Help! Sick Betta

[Slash]

Betta shape has gotten weird, lethargic, hides all day. Bloated, huge stomach. Seems to have trouble breathing. Trouble swimming with its fins, seems to be struggling.

Is this dropsy? Treat with Maracyn?

just did a water change yesterday so water parameters probably don’t help but here they are:

No3 0

No2 0

PH 6

KH 40

GH 120

ammonia 0

temp 80

its in a 10 gallon lightly planted tank. 

[Slash]

This isn’t its tank FYI, I gave him an epson salt bath in these pictures. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/11/2022 at 11:01 PM, Slash said:

Betta shape has gotten weird, lethargic, hides all day. Bloated, huge stomach. Seems to have trouble breathing. Trouble swimming with its fins, seems to be struggling.

Is this dropsy? Treat with Maracyn?

Yeah, it looks like pineconing and there's a variety of reasons for that. 

I would add an airstone, focus on very very clean water. I would hold back food for 3-5 days and try to let the fish pass what it can and try to fix fluid buildup internally.  The epsom salt baths will help with this too.  I would treat with Maracyn + Ich-X to cover both primary and secondary issues.  It is just how I generally use Maracyn, whenever I use it, I would use it with Ich-X.  Typically with salt as well.

Because you are using epsom salt currently, don't use normal aquarium salt.  It can make symptoms worse.

How is filtration on the fishes tank normally?  Is it potentially causing stress to the fish and unable to relax?

[Slash]

Thanks for the advice! Sounds like great advice. 

I use a sponge filter for filtration. I have it turned down actually to make things calmer but I’ll turn it up a little bit because the medication reduces oxygen I believe?

I happen to have an aquarium Coop nano pump handy that I can use for an airstone.

I got some Ich-X. Already started treating with Maracyn. 

 

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/12/2022 at 2:05 PM, Slash said:

I use a sponge filter for filtration. I have it turned down actually to make things calmer but I’ll turn it up a little bit because the medication reduces oxygen I believe?

I happen to have an aquarium Coop nano pump handy that I can use for an airstone.

Correct.  You can add one airstone on one end of the tank, sponge on the other. 

 

 

On 8/12/2022 at 2:05 PM, Slash said:

I got some Ich-X. Already started treating with Maracyn. 

Sounds good.  Follow the directions on the box itself for maracyn, but when you change water it mentions on Ich-X you need to change a specific water volume.  That's how I manage it.

As far as "why" this happened.  Can you discuss your feeding regime for the betta?

[Slash]

On 8/12/2022 at 6:04 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Been feeding him Betta pellets, occasionally frozen or dried blood worms, live brine shrimp and fish flakes, try to switch it up but it is mostly little betta pellets. Maybe I'm not feeding him enough? There's no way I'm overfeeding. Just feeding him once a day, about 2 to 3 pellets. Usually just once, sometimes twice. The pellets are smaller than his eye. The issue is he hasn't seemed that interested in eating lately, probably for over a week. Also, hiding, he didn't use to hide all the time. And he's staying at the bottom and not coming up for air like he used to. I can't tell for sure, but I've been wondering if his fins shrank too. 

Edited August 12, 2022 by Slash

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/12/2022 at 3:13 PM, Slash said:

Been feeding him Betta pellets, occasionally frozen or dried blood worms, live brine shrimp and fish flakes, try to switch it up but it is mostly little betta pellets. Maybe I'm not feeding him enough? There's no way I'm overfeeding. Just feeding him once a day, about 2 to 3 pellets. Usually just once, sometimes twice. The pellets are smaller than his eye. The issue is he hasn't seemed that interested in eating lately, probably for over a week. Also, hiding, he didn't use to hide all the time. And he's staying at the bottom and not coming up for air like he used to. I can't tell for sure, but I've been wondering if his fins shrank too. 

