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Cinnebuns
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A few weeks ago I got some pseudomugil furcata or forktailed rainbowfish. The very next day I found 1 inside a sinking spawning mop intended for cories dead. I decided to give it time before acting. Less than a week later I found another one in the other spawning mop. I decided to cut the mops to make them thinner. Shortly after I found a 3rd one. This time it had been mostly eaten apart by the time I found it. Then, this morning, I found an oto I just got yesterday dead in one. 

Idk what to do. I don't think they can be thinned too much more. I kinda don't wanna remove them completely because I rely on them for pulling cory eggs. Another thought is that they are heavy and weighed down more from being used for a long period of time and maybe I can make new ones that would be lighter. The problem there is the inevitable cycle crash as they are housing a large amount of beneficial bacteria. 

20220806_122200.jpg

Edited by Cinnebuns
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It's not very good but it's the best I could do. I tried to wipe them off and they all just abandoned ship and jumped off. When they did this they were hopping on the surface of the water like popcorn. I didn't catch it too well in the video and I've tried a few times. 

 

I also started noticing I think they are all over the tank and primarily in areas with algae. 

@Biotope Biologist you seem to be the critter expert around here. Any ideas?

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On 8/6/2022 at 3:45 PM, Flumpweesel said:

Maybe try short tufty mops weighted to sit up more like a wool pom-pom than a tassel. 

The less the threads can tangle the safer they will be. 

If you want examples (not sure how good the explaination is) I'll make our draw you something tomorrow.

Tbh, I'm kinda convinced now that they died then were deposited in the mop with the flow in the tank. Many people have suggested this on Facebook but what convinced me of this is I found 2 others dead but not in the mop since posting this. Something is killing them and idk what. I've gotten 13 total, 2 6 packs with a +1, yet I can only find 6 right now. 3 found dead in the mops and 2 on another decor piece. That's still 2 unaccounted for. 

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On 8/6/2022 at 1:57 PM, Cinnebuns said:

Tbh, I'm kinda convinced now that they died then were deposited in the mop with the flow in the tank. Many people have suggested this on Facebook but what convinced me of this is I found 2 others dead but not in the mop since posting this. Something is killing them and idk what. I've gotten 13 total, 2 6 packs with a +1, yet I can only find 6 right now. 3 found dead in the mops and 2 on another decor piece. That's still 2 unaccounted for. 

@Bentley Pascoe Any experience here with this? More details below:

On 8/6/2022 at 10:27 AM, Cinnebuns said:

A few weeks ago I got some pseudomugil furcata or forktailed rainbowfish. The very next day I found 1 inside a sinking spawning mop intended for cories dead. I decided to give it time before acting. Less than a week later I found another one in the other spawning mop. I decided to cut the mops to make them thinner. Shortly after I found a 3rd one. This time it had been mostly eaten apart by the time I found it. Then, this morning, I found an oto I just got yesterday dead in one. 

Idk what to do. I don't think they can be thinned too much more. I kinda don't wanna remove them completely because I rely on them for pulling cory eggs. Another thought is that they are heavy and weighed down more from being used for a long period of time and maybe I can make new ones that would be lighter. The problem there is the inevitable cycle crash as they are housing a large amount of beneficial bacteria. 

@Cinnebuns In terms of the corydoras and otos.  I think the oto got stuck, the corys usually only ever have a fit when it's temp or oxygenation.  If you don't, try dropping in an airstone just to try to improve that aspect. 

Those little bugs are just so hard to identify or view on the photo / video.  My first thought was some kind of a mite or something.

I would just verify the pump / impeller is working at full capacity, cleaned, and lubricated.  I know you're dealing with a lot of variables here, but hopefully flow really isn't the cause of issues.

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On 8/6/2022 at 4:26 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

In terms of the corydoras and otos. 

No cory has died. The Cories are only relevant because they are the intended target for using the spawning mops. 

 

On 8/6/2022 at 4:26 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I would just verify the pump / impeller is working at full capacity, cleaned, and lubricated.  I know you're dealing with a lot of variables here, but hopefully flow really isn't the cause of issues.

It's interesting you say that. I just got done having to monkey around with 1 of the 2 HOB filters on this tank because it wouldn't work after shutting it off for a couple of min. Tbh, I think it has been functioning fine because that is something I check on and there is a heck of a lot of gunk buildup on the plastic thing reducing the outflow but who knows. 

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On 8/6/2022 at 2:55 PM, Cinnebuns said:

It's interesting you say that. I just got done having to monkey around with 1 of the 2 HOB filters on this tank because it wouldn't work after shutting it off for a couple of min. Tbh, I think it has been functioning fine because that is something I check on and there is a heck of a lot of gunk buildup on the plastic thing reducing the outflow but who knows. 

 On the part that goes from the Hob pump / housing into the Hob basket itself?  If you remove the pump itself you should be able to clean everything, I use a toothbrush or q-tips. Then I use silicone grease to lube the shaft of the pump itself. 

