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I have high ph about 8.4 out of tap. Should I be buffering it down or leave it alone?


DadSquatch
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Hi was wondering what I should do I have 3 tanks of different sizes Using one to breed some guppys and another for my community tank. Was wondering if I should try to buffer my water down from an 8.4 ph or leave it high but consistent? I'm new to hobby and have started to lower tank with vinegar not sure if I should or not don't want any spikes in ph. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

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Personally, I probably would not try to majorly chemically alter my source water. If you are keeping fish, you'll inevitably be changing water . . . and it may be difficult to keep that up. 

What you want to learn is whether anything changes after your water has "rested" (typically with an air-stone running in a pail) for 48 hours. You may find that it measures at 8.4 pH from the tap, but after resting for a couple days, it levels off to 8.0 pH.

A lot depends on how much buffer you have in your water. Technically speaking, buffer is the level of hardness measured in GH (general hardness) and in KH (carbonate hardness) that your source water already contains. Water with high GH and KH measurements will tend to retain a given pH rather than drop.

With a planted tank and heavy fish stock, humic acids naturally build up over time, and tend to drift your pH down. The addition of crushed coral can raise KH, and keep your tank balanced. Conversely, adding peat moss can soften water, making your water more changeable.

Another practical question is this: how are your fish handling your water? If they are fine in it, then there's no need to overthink things.

Now, you _can_ carefully add acid to your water to cut pH. There are risks, and it can become a bother. You want to be very attentive. My recommendation would be to do that in a bucket before adding to your aquarium. Let it rest there too until what your are adding to your aquarium is predictable.

Some aquarists go the opposite route altogether, and install a large R.O. system (reverse osmosis). This strips _everything_ from their water. Then, they add selected chemicals back into the water as water changes are performed.

For me, I'd rather work with what I have. This may mean doing a large Rift Lakes African Cichlid tank. They can handle high pH. Your livebearers should be more tolerant. Amazon species might struggle.

Remember that the higher pH, the more rapidly toxic ammonia becomes. You'll want very strong bacterial filtration established.

Hope this helps!

Edited by Fish Folk
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Thank you for the info it will change the way I'm am treating the tanks will also add some crushed coral to help stabilize. Thanks for taking the time to answer wasnt really sure what to do.

I have some neon tetras but the seem to be doing fine I have started to lower the tank with vinegar but will be doing some water changes to bring it to the level of ph from the tap

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On 8/13/2022 at 8:55 AM, DadSquatch said:

Thank you for the info it will change the way I'm am treating the tanks will also add some crushed coral to help stabilize. Thanks for taking the time to answer wasnt really sure what to do.

I have some neon tetras but the seem to be doing fine I have started to lower the tank with vinegar but will be doing some water changes to bring it to the level of ph from the tap

You want to learn how hard / soft your water is _before_ adding crushed coral. Normally, crushed coral is only added to very soft water to stabilize. If your water is hard already, crushed coral won’t help anything.

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On 8/13/2022 at 7:55 AM, DadSquatch said:

Thank you for the info it will change the way I'm am treating the tanks will also add some crushed coral to help stabilize. Thanks for taking the time to answer wasnt really sure what to do.

I have some neon tetras but the seem to be doing fine I have started to lower the tank with vinegar but will be doing some water changes to bring it to the level of ph from the tap

I would not add crushed coral unless you know you have low kh and need to add buffer.  It is more common for high ph water to already have a high kh but you won’t know unless you test.  The crushed coral will raise your ph as well.  

I would recommend against using vinegar long term as it doesn’t keep a stable ph forever and can cause a large swing in ph over time which can be a problem.

You can mix RO water with your tap to lower ph in a more sustainable way.  Just make sure hardness is t too low or you will have to add some Equilibrium or similar.  An RO Buddy seems like a cheap solution but I haven’t used it. Some LFS sell RO water but that can get pricey over time.

I agree with recommendation above to test your parameters out of the tap and then let a bucket sit with an air stone for a few days and test again.  My ph is much higher straight out of the tap than it is after it settles into its “normal” state.
 

