Help Please!

[nabokovfan87]

Still some ammonia, but hopefully the plants take it out pretty easily.  If you can, in future, I'd recommend getting a 15L or 20L tank. It's a lot more water, slightly easier to care for.  It's a ton of space for a betta, but it's also just a nice size tank for a countertop and a lot of uses.  Just wanted to mention it if you're ever looking for another one or moving this to a different place.

 

On 7/8/2022 at 7:03 PM, MommaOlenik said:

So I bit the bullet and took the 2 hour drive to the closest fish store. I got 2 different kinds of floating plants and some new additions. Finally looking more like it did before that guy told me to throw out all of my beautiful plants 🫠.Plus, Moby was super intrigued and seemed to like the new decor.  Always a bonus ☺️

That's awesome. It's a really beautiful tank and you're definitely setup for long term success.  I hope everything continues to improve and the betta is healthy and happy.

[MommaOlenik]

On 7/8/2022 at 10:14 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Still some ammonia, but hopefully the plants take it out pretty easily.  If you can, in future, I'd recommend getting a 15L or 20L tank. It's a lot more water, slightly easier to care for.  It's a ton of space for a betta, but it's also just a nice size tank for a countertop and a lot of uses.  Just wanted to mention it if you're ever looking for another one or moving this to a different place.

 

That's awesome. It's a really beautiful tank and you're definitely setup for long term success.  I hope everything continues to improve and the betta is healthy and happy.

Thank you! It actually is a 20L tank or 5 gallon. But I was considering getting something a little bigger.  Then all this happened. Still something possibly for the future. 

Edited July 9, 2022 by MommaOlenik

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/8/2022 at 7:27 PM, MommaOlenik said:

Thank you! It actually is a 20L tank or 5 gallon. But I was considering getting something a little bigger. But then all this happened. 

Ah, very cool.  I meant the "tank size" called 20L.  It's an aqueon branding thing.  they have a 20X (standard), 20H, or 20L, where the letter is whether or not the tank is high/tall or a shallower tank with a longer dimensions. 

A good thing to have is something like this, just in case you're ever trying to find a lid or something for the randomly named tank.  This sheet is specific to aqueon / petco tanks they typically have on sale at the $/gallon sales. I think it only goes from a 10G up to a 75G now.

Edited July 9, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[MommaOlenik]

On 7/8/2022 at 10:31 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Ah, very cool.  I meant the "tank size" called 20L.  It's an aqueon branding thing.  they have a 20X (standard), 20H, or 20L, where the letter is whether or not the tank is high/tall or a shallower tank with a longer dimensions. 

A good thing to have is something like this, just in case you're ever trying to find a lid or something for the randomly named tank.  This sheet is specific to aqueon / petco tanks they typically have on sale at the $/gallon sales. I think it only goes from a 10G up to a 75G now.

Oh gotcha. Thank you all good to know!!

[MommaOlenik]

Ok so now what?!?! It was seeming to get better and now everything is so high! He is looking out the back of the tank and won’t come out and his little fins are starting to look tattered. What am I doing wrong? The lady at the fish store suggested that I just continue adding the Stability or Quick Start daily until there is no more ammonia showing up on the kit and then do a water change  is that good advise? She said I didn’t need to continue using Prime but I did tonight just with everything being so high. Do you think I’m doing the right thing?

Edited July 11, 2022 by MommaOlenik

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/10/2022 at 6:56 PM, MommaOlenik said:

She said I didn’t need to continue using Prime but I did tonight just with everything being so high. Do you think I’m doing the right thing?

you're definitely going to want to use prime once every 24 hours for right now. No more than that though.

Adding the bacteria (stability) is perfectly fine, keep dosing it until the bottle is completely used, usually around 7 days.

Question, if you take your hand and disturb the substrate is there a lot of gunk that floats into the water column?  It looks like it's just gravel, not a planted substrate that could be leeching ammonia.

I would move the fish temporarily (for an hour or two), disturb the substrate and best you can without uprooting the plants and then do a good gravel vac / water change.  This should get things to drop in value and then daily you'll want to dose with prime, gravel vac (if you need to), and then perform a 30% water change.  Within a few days you hopefully will see ammonia cut in half and decreasing as well as the bacteria itself taking hold.

