Walk through a public aquariums water treatment process

[Flumpweesel]

Just watched this and it is a very concise walk though of a marine system. This is a place on my to visit list this year.

 

[Guppysnail]

That was seriously cool. Thank you for sharing. 

[nabokovfan87]

Obligatory.... sharks are awesome comment!

I enjoyed seeing their method.  Sand filtration, I wonder how we add this to freshwater.... The actual intended use of PFS. 😂

[Patrick_G]

Very cool! My mom volunteered at the National aquarium in the 1980 and I remember being fascinated with the “high tech” trickle filters they used on all the small and medium sized tanks. 

[Flumpweesel]

On 8/7/2022 at 1:55 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Sand filtration

One of my LFS uses a sand filter the staff have to stir it up regularly . Basically they just have two massive pool filters one for the salt water fish and one for the fresh.

 

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/6/2022 at 7:43 PM, Flumpweesel said:

One of my LFS uses a sand filter the staff have to stir it up regularly . Basically they just have two massive pool filters one for the salt water fish and one for the fresh.

If they get something like an arduino and a stepper motor, might be able to automate that!  Pretty easily to find readily available code too.

That's awesome.  I'd love to see something like a ziss sized sand filter or imagine.... a HoB sand filter.

[OnlyGenusCaps]

Reefers be like:  Pffff.  And...?

First off, Tom Scott - An internet treasure.  Full stop.

That's a massive protein skimmer!  I love it!  Actually, I really like the giant ones that people use on koi ponds too.  Anytime you can filter something out of water with air, I'm in.

I will say, I have zero confidence they are running an ULM (ultra-low maintenance) system.  Sure, maybe "nothing is taken from the ocean or put back in", but they are dumping loads to the sewer system there.  There is no way they are mixing that much salt, unless it is for water changes - and that's got to go somewhere.  The other quibble I have is that I very much doubt they are using a small K3 trickle filter to get anoxic denitrification.  If they are doing it, and I am guessing with the big water changes they aren't, it would have to be a much bigger and more complex system.

I didn't mean for that to sound all negative.  It's a cool video!  Frankly, I'd like to see a series on the behind the scenes work in different public aquariums, allowing the viewers to compare the systems they use across the world.  That would be awesome!  Not Tom Scott's bag, but someone could do it.  Please... 

[Katherine]

On 8/8/2022 at 3:07 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

I will say, I have zero confidence they are running an ULM (ultra-low maintenance) system.  Sure, maybe "nothing is taken from the ocean or put back in", but they are dumping loads to the sewer system there.  There is no way they are mixing that much salt, unless it is for water changes - and that's got to go somewhere.

Yeah, his nothing in and nothing out comment confused me when they immediately showed how they prep water to go in. 🤨

[Odd Duck]

I think he meant that they don’t take directly from, nor dump directly into, the surrounding sea.  Clearly they have ins and out from the tanks.

[Flumpweesel]

On 8/8/2022 at 9:07 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

First off, Tom Scott - An internet treasure.  Full stop.

Absolutely!

 

The waste must go somewhere but I think they are trying to run as lean as possible. When I go I'll ask questions.

[modified lung]

On 8/6/2022 at 5:55 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Sand filtration, I wonder how we add this to freshwater.

Sand filters spawned straight from the depths of heck. They must all be hunted down and destroyed with holy fire. Those giant sand filters in the video look like a nightmare. 

Most places have replaced their sand with kaldnes media or floating microbeads. Microbeads are where it's at.

On 8/6/2022 at 8:38 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I'd love to see something like a ziss sized sand filter

Aquarium sized ones are super easy to make. I think I have one in the garage if you want to see it. Not worth the effort unless it's just for fun though IMO.

On 8/8/2022 at 1:07 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

Sure, maybe "nothing is taken from the ocean or put back in", but they are dumping loads to the sewer system there. 

They're definitely dumping loads into the sewers. I'm guessing they do the "nothing out, nothing in" thing because it makes for a good PR catchphrase.

On 8/8/2022 at 1:07 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

The other quibble I have is that I very much doubt they are using a small K3 trickle filter to get anoxic denitrification.

When he said they can "then complete the cycle", I don't think he meant in the trickle filter. I think he meant elsewhere. There's no way denitrification will happen in a trickle filter. I can happen in a sand filter though. Not in the small one he showed next the the trickle filter but in the big blue ones for sure.

 

All in all that's a cool video though. I'm guessing that place is very old or they bought most of their stuff used. Not a lot of places use sand filters, trickle filters, or ozone anymore.

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/8/2022 at 7:15 PM, modified lung said:

Aquarium sized ones are super easy to make. I think I have one in the garage if you want to see it. Not worth the effort unless it's just for fun though IMO.

Very interesting.  One day I'll had to challenge pondguru to make one!  I do understand what you mean about it being a lot of work.  It's a very obtuse way to solve certain problems and using recycled plastics even to make microbeads and such might be a much better, more elegant way, to handle that and push some recycling efforts as well.

Is the one you have a custom job or one that was made and sold at a shop?

On 8/8/2022 at 7:15 PM, modified lung said:

On 8/8/2022 at 1:07 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

Sure, maybe "nothing is taken from the ocean or put back in", but they are dumping loads to the sewer system there. 

They're definitely dumping loads into the sewers. I'm guessing they do the "nothing out, nothing in" thing because it makes for a good PR catchphrase.

