Help Please!

[MommaOlenik]

I’m so happy I could cry! Fingers crossed I think we are finally at the end of this very long, stressful, expensive road!!! And Moby can finally live a healthy peaceful life!!

[CKetchum]

I read all these posts. I feel like I just read/watched a lifetime movie :+}. How terribly stressful for you. Glad that your latest post is showing good results. Thank you for sharing. I learned something from your experience and I am sure others have too. 

[MommaOlenik]

On 7/20/2022 at 7:43 PM, CKetchum said:

I read all these posts. I feel like I just read/watched a lifetime movie :+}. How terribly stressful for you. Glad that your latest post is showing good results. Thank you for sharing. I learned something from your experience and I am sure others have too. 

Awe thank you. I’m happy to hear that and appreciate it. It has been awful especially like today… yesterday was great among was swimming, dancing, and even was even jumping for his food like he used too. Now I come home and he’s staring out the back of the tank again and won’t even come out to greet me and his water is a mess again… 😭😡🥺

[nabokovfan87]

It looks like nitrite is the only one that's having struggles for you.  Let me check something.

 

EDIT:  Ok, can you please take some photos of your filter installed, unplug it, show whatever it inside of it, and then just plug it back in?

I am just curious what is causing this bacteria needed not to thrive.  If there is some high level of ammonia (not showing up on the testing), it seems to be easily turning into nitrites and then you have the floating plants taking in all the nitrates.  The nitrates are showing up on the test (this is good), but it's not something where the levels are of any real concern.

[MommaOlenik]

On 7/21/2022 at 7:48 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

It looks like nitrite is the only one that's having struggles for you.  Let me check something.

 

EDIT:  Ok, can you please take some photos of your filter installed, unplug it, show whatever it inside of it, and then just plug it back in?

I am just curious what is causing this bacteria needed not to thrive.  If there is some high level of ammonia (not showing up on the testing), it seems to be easily turning into nitrites and then you have the floating plants taking in all the nitrates.  The nitrates are showing up on the test (this is good), but it's not something where the levels are of any real concern.

Here you go… all of the floating plants died. Not sure what happened just one by one they got brown and started to sink so I got them out before they sunk to the bottom never to be found again. But all of the other plants are still doing really well. Thank you for trying to help with this. 

[MommaOlenik]

Here are some pictures of his tank too. The heater is set at 79 and there’s this new oily looking stuff floating on top of his water. 

[MommaOlenik]

On 7/21/2022 at 7:48 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

It looks like nitrite is the only one that's having struggles for you.  Let me check something.

 

EDIT:  Ok, can you please take some photos of your filter installed, unplug it, show whatever it inside of it, and then just plug it back in?

I am just curious what is causing this bacteria needed not to thrive.  If there is some high level of ammonia (not showing up on the testing), it seems to be easily turning into nitrites and then you have the floating plants taking in all the nitrates.  The nitrates are showing up on the test (this is good), but it's not something where the levels are of any real concern.

The one sponge is cleaner because I just had it under the bottom of the filter where the intake is so it was just vacuumed there. Because I was afraid to touch the filter. But I put it inside after I took it apart to show you. 

Edited July 22, 2022 by MommaOlenik

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/22/2022 at 7:44 AM, MommaOlenik said:

Here are some pictures of his tank too. The heater is set at 79 and there’s this new oily looking stuff floating on top of his water. 

I'd add an airstone to try to break this up.  It's likely from the food or that slime stuff that shows up on equipment (white film) in lower flow tanks.
 

On 7/22/2022 at 8:37 AM, MommaOlenik said:

The one sponge is cleaner because I just had it under the bottom of the filter where the intake is so it was just vacuumed there. Because I was afraid to touch the filter. But I put it inside after I took it apart to show you. 

Understood, so you're saying it was in the tank itself? or inside the intake where the grill is?  I appreciate it!

 

 

On 7/22/2022 at 7:39 AM, MommaOlenik said:

Here you go… all of the floating plants died. Not sure what happened just one by one they got brown and started to sink so I got them out before they sunk to the bottom never to be found again. But all of the other plants are still doing really well. Thank you for trying to help with this. 

Based on just the shape of the foams I think part of the issue, reason for the film and stuff is just the way the filter is loaded.  If you remove the green cartridge you'd want that foam to completely cover the bottom of that filter cavity.  It would have some sort of an oval shape and then water flows up, into your media.  You'd be looking at something like this:
 

If it doesn't make sense please let me know and I'll try to find a better video or photos.  If you have any concerns about bacteria in the tank and interrupting the cycle you can take the cartridge that you have now and just set it near the filter in the tank for 7-14 days and it will allow the new sponge to take in some of the bacteria and start colonizing the new media.  If the ceramic has been in there a while, there's no real need to do this.