Unfortunately it is much easier to raise ph than to lower it.  You can use peat and other things to lower it but doing water changes will cause swings.  
 

I can understand wanting to lower it as researching a fish online will show recommended ph well below what you have.  however, it isn’t as big of a problem as you might think for most fish.  I wouldn’t try discus and you may not be able to breed some fish but most hardy community fish will adapt and live happy little lives at an expected lifespan.

There’s my two cents.

 

 

Edited by _Eric_
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Thank you aswell I am going to try to slowly raise it back to tap level. Was going to add crushed coral because I have also heard that it releases slowly when ph is high and more aggressively when the ph drops. I heard it keeps the ph from crashing.

But yes thank you for your two cents they were exactly what I needed. Hoping I can still breed some guppys. Snails seem to not mind the ph stared with one now have like 200 mystery snails

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On 8/13/2022 at 9:47 AM, DadSquatch said:

Thank you aswell I am going to try to slowly raise it back to tap level. Was going to add crushed coral because I have also heard that it releases slowly when ph is high and more aggressively when the ph drops. I heard it keeps the ph from crashing.

But yes thank you for your two cents they were exactly what I needed. Hoping I can still breed some guppys. Snails seem to not mind the ph stared with one now have like 200 mystery snails

Guppies will love the ph as will the snails.  They would prefer it above 8.

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On 8/13/2022 at 10:41 AM, Fish Folk said:

You want to learn how hard / soft your water is _before_ adding crushed coral. Normally, crushed coral is only added to very soft water to stabilize. If your water is hard already, crushed coral won’t help anything.

Okay my water I wierd must be this Canadian soil, my ph is like 8.4+ with like zero hardness. I think the term is rock water from what I can gather. Dean, Corys master fish breeder friend has very similar water conditions. But all the videos I watch didn't hear a whole lot beside he uses crushed coral to keep it from crashing. I don't have any coral at this moment but will be looking for some befor my tank crashes. 

 

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just to confirm your ph is 8 in the tanks? i ask be my water for example has an 8 ph out of the tap but a 6.5 in the tank this happens because the water company rises it to prevent pipes from eroding

the second thing I'd say is if your are going to change your water hardness you should also test your kh and gh in my opinion those are more important than ph itself.

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No just super high ph I am on a well. Seems i have rock water. I think my GH is like 25 ppm and my KH is between 120- 180 ppm pretty sure my GH was 0 ppm till I added a banquet block

Edited by DadSquatch
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On 8/13/2022 at 5:05 AM, DadSquatch said:

Was wondering if I should try to buffer my water down from an 8.4 ph or leave it high but consistent?

I would recommend running an off-gassing test to see your parameters from the tap that your tank will experience:

A.  Take a sample from the Tap, then test everything you can.
B.  Take that same sample, aerate it with an airstone for 24 hour, retest. 
C.  Compare Test B to your tank results.  This would be what you'd expect to see when you do water changes and how it will impact parameters in the tank.
 

On 8/13/2022 at 5:44 AM, Fish Folk said:

Personally, I probably would not try to majorly chemically alter my source water.

Agreed. 

It's too easy to mess it up without doing this with preconditioned water.   If you have the ability to buffer the water ahead of time, similar to saltwater, that's the only way I'd recommend doing that for a specific species.

If your issue is PH/KH, that can easily be addressed long term without dosing the tank during each WC.

Here is a great blog article on how these two interact to give you stable water.

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/ph-gh-kh

Edited by nabokovfan87
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On 8/13/2022 at 12:18 PM, DadSquatch said:

No just super high ph I am on a well. Seems i have rock water. I think my GH is like 25 ppm and my KH is between 120- 180 ppm pretty sure my GH was 0 ppm till I added a banquet block

I think your kh in the tank is in the ideal range so I wouldn’t be in a hurry to address it or be worried about an imminent crash if you feel confident in that reading.  It would be helpful to know what your tap water is as far as gh / kh so you know what you are starting with.  

Liquid rock is typically a term for super hard water.  
 

Irene has high ph and low hardness so you could check out her co-op videos or her channel (Girl talks fish).  

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