Tank won't cycle, ammonia trouble

[Cicibrown171]

Let me start off by saying that I was told by a pet store employee that I just needed to run my filter for 24 hours and then I could add fish.  And we were originally going to get an aquatic turtle which is why I started out the hobby with a 75 gallon tank with a fluval fx4. But the turtle didn't work out. So we went out and bought some neon tetras, tiger barbs, mystery snails, and Molly's.  I did 2 water changes in the first month but I did not have a ciphen. I got a ciphen 2 weeks ago and I did a water change last weekend and this weekend.  I recently removed a fake hollow tree because the paint was coming off. I can not seem to get the ammonia levels to drop.   I've never see the nitite or nitrate levels go up.  I've added beneficial bacteria a few weeks in a row.  Also we went on a 4 day vacation and when i came back there was algae everywhere.  I assume this is because the lights were left on the whole time.  So i did clean the fake plants off.  Today the pH was down to 6.0 and the ammonia was at a .5 .  I'm at a loss of what to do to get my tank to cycle.  I don't think the tank is over stocked.  Any help or advice would be appreciated.  

[Flumpweesel]

Well your not having a fun start are you. But we are were we are so let's get on with it.

Have you watched the Cory explanation of cycling using m&m's it's very good. I'll try and find a link later.

I would leave algae alone add some live plants (fast growing stem ones for now) these will help use some of that ammonia. Don't clean any surfaces but do vac your substrate. And don't touch those filters yet. 

You need to water change to keep the ammonia down to 0.25 ppm because your fish are in there some will cope with a bit more but others can advise on that.

Test your tap water just to be sure what you are working with.

What dechlorinator are you using? 

Give us your test results and you will no doubt get more specific advice.

[anitstuk]

Floating plants such as duckweed and water lettuce really help with lowering the Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrates. Fast growing plants also help significantly with getting rid of Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrates. 

[Flumpweesel]

If it's an open top you can use pathos or lucky bamboo.

[Tommy Vercetti]

I think that your tank will not cycle with a ph that low (6.0). I am pretty sure the nitrogen cycle would require ph 6.3 and up. I would add crushed coral to the substrate, to buffer the ph closer to 7 to 8, and then try to cycle the tank like it was day 1. Also I have read in a few places the ammonia is less toxic when the ph is under 6.2

 

 

Edited August 1, 2022 by Tommy Vercetti

[nabokovfan87]

Because of all of the struggle and trying to sort through issues, I want to take a step back and recommend something very specific.

1.  Keep up with weekly 50% water changes, keep an eye on the fish for signs of weird behavior or breathing issues, and if you see foam at the top of the waterline.
2.  Run carbon in your filter for now.
3.  Buy some test strips, Either the Aquarium co-op multi-test strips or the tetra test strips is what I recommend.
4.  Test your water, report back so we can get an idea of where you're at.
5.  Find a bacteria starter (something like seachem stability or Fritz Zyme 7) and start dosing that daily.  Day 1 is a 2x dose, every day following is a normal dose.
6.  Get some aquarium salt and have that on hand
7.  Add an airstone if you don't have one already.

^^ In terms of test strips there is one set for ammonia, one set for everything else, you NEED both when you first start out, but in terms of trying to sort through everything right now, if money is an issue, get the 6-in-1 test strips.

Please feel free to attach photos so we can see how things are looking and get an idea of your setup / filtration.

On 8/1/2022 at 3:30 PM, Cicibrown171 said:

Also we went on a 4 day vacation and when i came back there was algae everywhere.  I assume this is because the lights were left on the whole time.

Yep! Just because of the lights, but this is great to help out the ammonia issue right now.  Set the light to as low as you can, for about 8 hours per day.  I highly recommend the kasa smart outlets.

Edited August 1, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Cicibrown171]

 

The water conditioner I use is API Turtle Water Conditioner.  I have the API ammonia test kit and the 5 in 1 test strips.  I was using the API Quick start but was told that didn't really have beneficial bacteria so I switched to the aqueoun pure beneficial bacteria.  I do have an bubble wall (?) 

My PH was higher a few weeks ago, about an 8.  I went to a local fish store and they gave me some ammonia lock.  So I've been using that.  And when I went in Saturday they suggested some pH Up.  So I've used that a few times along with the ammonia lock.  Should I stop using the chemicals?

 

 

 

My tap water:

Ph: 7,KH: 40,GH: 30

 

Aquarium water today:

Ph: 6, KH: 0, GH: 0

[Cicibrown171]

The heater, intake, and output are all next to each other on one side of the aquarium.  I have some java fern and jungle val.  I had some anubias but all of the leaves fell off. The jungle valley was bigger but most of those leaves fell off.  I wasn't sure if this was the melting, the ammonia, or the fish nibbling at it.  