This should help to remove the film as well that you're seeing if this isn't the while biofilm I was mentioning earlier.

[BeeD]

So treat this one as more of an inquiry than advice. Broadly asking everyone watching your thread, and hoping something helps you in the end.

I've been trying to read a bit about Prime because I don't use it. It sounds like it detoxifies ammonia by converting it to ammonium, but the effect only lasts for 48 hours? Given how low the PH in your aquarium is, I would guess that a lot of it is still spring water. Could there be some 'detoxified' ammonia from the spring water converting back to the toxic form of ammonia? Or are we well past that point now? Is it actually 48 hours or did the internet lie to me again?

[MommaOlenik]

On 7/22/2022 at 1:47 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I'd add an airstone to try to break this up.  It's likely from the food or that slime stuff that shows up on equipment (white film) in lower flow tanks.
 

Understood, so you're saying it was in the tank itself? or inside the intake where the grill is?  I appreciate it!

 

 

Based on just the shape of the foams I think part of the issue, reason for the film and stuff is just the way the filter is loaded.  If you remove the green cartridge you'd want that foam to completely cover the bottom of that filter cavity.  It would have some sort of an oval shape and then water flows up, into your media.  You'd be looking at something like this:
 

If it doesn't make sense please let me know and I'll try to find a better video or photos.  If you have any concerns about bacteria in the tank and interrupting the cycle you can take the cartridge that you have now and just set it near the filter in the tank for 7-14 days and it will allow the new sponge to take in some of the bacteria and start colonizing the new media.  If the ceramic has been in there a while, there's no real need to do this.

This should help to remove the film as well that you're seeing if this isn't the while biofilm I was mentioning earlier.

Just went to the local pet store. They didn’t have any small air stones so I’ll have to get one off of Amazon. But does this look about right? And just to be sure… no charcoal right?

Edited July 22, 2022 by MommaOlenik

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/22/2022 at 1:55 PM, MommaOlenik said:

Just went to the local pet store. They didn’t have any small air stones so I’ll have to get one off of Amazon. But does this look about right? And just to be sure… no charcoal right?

Charcoal/carbon is fine as long as you're not actively running meds. It is not required for day to day filtration.

The AC50 sponge should work well for your use. I believe the other one shown is the same sponge but a different thickness.

The ziss ones from ACO are really nice airstones because you can adjust the flow. There's a few of them that have this feature. I would recommend not getting the very cheap lee's or others because I've broken the stems off about a dozen times and been stuck without an airstone.

On 7/22/2022 at 1:46 PM, BrettD said:

I've been trying to read a bit about Prime because I don't use it. It sounds like it detoxifies ammonia by converting it to ammonium, but the effect only lasts for 48 hours? Given how low the PH in your aquarium is, I would guess that a lot of it is still spring water. Could there be some 'detoxified' ammonia from the spring water converting back to the toxic form of ammonia? Or are we well past that point now? Is it actually 48 hours or did the internet lie to me again?

This is a pretty good point and this is one of the main reasons I don't like to treat ammonia by using prime daily.

Sachems website states that prime works for the time specified. It also says DO NOT dose prime more than once every 24 hours.

One of the safest ways to manage ammonia, nitrites is with water changes. Given the issues with cycle and tap, hopefully this gets easier!

[MommaOlenik]

Ok, so I used the two pieces of sponge I already had in there. Putting the coarsest one on the bottom and then layered a piece of each of the other ones I got on top. I rinsed them all thoroughly. There was just enough room for the little bio max ceramic things on top. Lastly, I put the filter cartridge next to the filter. Just in case. What do you think? And of course Moby… cause he’s cute but a little too wiggly for a glamor shot but that’s just one of the things we love about him ❤️

[nabokovfan87]

Looks great. Hopefully it's easier to maintain. Just remember to clean the media and stuff with dechlorinated or tank water from now on.

Keep an eye on test results, but you should see things settle down a bit easier now.

[MommaOlenik]

On 7/22/2022 at 5:48 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Charcoal/carbon is fine as long as you're not actively running meds. It is not required for day to day filtration.

The AC50 sponge should work well for your use. I believe the other one shown is the same sponge but a different thickness.

The ziss ones from ACO are really nice airstones because you can adjust the flow. There's a few of them that have this feature. I would recommend not getting the very cheap lee's or others because I've broken the stems off about a dozen times and been stuck without an airstone.