Salt would also be beneficial if/when you do move the fish to another tank or tub just for the sake of helping to reduce symptoms from ammonia burn and nitrites damage.
 

On 7/10/2022 at 6:56 PM, MommaOlenik said:

He is looking out the back of the tank and won’t come out and his little fins are starting to look tattered.

May or may not be this, but hopefully this helps in the event that you need to treat for it.

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/faqs/how-to-treat-fin-rot

[MommaOlenik]

On 7/11/2022 at 1:34 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

you're definitely going to want to use prime once every 24 hours for right now. No more than that though.

Adding the bacteria (stability) is perfectly fine, keep dosing it until the bottle is completely used, usually around 7 days.

Question, if you take your hand and disturb the substrate is there a lot of gunk that floats into the water column?  It looks like it's just gravel, not a planted substrate that could be leeching ammonia.

I would move the fish temporarily (for an hour or two), disturb the substrate and best you can without uprooting the plants and then do a good gravel vac / water change.  This should get things to drop in value and then daily you'll want to dose with prime, gravel vac (if you need to), and then perform a 30% water change.  Within a few days you hopefully will see ammonia cut in half and decreasing as well as the bacteria itself taking hold.

Salt would also be beneficial if/when you do move the fish to another tank or tub just for the sake of helping to reduce symptoms from ammonia burn and nitrites damage.
 

May or may not be this, but hopefully this helps in the event that you need to treat for it.

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/faqs/how-to-treat-fin-rot

I have been dosing the stability and QuickStart alternating for over two weeks now daily. I bought a huge bottle, so I still have plenty. But I’m only doing a 1/2 a cap per day per bottle’s instructions for a 5 gallon tank. There is NOTHING in the gravel. I did what you suggested twice already and nothing comes out of the gravel. I’ve been doing multiple water changes a week per everyone’s advise but this is the third time it’s cycled like this where I get the big spikes and then it’s good for a day or two and then back to high ammonia and then the spikes, repeat. I slowly transitioned him to spring water (which I test every time I open a bottle for everything and it’s free of anything). There’s no way there’s any tap water left in the tank now. I know his water is clean I just can’t figure out why it keeps doing this and it is killing me that my poor fish is having to go through this. I bought more plants and floating plants and have put in a tbs of salt. I have bought everything on the market per suggestions but then stopped because I worried I was doing too much and causing the spikes. I even stopped feeding him for almost 5 days per one of the co-op videos and it continued to rise. I used to feed him three small pellets a day and now am feeding him 3 pellets every 2-3 days. 

Edited July 11, 2022 by MommaOlenik

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/11/2022 at 8:29 AM, MommaOlenik said:

There is NOTHING in the gravel. I did what you suggested twice already and nothing comes out of the gravel.

Good!  That's a good thing.
 

On 7/11/2022 at 8:29 AM, MommaOlenik said:

I get the big spikes and then it’s good for a day or two and then back to high ammonia and then the spikes, repeat.

This means you're having an issue with "strong bacteria".  Please share pictures of all of your filtration so we can see if there's an issue there.  Something could've happened where it's as simple as the pump slowed down and is causing everything.  We need to ensure the impeller is working, flow is working, and that there is sufficient media for the bacteria (apart from anything inside the tank).

Something similar to this would be my recommendation.  It looks like the pump access is via the plate on the bottom where you can inspect the pump for clogs.
 

 

Edited July 11, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[MommaOlenik]

On 7/11/2022 at 12:46 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Good!  That's a good thing.
 

This means you're having an issue with "strong bacteria".  Please share pictures of all of your filtration so we can see if there's an issue there.  Something could've happened where it's as simple as the pump slowed down and is causing everything.  We need to ensure the impeller is working, flow is working, and that there is sufficient media for the bacteria (apart from anything inside the tank).

Something similar to this would be my recommendation.  It looks like the pump access is via the plate on the bottom where you can inspect the pump for clogs.
 

