Red honey gouramis chasing - don't know what to do!

[nerdyaquarist]

Hi everyone, so if you notice I've been posting a lot about my gouramis lately. I can't catch a break with these guys! I bought 4 of these cute little fish for my 29 gal tank about 2-3 months ago because everyone kept saying they were peaceful community fish. Well, they were wrong.

One of the males (I think he is at least) grew increasingly more territorial over the entire right side of the tank and kept aggressively chasing and picking at the scales of any gourami that approached that side. It got so bad that one of the other gouramis got so stressed and and lost color, weight, and even will to swim. She eventually gave up and sat on the gravel in a hidden corner of my tank to hide from the bully. I treated her in my QT for a few weeks and hoped that once I put her back into the main tank that it's been enough time for the bully to forget, but he did not. Went straight to chasing. I ended up throwing him in fish jail (my QT) to give the 3 other gouramis a break. 

All was well for a few days, super peaceful. But then I noticed something strange, one of the previously passive gouramis started chasing the other 2! Then the one that got sick also started chasing! It's still much more peaceful than before but they still don't last long in each other's line of sight before starting to chase. 

Is this just their natural behavior? Are they supposed to chase each other? I thought honey gouramis were peaceful fish and did not expect this. Now I don't know whether to just return the bully fish into the main tank and just let it be or if they are meant to be alone (just having 1 and returning 3). I got 4 because I read that they like company, but maybe not these guys? I know there's controversy over whether honey gouramis and "red honey's" are the same species, and could explain behavior differences. Honestly this just all causes me second-hand anxiety just watching them chase each other and that's the last thing I want to feel when watching my aquarium lol. 

Would love your input, especially if someone here also owns red honeys. 

[Cinnebuns]

On 7/20/2022 at 4:09 PM, nerdyaquarist said:

Hi everyone, so if you notice I've been posting a lot about my gouramis lately. I can't catch a break with these guys! I bought 4 of these cute little fish for my 29 gal tank about 2-3 months ago because everyone kept saying they were peaceful community fish. Well, they were wrong.

One of the males (I think he is at least) grew increasingly more territorial over the entire right side of the tank and kept aggressively chasing and picking at the scales of any gourami that approached that side. It got so bad that one of the other gouramis got so stressed and and lost color, weight, and even will to swim. She eventually gave up and sat on the gravel in a hidden corner of my tank to hide from the bully. I treated her in my QT for a few weeks and hoped that once I put her back into the main tank that it's been enough time for the bully to forget, but he did not. Went straight to chasing. I ended up throwing him in fish jail (my QT) to give the 3 other gouramis a break. 

All was well for a few days, super peaceful. But then I noticed something strange, one of the previously passive gouramis started chasing the other 2! Then the one that got sick also started chasing! It's still much more peaceful than before but they still don't last long in each other's line of sight before starting to chase. 

Is this just their natural behavior? Are they supposed to chase each other? I thought honey gouramis were peaceful fish and did not expect this. Now I don't know whether to just return the bully fish into the main tank and just let it be or if they are meant to be alone (just having 1 and returning 3). I got 4 because I read that they like company, but maybe not these guys? I know there's controversy over whether honey gouramis and "red honey's" are the same species, and could explain behavior differences. Honestly this just all causes me second-hand anxiety just watching them chase each other and that's the last thing I want to feel when watching my aquarium lol. 

Would love your input, especially if someone here also owns red honeys. 

There is such a thing as a true red honey gourami. The problem is that most fish labeled as "red honey gourami" are not that fish but actually a thick-lipped gourami. 

I will not pretend to be an expert but @laritheloud has helped me a ton with my honey and thicklipped so maybe he can share some insight.

What I will say is I personally have not experienced this from any of my gourami. At one point I had 3 yellow honey and 3 thicklipped in a 29. Now it's just 2 of the thick lipped. I have noticed some chasing behavior but nothing as extreme as you are noticing. 

Only one time did I notice some behavior that was a little more aggressive and maybe it could shed some light. One of the reds turned brown. It was an obvious color change. He hung out on the top in a specific corner of the tank all the time and chased away any of the gouramis that got near him. I highly suspect he was guarding a bubble nest. I had some water lettuce there at the time so.i couldn't see if that was entirely the case. Maybe something to check out.  I have to say it never got even close to as aggressive as you are describing so idk. 

[laritheloud]

Hey there! I went back to look at your photos and you definitely have thicklipped gouramis. The clear tails are a tell. If you have any current pictures or videos, it'd be great if you could post them so I could see what you're talking about and help you better gauge the sex of your fish. 

That said, I find the more space you can give thicklips, the better. 15 gallons is supposedly the minimum for thicklips, but I prefer to go bigger than 15 gallons so I could have more than a singleton in my tank. You could technically fit 4 thicklips in a 29 gallon, but they'll do better as a group in a 40 gallon or bigger. Chasing is normal behavior especially if you have mixed sexes in the tank; male gouramis love to relentlessly chase the ladies. Make sure there is enough cover for the chased gouramis to get away when they want to. Though my males in my mixed group sometimes chase, it's never more than a short spurt, and they are otherwise very peaceful.

I want to emphasize that gouramis are by and large very peaceful and chill fish, but there will always be a little bit of chasing between members of the same species. I have never experienced a thicklip gourami going after fish of a different species UNLESS it is a very similar fish to a thicklip gourami; once my original thicklip hit maturity she couldn't stand my male honey gourami, so I moved her to a 55 gallon and got her a group of 4 friends. No problems ever since, and they're swimming happily away as we speak.

[nerdyaquarist]

On 7/21/2022 at 5:34 AM, laritheloud said:

Hey there! I went back to look at your photos and you definitely have thicklipped gouramis. The clear tails are a tell. If you have any current pictures or videos, it'd be great if you could post them so I could see what you're talking about and help you better gauge the sex of your fish. 

That said, I find the more space you can give thicklips, the better. 15 gallons is supposedly the minimum for thicklips, but I prefer to go bigger than 15 gallons so I could have more than a singleton in my tank. You could technically fit 4 thicklips in a 29 gallon, but they'll do better as a group in a 40 gallon or bigger. Chasing is normal behavior especially if you have mixed sexes in the tank; male gouramis love to relentlessly chase the ladies. Make sure there is enough cover for the chased gouramis to get away when they want to. Though my males in my mixed group sometimes chase, it's never more than a short spurt, and they are otherwise very peaceful.

I want to emphasize that gouramis are by and large very peaceful and chill fish, but there will always be a little bit of chasing between members of the same species. I have never experienced a thicklip gourami going after fish of a different species UNLESS it is a very similar fish to a thicklip gourami; once my original thicklip hit maturity she couldn't stand my male honey gourami, so I moved her to a 55 gallon and got her a group of 4 friends. No problems ever since, and they're swimming happily away as we speak.

Thank you for your response, very insightful. I can't tell the sexes since none of them have clear cut different fin shapes like how people use to sex other gouramis. Don't know if that's because they're young. I'm glad to know some chasing is to be expected but I also don't want the fish feel like they don't have enough room in my tank. Do you think keeping the 4 is a good idea or should I return some of them? If so, how many?

I'll try to get a good video for you all tomorrow to show you what I mean by the behavior. The biggest bully is still in fish jail so you won't see the main culprit. 

[laritheloud]

I wouldn't return any until we can take a look. Sometimes even normal behavior doesn't look peaceful! If you're new to gouramis, it can feel worrisome. Separating the fish won't help very much in my experience (as you've noticed). They're working out a pecking order and who is the most dominant amongst them. If the previously sick one is now chasing, that's actually a good sign and it means they're healthy 🙂