Edited August 2, 2022 by Cicibrown171

[Katherine]

On 8/1/2022 at 7:02 PM, Cicibrown171 said:

I had some anubias but all of the leaves fell off. The jungle valley was bigger but most of those leaves fell off.  I wasn't sure if this was the melting, the ammonia, or the fish nibbling at it.  

 

This is most likely because the plants are newer and adjusting to your water still. Take out any obviously dead leaves, but leave the plants in, they should recover.

[quikv6]

You need to raise your PH some (slowly, with crushed coral as suggested) as the tank will be difficult/slow to get cycled at a PH of 6. Also, since the PH dropped so significantly from your tap of 8, it may indicate a lack of KH (buffer.), KH can stabilize PH. I am assuming you havent tested for KH, but if you have, I am guessing it's very low. Crushed coral will help here as well.

[anitstuk]

On 8/2/2022 at 9:32 AM, Tommy Vercetti said:

I think that your tank will not cycle with a ph that low (6.0). I am pretty sure the nitrogen cycle would require ph 6.3 and up. I would add crushed coral to the substrate, to buffer the ph closer to 7 to 8, and then try to cycle the tank like it was day 1. Also I have read in a few places the ammonia is less toxic when the ph is under 6.2

 

 

I disagree, I was able to cycle my tank when the PH was around 6.2. 

[face]

the above has you  on the right path some  crushed coral to increase ph kh and gh should help your cycle (fish and snails  will also like some minerals) just keep an eye on your ammonia keeping it between. 25 and .50 if it goes above that just do a water change

as for the chemicals ammonia lock and the water conditioner are fine i would avoid ph up stuff like that can mess with ph kh and gh if not used 100% correctly (crushed coral is generally more gentle)

one more thing your inlet and outlet should probably be on opposite side not 100% necessary but maybe helpful

your tank looks pretty lightly stocked so hopefully it won't be too difficult good luck

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/1/2022 at 4:50 PM, Cicibrown171 said:

The water conditioner I use is API Turtle Water Conditioner.  I have the API ammonia test kit and the 5 in 1 test strips.  I was using the API Quick start but was told that didn't really have beneficial bacteria so I switched to the aqueoun pure beneficial bacteria.  I do have an bubble wall (?) 

My PH was higher a few weeks ago, about an 8.  I went to a local fish store and they gave me some ammonia lock.  So I've been using that.  And when I went in Saturday they suggested some pH Up.  So I've used that a few times along with the ammonia lock.  Should I stop using the chemicals?

My tap water:

Ph: 7,KH: 40,GH: 30

Aquarium water today:

Ph: 6, KH: 0, GH: 0

When you say "my tap water" above do you mean immediately from the tap or is this after things have off-gassed? 
To test the off-gassed parameters of your tap water, you would have a more accurate view of the water after it's added to your tank and what you can expect to happen when you perform a WC.  Essentially you'd take the tap water, aerate it for 24 hours with an airstone, and then test it at that point. Compare that to your water parameters in the tank.

As for what someone told you, it's incorrect, regarding API Quick Start
 

Quote

API® QUICK START nitrifying bacteria allows for the instant addition of fish, as it immediately starts the natural aquarium cycle with beneficial bacteria, which converts toxic ammonia into nitrite, then into harmless nitrate to help prevent fish loss in your tank. Best for use when starting a new aquarium, after water changes and filter changes, and when adding new fish to an existing aquarium. API QUICK START nitrifying bacteria may be used in both fresh and saltwater aquariums.

Regarding why your PH crashed, please read this and feel free to ask any questions you may have.
https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/ph-gh-kh
 

Essentially, you can use up ONE bottle of beneficial bacteria source and then check your status.  Right now, you're doing so many things that it's difficult for the tank to do what it needs to. Because the tank is understocked you can easily control ammonia / nitrite levels via water changes and not need to use ammonia lock.

Adding the crushed coral is going to be the easiest way to help the situation, so will aragonite sand (same stuff).  the issue is you could be starting at a very low PH and going up to 8.0 as a final result and that will definitely stress the fish.  They'd need to be moved to somewhere else while the tank adjusts or you can run a test in something like a 5G bucket if you have a pumphead / airstone.

I don't think you want to remove all of your rock substrate and replace it with crushed coral / sand, but that is the easiest way for longer term stability on the tank.

Cory's advice will be to find a species that does well in the water you have. 

[Brandon p]

Wow that’s a lot of information. I cycle my tank by getting feeder fish and putting them in and feeding them for a month or 2 and not touching it.