 

Here is a photo looking down into the filter. There is the charcoal cartridge and ceramic bio beads or whatever they’re called. There’s also a sponge in the bottom that I took a picture of the box. The flow seems the same and is moving the floating plants around and causing some current. I’d like to remove the cartridge or replace it but I’m afraid to with the bacteria shortage right now. Hope that helps. Let me know if you want me to do something different. I took a whole video but it wouldn’t let me upload it. I’m going to watch your video now. Thank you

[MommaOlenik]

Mine is the second one that you can’t open the bottom. I am really scared to take any steps backward at this point. But I did start cycling another tank about 2 weeks ago that I’m basically experimenting with so I can trial and error without worrying about a fish. It had tons of ammonia from a sick fish I rescued and tried to save but ultimately lost. Right now it has no ammonia and high nitrates and nitrites. So as soon as it gets to the point where it seems fully cycled I’m going to try the suggestions in this video and per others on this feed and see how it affects the bacterial filter. Thank you for sharing that one. I like that it was about my specific filter so it reduces the room for error ☺️ Unless you think I should do something different. Honestly I’m just terrified at this point to do much of anything. This whole thing has humbled me realizing that I don’t know as much as I thought I did or should know owning a fish. 

Edited July 11, 2022 by MommaOlenik

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/11/2022 at 3:08 PM, MommaOlenik said:

I’d like to remove the cartridge or replace it but I’m afraid to with the bacteria shortage right now.

I think you can just remove it entirely.  If you're worried about bacteria itself, set it inside the tank for a few days while you are dosing the bacteria from the bottle to seed the new media. 

The way you have it setup is perfect!



Whenever you clean it, be sure to inspect that input grate on the bottom for junk, food, etc. and try to clean it out as best you can.   I don't know if this helps, but it is in the manual for this filter and there should be some way to disassemble it to check the pump.

If not, depending if you have the click or the screws I can try to find a video.  I'm always worried I'm going to snap a little plastic clip, so I understand the concern about getting into that pump/impeller.



 

On 7/11/2022 at 3:24 PM, MommaOlenik said:

I am really scared to take any steps backward at this point.

I totally understand the concern.  I hope that signs on your betta improve and the slight tweaks are allowing for a no-stress environment for him.

[MommaOlenik]

On 7/11/2022 at 6:42 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I think you can just remove it entirely.  If you're worried about bacteria itself, set it inside the tank for a few days while you are dosing the bacteria from the bottle to seed the new media. 

The way you have it setup is perfect!



Whenever you clean it, be sure to inspect that input grate on the bottom for junk, food, etc. and try to clean it out as best you can.   I don't know if this helps, but it is in the manual for this filter and there should be some way to disassemble it to check the pump.

If not, depending if you have the click or the screws I can try to find a video.  I'm always worried I'm going to snap a little plastic clip, so I understand the concern about getting into that pump/impeller.



 

I totally understand the concern.  I hope that signs on your betta improve and the slight tweaks are allowing for a no-stress environment for him.

Thank you all of your advise is really helpful I appreciate it. Everything is still super high today even with the maximum dose of prime 😞 This is awful I really thought after everything I’d be nearing the end by now. 

Is there any reason why I couldn’t double the dose of QuickStart or stability?

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/12/2022 at 6:59 PM, MommaOlenik said:

Is there any reason why I couldn’t double the dose of QuickStart or stability?

Stability you can double. It's just bacteria. Quick start is the same thing.  You only need to dose 1 of those.

What you can do, I think it might be in the directions. Perform a big dose on day 1. then the following day you have a smaller dose.

I would suggest sticking with just stability for right now.  Keep in mind both of them likely need to be refrigerated once it's opened. 

Today, Dose in 3x the normal dose.
Next 7 days: Dose in the normal dose for your tank.

Be sure to shake the bottle prior to dosing and the liquid should look pretty opaque.

For Seachem Stability:

Quote

Use 1 capful (5 mL) for each 40 L (10 US gallons) on the first day with a new aquarium. Then use 1 capful for each 80 L (20 US gallons) daily for 7 days.

Can Stability™ be overdosed?

A: It is very hard to overdose Stability. You can really never have too much beneficial bacteria. The worst thing that could happen is a bacterial bloom in the water column, but this is rare and will clear on its own, should it occur.

I have finished the suggested 7-day dosing, however, my tank is still not fully cycled. Why?

A: Since every tank will cycle differently, it is difficult for us to give an exact time frame as to when your tank will be fully cycled. However, generally most tanks are cycled within 4-6 weeks.