Is it mostly protein or which foods specifically?  Right now, when he does return to food, I would only feed him brine shrimp for a little while.  That will help him to retain as little as possible and clean out his system.  (ruffage, spirulina, pea protein, etc.)

Not wanting to eat is usually one of the first signs that the fish is stressed in some way.  I don't think he has fin rot, but pineconing is the biggest symptom right now.  All the other things you mentioned point towards specifically dropsy.

It is difficult to see his eyes.  If you have something like a breeder basket, it would keep him higher to the surface of the water and allow him to reach the surface easier.  It will also remove some slight pressure if he is having any swim bladder issues.

Edited August 12, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Slash]

@nabokovfan87

So my Betta seems to be responding to treatment. Swelling looks like it’s decreased a little bit. Swimming and moving a little more now but I have another problem.

Water has gotten very cloudy all of a sudden. White cloudy. Some kind of bloom? Only thing that’s changed is the Maracyn and Ich-X treatment. Any clue what is going on? 

 

 

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/14/2022 at 2:05 PM, Slash said:

Water has gotten very cloudy all of a sudden. White cloudy. Some kind of bloom? Only thing that’s changed is the Maracyn and Ich-X treatment. Any clue what is going on? 

Send a photo if you can of the water surface, if you see any surface film.  Usually what you're describing is just an algae bloom and it's very normal.  You don't really do anything to treat it but monitor ammonia and nitrates and water changes.

[Tropicalfishkeeping201]

On 8/12/2022 at 1:50 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

  I would treat with Maracyn + Ich-X to cover both primary and secondary issues.  It is just how I generally use Maracyn, whenever I use it, I would use it with Ich-X.  Typically with salt as well.

Which Maracyn do you use? I have Fritz Maracyn Provides relief from bacterial infections? Will this work? I currently have a Gourami that is experiencing Dropsy right now, its very bloated, it struggles to swim, and it doesn't want to eat. 

[nabokovfan87]

Maracyn which is similar to E.M. Erythromycin (from API) is the one i have from ACO as a part of their med trio.
Maracyn 2 is a bit broader spectrum, but there is no guarantee it'll work more or less effectively against what you're treating for.  If the med you have is showing good signs, continue use.  If things worsen, that's when you would change medications.  If you can for any fish with swim bladder issues, try to use a breeder box so the fish can be closer to the water surface and have less pressure on their swim bladder.

On 8/15/2022 at 10:35 AM, Tropicalfishkeeping201 said:

Which Maracyn do you use? I have Fritz Maracyn Provides relief from bacterial infections? Will this work? I currently have a Gourami that is experiencing Dropsy right now, its very bloated, it struggles to swim, and it doesn't want to eat.

My apologies, missed the quote! Please see above.

[Tropicalfishkeeping201]

On 8/15/2022 at 11:10 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Maracyn which is similar to E.M. Erythromycin (from API) is the one i have from ACO as a part of their med trio.
Maracyn 2 is a bit broader spectrum, but there is no guarantee it'll work more or less effectively against what you're treating for.  If the med you have is showing good signs, continue use.  If things worsen, that's when you would change medications.  If you can for any fish with swim bladder issues, try to use a breeder box so the fish can be closer to the water surface and have less pressure on their swim bladder.

Thank you so much! I posted a picture of the med I have of Maracyn. I'm currently treating with Kanaplex and focus but he doesn't want to eat so it isn't helping but now I'm going to try both Fritz Maracyn and Ich-X. 

How much Epsom salt should I use?

On 8/15/2022 at 11:10 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

My apologies, missed the quote! Please see above.

No need to apologize, you are a big help! 🙂

[Tropicalfishkeeping201]

On 8/15/2022 at 10:35 AM, Tropicalfishkeeping201 said:

It is just how I generally use Maracyn, whenever I use it, I would use it with Ich-X. 

Do you use the Ich-X for 3 days only like the instructions on the back of this med along with the Maracyn or do you use it longer to treat Dropsy?