This is a pretty good point and this is one of the main reasons I don't like to treat ammonia by using prime daily.

Sachems website states that prime works for the time specified. It also says DO NOT dose prime more than once every 24 hours.

One of the safest ways to manage ammonia, nitrites is with water changes. Given the issues with cycle and tap, hopefully this gets easier!

The only thing with this is that I’m not seeing ammonia. Or do you mean it could be converting it to ammonium and that’s why I’m showing no ammonia with a ton of nitrite? Or am I missing what you’re saying?  I am doing water changes every other day but still using spring water that I’ve tested prior to treating with anything to ensure there’s no ammonia or anything in it. I want to keep with that until I see it has fully cycled to ensure there’s enough bacteria to handle the ammonia in my tap water which can sometimes be at 1 ppm or higher. What do you guys think? 

[MommaOlenik]

On 7/22/2022 at 5:51 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Looks great. Hopefully it's easier to maintain. Just remember to clean the media and stuff with dechlorinated or tank water from now on.

Keep an eye on test results, but you should see things settle down a bit easier now.

Thank you all so much for your help. I really appreciate it. Either way we are still better than we were when I first came here. So I am nothing but thankful.  I just ordered an air stone. It should be here Sunday so hopefully that will help too. 

[BeeD]

On 7/22/2022 at 4:57 PM, MommaOlenik said:

The only thing with this is that I’m not seeing ammonia. Or do you mean it could be converting it to ammonium and that’s why I’m showing no ammonia with a ton of nitrite? Or am I missing what you’re saying?  I am doing water changes every other day but still using spring water that I’ve tested prior to treating with anything to ensure there’s no ammonia or anything in it. I want to keep with that until I see it has fully cycled to ensure there’s enough bacteria to handle the ammonia in my tap water which can sometimes be at 1 ppm or higher. What do you guys think? 

Well I was kind of thinking that the spike seemed a little high. But when your plants died, they stopped soaking up ammonia, and it's possible that it is just from that. If Prime is converting ammonia to ammonium for only 48 hours, that could also explain some of the sudden return of ammonia. Either way, I think once your filtration is finally cycled, you should see stability.

 

Edited July 22, 2022 by BrettD

[face]

api test can detect ammonia and ammonium very few tests test for ammonia only ammonia alert badge and seachem liquid tests are the only ones im aware of

that said Prime can mess with tests(lowering them)

also (and let me be clear im no chemist this is just what I've read) Prime can't turn ammonia  to ammonium the only way to do that is lowering the ph or temperature if Prime is reducing ammonia its binding it up as some other chemical

also also lol good luck i hope this rollercoaster ride stops soon.

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/22/2022 at 1:46 PM, BrettD said:

I've been trying to read a bit about Prime because I don't use it. It sounds like it detoxifies ammonia by converting it to ammonium, but the effect only lasts for 48 hours? Given how low the PH in your aquarium is, I would guess that a lot of it is still spring water. Could there be some 'detoxified' ammonia from the spring water converting back to the toxic form of ammonia? Or are we well past that point now? Is it actually 48 hours or did the internet lie to me again?

This video explains really well the interaction between dechlorinator, ammonia spikes, and water changes.

 

[MommaOlenik]

Alright so after having an existential crisis over whether I should even have a fish in an aquarium in my house after this whole debacle. I decided to go ahead and get rid of the filter cartridge. It was making the water smell funky and I have been wanting rid of it for weeks now. So I just pulled off the bandaid and removed it. Everyday since the water levels have been steadily going down and for the passed 2 days 🤞🏼 it has been staying at zero. I’m not going to get too excited but that’s where we are. On another note… the air stone is NOT for Moby. He took off running as soon as I put it in and would not come out. So I’ll just remove any film by hand. Thanks again everyone. Hopefully we are getting there. 

On 7/24/2022 at 4:09 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

This video explains really well the interaction between dechlorinator, ammonia spikes, and water changes.

 

I watched this video a few weeks ago. Super helpful. I just watched it again as a refresher. Thanks for posting it for others to see if they haven’t seen it. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/25/2022 at 2:39 PM, MommaOlenik said:

He took off running as soon as I put it in and would not come out. So I’ll just remove any film by hand. Thanks again everyone. Hopefully we are getting there. 

That is really awesome to hear the progress. Definitely weird that the cartridge was doing that in some capacity.  On your airstone is it one of the adjustable ones?  I was reading something about fish and how noise can stress them.  Maybe that is what Moby was reacting to?  I saw it once in the ACO videos, the ziss airstone, you add on an extra felt piece and then you can adjust it to be pretty calm / silent as a result.  I can take a video of mine if you want to see it.  The water "moves", but I would think it's pretty gentle flow and noise. 

