as long as their tail, then you might have 2 males. 

I was starting to think that too. One of their tails was seemed to be a male at first. Sleeper male maybe??

This is the one that looked male to me a couple months ago. Picture taken in May. 

[tolstoy21]

On 8/14/2022 at 1:09 PM, Phillip said:

I was starting to think that too. One of their tails was seemed to be a male at first. Sleeper male maybe??

Based on your first pic, these fish appear similar in size. By 8 months, the male should be noticeably larger than the female.

I also have Agassizii double reds, and the male is noticeably larger than his mate. It's similar with Cacatoudies as well, in my experience.

On 8/14/2022 at 1:09 PM, Phillip said:

This is the one that looked male to me a couple months ago. Picture taken in May. 

I'm voting male for the fish in that pic based on my notes in my above post.  But . . . . . I could be wrong! Like I said, would not consider myself to have mastered sexing this variant by any degree as of yet.

[Phillip]

On 8/14/2022 at 11:57 AM, tolstoy21 said:

The male is the only one I have to exhibit the purple coloration along the base of the dorsal

If you look at the first picture I posted it looks like they both have the purple coloration. Both males? But they sleep in the same coconut hut? I would’ve thought they’d be aggressive toward each other?? Maybe not since there’s no females in there??

[tolstoy21]

On 8/14/2022 at 1:22 PM, Phillip said:

But they sleep in the same coconut hut? I would’ve thought they’d be aggressive toward each other??

Agreed. The finnage and coloration says male to me, but . . . .  yeah I'd expect them tussle over territory.  How large is your aquarium?

I have found that when I grow out a large number of fish together they are pretty peaceful with one another because the idea of claiming territory is meaningless. Not sure if two semi-grown males in a similar circumstance, without the presence of females would result in the same.  

On the other hand, I've had a particular A Cacs. male that would kill any other male I put in a 125 gallon.

[Phillip]

On 8/14/2022 at 12:46 PM, tolstoy21 said:

How large is your aquarium?

They are in a 20 gallon. 

[tolstoy21]

On 8/14/2022 at 1:54 PM, Phillip said:

They are in a 20 gallon. 

Yeah I guess time will tell.  But, I would focus on the fins. If they both exhibit elongated fins in an identical manner, and are roughly the same size, then they are the same sex. Coloration can vary to a degree, but fin shape/length and overall size difference should be key indicators.

Edited August 14, 2022 by tolstoy21

[Phillip]

On 8/14/2022 at 1:00 PM, tolstoy21 said:

Yeah I guess time will tell.  But, I would focus on the fins. If they both exhibit elongated fins in an identical manner, and are roughly the same size, then they are the same sex. Coloration can vary to a degree, but fin shape/length and overall size difference should be key indicators.

Thanks for your help!

[Tropicalfishkeeping201]

On 8/14/2022 at 9:57 AM, tolstoy21 said:

I wont to claim to be an expert at sexing super reds (especially younger fish), but I can share some pics of a male / female pair I have at the moment (I have another female and she looks exactly like the female the pics below).

The key differences I notice between my male and females are as follows:

• The male is maybe larger than the females. If I were to guesstimate, I'd say its larger by maybe 30-40%.
• The male is the only one I have to exhibit the purple coloration along the base of the dorsal. 
• The males tail is much more vibrantly colored.
• The dorsal and anal fins in the males are much more exaggerated (as is typical many apisto species).

Again, this is just what I've observed in I'm my current trio. 

I have some fry growing out, but I just haven't spent enough time to feel confident I've mastered sexing agassizi variant.

Ok now for some pics (taken moments ago).

 

What type of apisto

 

On 8/14/2022 at 9:57 AM, tolstoy21 said:

I wont to claim to be an expert at sexing super reds (especially younger fish), but I can share some pics of a male / female pair I have at the moment (I have another female and she looks exactly like the female the pics below).

The key differences I notice between my male and females are as follows:

• The male is maybe larger than the females. If I were to guesstimate, I'd say its larger by maybe 30-40%.
• The male is the only one I have to exhibit the purple coloration along the base of the dorsal. 
• The males tail is much more vibrantly colored.
• The dorsal and anal fins in the males are much more exaggerated (as is typical many apisto species).

Again, this is just what I've observed in I'm my current trio. 

I have some fry growing out, but I just haven't spent enough time to feel confident I've mastered sexing agassizi variant.

Ok now for some pics (taken moments ago).

 

What type of Apistogramma are these?

[tolstoy21]

On 8/14/2022 at 2:23 PM, Tropicalfishkeeping201 said:

What type of Apistogramma are these?

Agassizii Super Red, or Super Fire Red, by the looks of them.

[anewbie]

Couple of comments: while typically the female is much smaller that is not always the case. Two males with no females might hang out together. They seem to only become territorial when there is a reason to be territorial...

[Tropicalfishkeeping201]

On 8/14/2022 at 11:48 AM, tolstoy21 said:

Agassizii Super Red, or Super Fire Red, by the looks of them.

Thank you! They look amazing!