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/15/2022 at 11:19 AM, Tropicalfishkeeping201 said:

How much Epsom salt should I use?

Edited: see below.  Don't dose your tank with epsom salt without full research in it's uses!!!
 

On 8/15/2022 at 11:44 AM, Tropicalfishkeeping201 said:

Do you use the Ich-X for 3 days only like the instructions on the back of this med along with the Maracyn or do you use it longer to treat Dropsy?

Maracyn on my box says to treat daily for 5 days, then on day 6 change water. 
Day 1: Dose everything, Ich-X, Maracyn, add an airstone if need be (EDIT: Removed salt, see below)
Day 2-5: Dose Maracyn 1x per day
Day 6: 50% water change, wait 24 hours, dose Ich-X

Edited August 15, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Tropicalfishkeeping201]

On 8/15/2022 at 12:36 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I use 1/2 cup per 10G. This is on par with what ACO uses in the shop and it's similar to Level 3 treatment.  If this is your first time using salt, I would recommend level 2 which is just over 1/4 cup per 10G.

Thank you so much, Just to confirm is it okay to leave the epsom salt in the tank until the next water change?

This is how he looks like. Thank you so much for your help! 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 8/15/2022 at 3:52 PM, Tropicalfishkeeping201 said:

Thank you so much, Just to confirm is it okay to leave the epsom salt in the tank until the next water change?

This is how he looks like. Thank you so much for your help! 

He's so pretty.

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/15/2022 at 12:52 PM, Tropicalfishkeeping201 said:

Thank you so much, Just to confirm is it okay to leave the epsom salt in the tank until the next water change?

Sorry. I got mixed up between salt / epsom salt.  Let me send you a Link with Epsom Salt directions via DM.

The dosing I gave was for Aquarium Salt. As mentioned, Don't use Epsom and Aquarium salt at the same time.

For Clarity, I have only seen epsom salt used as a bath, not in the main tank. I checked the link and it does not give a dosage for the tank itself, only bathing instructions.

I don't know the science behind it, but this is why you shouldn't use both Epsom and aquarium salt at the same time.

Quote

Can Aquarium Salt Treat Bloating?

Not only will aquarium salt not treat bloating, but it can also actually make the condition worse. Aquarium salt can actually hinder the passing of fluids which can even make the bloating worse. That’s why Epsom salt should be used as it relaxes the muscles.

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[nabokovfan87]

I cannot say this is safe, but this is what comes up for a "full tank" dosage of epsom salt.  this is what some people do for altering water parameters in there tank or some plant deficiencies.

@Tropicalfishkeeping201 depending how much you dosed, hopefully you haven't yet, you might need to do a water change asap. 50%.
 

Here is another video on the topic it should start when they discuss use of epsom salt.
 

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Tropicalfishkeeping201]

On 8/15/2022 at 4:02 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

He's so pretty.

Thank you, I hope he recovers, he was one of the first fish I got and I’m going to be very upset if I lose this little guy

[Tropicalfishkeeping201]

On 8/15/2022 at 4:38 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

 

I cannot say this is safe, but this is what comes up for a "full tank" dosage of epsom salt.  this is what some people do for altering water parameters in there tank or some plant deficiencies.

@Tropicalfishkeeping201 depending how much you dosed, hopefully you haven't yet, you might need to do a water change asap. 50%.

 

I haven’t dosed epsom salt on the tank yet. I will be isolating him tonight to a separate storage bin to treat him there. I haven’t treated him yet because I wasn’t sure what meds to use and I’m scared of doing something wrong and make things worse. Thank you so much for your help, I will watch these videos, again I really appreciate your help 🙂

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/15/2022 at 4:34 PM, Tropicalfishkeeping201 said:

I haven’t dosed epsom salt on the tank yet.

Good to hear.   Yeah, you would do epsom baths, then you would dose ich-X and Maracyn to the tank itself only.