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If you're concerned that Pseudomugils are dying due to flow with a mop. I would hurl that right up the window. Blue eyes typically come from stream water systems that have significantly more flow than we're able to easily produce in an aquarium. You could be dealing with something where like a mop is too dense. Or maybe they're biting at a thread, but I don't think that's the culprit. I think you're dealing with something else here and I can't necessarily tell from the video you took. If you're trying to catch some kind of critter, what I would do is turn the filter off so there's no flow interrupting your visibility and then try to find a good camera angle of them and and film them or picture them. Also, I would say the same for most corydoras because they come from relatively good flow and they're naturally strong swimmers. I don't think flows your issue here.

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On 8/6/2022 at 6:52 PM, Bentley Pascoe said:

If you're concerned that Pseudomugils are dying due to flow with a mop. I would hurl that right up the window. Blue eyes typically come from stream water systems that have significantly more flow than we're able to easily produce in an aquarium. You could be dealing with something where like a mop is too dense. Or maybe they're biting at a thread, but I don't think that's the culprit. I think you're dealing with something else here and I can't necessarily tell from the video you took. If you're trying to catch some kind of critter, what I would do is turn the filter off so there's no flow interrupting your visibility and then try to find a good camera angle of them and and film them or picture them. Also, I would say the same for most corydoras because they come from relatively good flow and they're naturally strong swimmers. I don't think flows your issue here.

I never thought flow was the issue. I thought the density of the mop was and that they were getting stuck. I now am convinced something else is killing them and they are being deposited into the mop after death. I just have no clue what is killing them. 

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@nabokovfan87 my ph usually runs 8.0 to 8.2. Here's what it just tested as...

20220806_201310.jpg.b77cfb618bffa04d22c4026d09ba7d51.jpg

 

I don't think that level in and of itself is dangerous, however I can't know how fast that crashed. It's also entirely possible its not the cause of the deaths, but rather a result of them since deaths will lower ph too. It's hard to say which way it is. 

I also tested kh and gh.  Both are also lower than usual but not worryingly low. Kh - 9 and gh - 12. I did throw in a couple of wonder shells. 

 

 

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On 8/6/2022 at 6:17 PM, Cinnebuns said:

I don't think that level in and of itself is dangerous, however I can't know how fast that crashed. It's also entirely possible its not the cause of the deaths, but rather a result of them since deaths will lower ph too. It's hard to say which way it is. 

I also tested kh and gh.  Both are also lower than usual but not worryingly low. Kh - 9 and gh - 12. I did throw in a couple of wonder shells. 

Have you done the off-gassing test before? The water company just changed all of my GH for some random reason. I order a phosphate test kit to check that as well.  Something very strange going on with my water.

With that KH I would think you're at about 7.4-7.6 or so. It looks to be right on with your testing from what I can see.

On 8/6/2022 at 10:27 AM, Cinnebuns said:

pseudomugil furcata

This is what I found:
 

Quote

Pseudomugil furcatus were originally collected from Peria Creek, a tributary of the Kwagira (Kwagila) River, in eastern Papua New Guinea. They have also been collected from Safia, in the Musa River valley where they are relatively common in small, clear rainforest streams. They have a range in Papua New Guinea between Dyke Ackland and Collingwood Bays. They are generally found in small, clear, relatively swift-flowing freshwater streams with abundant aquatic vegetation. Water conditions reported from their natural habitats are: Temperature 24-28.5°C; pH 7.0-8.0 and Hardness 90-180 ppm.

Otos and corydoras I don't think do very well with PH that high. 7.5 or so is about the max I've seen with corydoras. Otos prefer to be around wood so I would assume it's a similar setup with a lower PH.  The hardwater is fine for everyone as far as I know.

Difficult to know what is specifically causing issues, but if you haven't done it in a while I would start with the off-gassing test.

Edited by nabokovfan87
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On 8/7/2022 at 11:37 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Have you done the off-gassing test before? The water company just changed all of my GH for some random reason. I order a phosphate test kit to check that as well.  Something very strange going on with my water.

With that KH I would think you're at about 7.4-7.6 or so. 

This is what I found:

 

 


Pseudomugil furcatus were originally collected from Peria Creek, a tributary of the Kwagira (Kwagila) River, in eastern Papua New Guinea. They have also been collected from Safia, in the Musa River valley where they are relatively common in small, clear rainforest streams. They have a range in Papua New Guinea between Dyke Ackland and Collingwood Bays. They are generally found in small, clear, relatively swift-flowing freshwater streams with abundant aquatic vegetation. Water conditions reported from their natural habitats are: Temperature 24-28.5°C; pH 7.0-8.0 and Hardness 90-180 ppm.

Otos and corydoras I don't think do very well with PH that high. 7.5 or so is about the max I've seen with corydoras. Otos prefer to be around wood so I would assume it's a similar setup with a lower PH.  The hardwater is fine for everyone as far as I know.

Difficult to know what is specifically causing issues, but if you haven't done it in a while I would start with the off-gassing test.

I've kept and bred Forktail Blueyes for numerous years at a pH of 6. I've also had them survive temps down to 8 degrees Celsius. 

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