[MommaOlenik]

On 7/25/2022 at 8:49 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

That is really awesome to hear the progress. Definitely weird that the cartridge was doing that in some capacity.  On your airstone is it one of the adjustable ones?  I was reading something about fish and how noise can stress them.  Maybe that is what Moby was reacting to?  I saw it once in the ACO videos, the ziss airstone, you add on an extra felt piece and then you can adjust it to be pretty calm / silent as a result.  I can take a video of mine if you want to see it.  The water "moves", but I would think it's pretty gentle flow and noise. 

I don’t know if it was the cartridge. It could just be a coincidence. At this point who knows. I’ll just be happy when it stays this way and I can go back to testing once a week or so. I’ve gone through so many of the test kits since this all started lol. I should have just listened to you on the airstone. I did the opposite and bought a cheap one so it is not adjustable and probably more suited for a 50 gallon not a 5. I would love to see yours if you wouldn’t mind. That would be great thank you!! 

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/25/2022 at 7:30 PM, MommaOlenik said:

I did the opposite and bought a cheap one so it is not adjustable and probably more suited for a 50 gallon not a 5. I would love to see yours if you wouldn’t mind. That would be great thank you!! 

I have both so it's all good either way.  The weirdest thing for me is how different flow can be even with the same stone.  Being able to adjust the pump, to adjust the flow is something I'll always try to have for situations like what you're going through.  Let me get that for you, I'll try record both and show you the adjustment stuff. 🙂

Youtube is still processing, but here's the links.

Normal airstone:
29G Tank - 40G rated airpump, I can run 2x airstones/filters very easily, not quite 3.

Ziss Airstone:
29G Tank - 150G rated "deep" air pump (tetra AP150).  I can run 3-4 items on one pump pretty easily.

Keep in mind on the ziss you can still controll pressure / bubble size by using the felt discs. The normal airstones will eventually need to be replaced, but the ziss ones or other plastic ones shouldn't. (ziss = plastic with felt disks)

Edited July 26, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[MommaOlenik]

On 7/25/2022 at 11:40 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I have both so it's all good either way.  The weirdest thing for me is how different flow can be even with the same stone.  Being able to adjust the pump, to adjust the flow is something I'll always try to have for situations like what you're going through.  Let me get that for you, I'll try record both and show you the adjustment stuff. 🙂

Youtube is still processing, but here's the links.

Normal airstone:
29G Tank - 40G rated airpump, I can run 2x airstones/filters very easily, not quite 3.

Ziss Airstone:
29G Tank - 150G rated "deep" air pump (tetra AP150).  I can run 3-4 items on one pump pretty easily.

Keep in mind on the ziss you can still controll pressure / bubble size by using the felt discs. The normal airstones will eventually need to be replaced, but the ziss ones or other plastic ones shouldn't. (ziss = plastic with felt disks)

Oh wow yeah the one I got was too much. I need something like those that I can control. Where do you get yours from if you don’t mind sharing? Thank you so much!

Anyone interested in an update… I spoke too soon 😩

It’s not terrible but still there 🤬

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/27/2022 at 3:02 PM, MommaOlenik said:

Oh wow yeah the one I got was too much. I need something like those that I can control. Where do you get yours from if you don’t mind sharing? Thank you so much!

I got the gang valve from amazon, aquaneat or something is likely the brand.  Aquarium co-op sells all of the stuff now.  Ziss airstones, metal gang valve, and they all are what I run.

 

 

On 7/27/2022 at 3:02 PM, MommaOlenik said:

Anyone interested in an update… I spoke too soon 😩

It’s not terrible but still there 🤬

LOL one of these days I promise I won't try to move the bottles out of the way so I can see the color chart.  My dyslexia has me doing comical things trying to get the color chart order in line with the bottle order in line with the vial order.

I saw the one above and just had to giggle.  "nah, I can't tell".

I think the values are "within range", but just keep an eye out.  You're definitely making progress!

 

[Tanked]

I also use the air stone/gang valve combination.  Originally added to the no tech tank to clear the unusually heavy surface biofilm, the film was gone in a couple of days.  Presently I have added one to my 29 gl. mostly tetra tank as part of another experiment.  The area near the air stone seems to have become the more popular part of the tank.  I think the added air will help correct some of your issues, and initially bleeding off some of the air will allow Moaby to adjust.  It is also easier on the air pump.