Yeah.... "out of sight, out of mind" mentality.  There's a lot of that, unfortunately, that goes on.  Especially with stuff like finning, sharks, "fish" products, etc.  Reminds me of grocery shopping most of all.  All of those pre-cut fruits and what not that are just a polite way for some stores to get rid of old food and push out expiration dates.  I see my local stores doing this a TON with meat.  Can't sell much, so they added 5-10 varieties of "marinated" versions that it can all turn into.  Always looks bad.  Sucks when you go to the store and all you get to do is pick through rotten stuff.  so gross 😞

It's kind of unfortunate how many PR words are manipulated these days to hide things.  As a designer, I tend to giggle when I hear the reasons why some things were purchased because of what it says on the box. 

 

[modified lung]

On 8/8/2022 at 7:25 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Is the one you have a custom job or one that was made and sold at a shop?

Custom. It basically looks like these. In the picture they're being used as egg hatching columns though. Water is pumped up through the bottom. A fine mesh screen glued to the bottom coupler keeps the sand from falling too low. You need a very uniformly sifted sand which can be expensive and a valve that can easily fine tune the water flow.

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/8/2022 at 8:44 PM, modified lung said:

Custom. It basically looks like these. In the picture they're being used as egg hatching columns though.

ok ok ok..... I have so many questions now! LOL

Egg hatching columns?
Egg hatching using sand?
I assume this is a commercial setup for aquaculture or research type of atmosphere?
What does the sand do with the eggs to improve hatches?
If I take my ziss tumbler, might be a good place to start.... 🤔

On 8/8/2022 at 8:44 PM, modified lung said:

You need a very uniformly sifted sand which can be expensive and a valve that can easily fine tune the water flow.

Something like a coffee sifter might make this a slightly easier task these days 🙂 They also have the fine metal filters they use for coffee which would also work and are extremely common to get a hold of.  They use them as puck screens or even filters for pressed coffee makers. Interesting crossover.

[modified lung]

On 8/8/2022 at 8:55 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I assume this is a commercial setup

No, I built that whole thing mostly with parts you can find at the hardware store. It was for a research facility through.

On 8/8/2022 at 8:55 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

What does the sand do with the eggs to improve hatches?

It's hard to explain. It's more of an egg floater than an egg tumbler. If you get the flow exactly right, they all gently float in a way where no egg will be touching another. You can sort of see it in the pic below. In person it looks kind of surreal.

On 8/8/2022 at 8:55 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Something like a coffee sifter might make this a slightly easier task these days

That's a good idea. Then you wouldn't have to buy a role of mesh screen just to use a little section of it.

Edit: oops I didn't read what you were actually replying to here.

The reason for the sand is that floating on top of fluidized sand is much more gentle than on top of a solid screen. The species we used these on would hatch prematurely and have high mortality rates the first few weeks if the eggs were knocked around too much.

The reason for the sifted sand is because non-uniform sand will unevenly separate according to particle size over time. The heavier particles settle on the bottom and back up the flow. Pressure builds until the water breaks through and carves a river through a small section of the sand which becomes the path of least resistance. All the eggs then get pushed into a pile to one side and fungus.

(The same thing happens in big sand filters if cheap sand is used. Larger, heavier particle pile up and stagnate on one side of the filter housong which increases water velocity through the other side and blows the lighter particles out.)

The valve is because too much flow will blow the eggs out of the column and too little flow will cause the eggs to settle on top of each other. The threshold between the two can be very thin and sometimes needs adjustment.

We were getting 100% hatch rates with hundreds of thousands of eggs using these.

Edited August 9, 2022 by modified lung

[gardenman]

There are two types of sand filters. The typical pool sand filter uses a non-moving bed of sand as the filter media. It's primarily a debris catching type of filtration though it does have some biofiltration capability. Fluidized bed sand filters are the opposite. They're primarily a bio filter and not so much a mechanical one. Wardley had a HOB fluidized bed sand filter for aquariums called "The Sandman." The sand portion worked well but the mechanical part was a mess. Their filter pads would clog in a day. I had a chat with one of their engineers who insisted the problem was I was feeding my fish too much. Their filter was designed for the fish to only be fed every third or fourth day. It was an interesting discussion. I pointed out that my cans of Wardley food said to feed the fish two to four times daily. The folks at Lifegard Aquatics have an inline fluidized bed sand filter, but these days the K1 and similar media seem to have overtaken the fluidized bed sand filters. Sand is a very inexpensive and readily available media, which makes it a good option for larger places that need a lot of media. Sand filters are easy to clean by backflushing them. 

[Flumpweesel]

I think it's important not to forget that the sand was one stage in this system. The demo version showed they are still using bioballs, UV and the cool bubble thingy. The sand was just there acting to my understanding as filter floss to catch bits not provide the bio filtration. And on that volume sand is easier to clean. Who would want to clean the equivalent mass of sponges.

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/8/2022 at 9:16 PM, modified lung said:

The reason for the sifted sand is because non-uniform sand will unevenly separate according to particle size over time. The heavier particles settle on the bottom and back up the flow. Pressure builds until the water breaks through and carves a river through a small section of the sand which becomes the path of least resistance. All the eggs then get pushed into a pile to one side and fungus.

(The same thing happens in big sand filters if cheap sand is used. Larger, heavier particle pile up and stagnate on one side of the filter housong which increases water velocity through the other side and blows the lighter particles out.)

The valve is because too much flow will blow the eggs out of the column and too little flow will cause the eggs to settle on top of each other. The threshold between the two can be very thin and sometimes needs adjustment.

We were getting 100% hatch rates with hundreds of thousands of eggs using these.

Awesome stuff.  Thank you very much for all the details and explanation.  Very cool to learn about that setup!