 

On 7/12/2022 at 6:59 PM, MommaOlenik said:

Ammonia looks lower! (.25 ppm?)
Nitrite: Difficult to tell from here, maybe 0.5?
Nitrate: 30 ppm (this is safe / good!)

Keep in mind, some tests might just darken if you let them sit.  So let's say you let it sit for 15 minutes, but the directions say 5 minutes, you might be getting high results because of that.

The biggest concern and main thing is just to keep an eye on ammonia as a focus.  As long as it's not skyrocketing, it means things are working.  If we see it go up, then we need to find out where the ammonia is coming from apart from just the fish.

How is the fish doing, how are the fins and gills looking?

Edited July 13, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Wrencher_Scott]

Have you not figured out that Stability does nothing? (well nothing good anyway) If it was so good the tank would be cycled and would have no ammonia and all would be well. 

Please just give the poor fish clean water by changing about 1/4 of it a day (with prime or any chlorine conditioner), quit adding all that stuff and just wait for the filter to cycle. This means leave it alone, don't clean it.

Try not to bother the fish too much, leave the light off, that kind of thing. No doubt it is stressed. 

Sounds like the other tank is cycling so it would be good to add it's filter media to the fishes tank. Put as much media in it as possible, add it all of switch out what you have to. 

 

[Guppysnail]

For Stability it says on the bottle adding to much causes a cloudy bacteria bloom. This consumes oxygen and stresses fish. I do not use bottle bacteria but my niece did. She overdosed stability and it did indeed cause a very dense bacteria cloud. Looked like thick smoke swirling in her tank. It took weeks to clear up.  Less is best when adding anything to tanks. The fish breathe anything in the water and they were not meant to breath that sort of stuff. Relax I promise it will get there. Starting new tanks tries everyone’s patients. 🤗

[BeeD]

Is it possible for the double dosing QuickStart and Stability creates a situation where the bacteria consume all of the available ammonia, and then the majority of the bacteria starve out, restarting the cycle to day 1? 

[BeeD]

a

Edited July 15, 2022 by BrettD
reddit

[MommaOlenik]

On 7/15/2022 at 1:42 PM, BrettD said:

Is it possible for the double dosing QuickStart and Stability creates a situation where the bacteria consume all of the available ammonia, and then the majority of the bacteria starve out, restarting the cycle to day 1? 

I alternate do one for a few days and another for a few. But never at the same time. The fish store recommended doing that for whatever reason but I may look into it. 
 

[MommaOlenik]

Sorry I haven’t updated in a while. I’ve been beside myself about this whole thing. So… I think I may have figured out the problem. I was testing every bottle of spring water but just from the top and syringing a bit out. Everyone was coming up free of everything but still used a water softener and let it aerate at least an hour before using it. But then I’ve gone through like 5 bottle #2 ammonia solution so I started doing every few. Still all coming up clean. However, yesterday I forgot so I just poured what was left in the very bottom of the jug into a test tube and it was off the chart HIGH. So… is it possible all the ammonia was sinking to the bottom of the jugs?!?!?! Here is the test tube compared to where his tank water is currently. So now I’m not sure where to go from here. If I should try a different brand of spring water or just go back to my tap water which was fine for the past two years until I crashed the cycle. 

Edited July 16, 2022 by MommaOlenik

[BeeD]

Obviously I'm not there, but it sounds like treated tap water was probably fine. The cause was probably some of the other things mentioned. I've been in a similar situation. Personally whenever I switch water sources for smaller tanks, I just prep a 5 gallon with the new water and change maybe a cup or two a day until it's done. It might be overly cautious, but it works.

[MommaOlenik]

On 7/16/2022 at 2:27 PM, BrettD said:

Obviously I'm not there, but it sounds like treated tap water was probably fine. The cause was probably some of the other things mentioned. I've been in a similar situation. Personally whenever I switch water sources for smaller tanks, I just prep a 5 gallon with the new water and change maybe a cup or two a day until it's done. It might be overly cautious, but it works.

Yeah I just shook all 10 gallons of spring water and tested them. Everyone had significant amounts of ammonia. I can’t believe I didn’t think to shake them. I always test water from the bottom of the tank but never put two and two together. Since the ammonia is almost zero and the nitrites and nitrates are spiking I think I’m just going to dose with the prime because I think I must have a good amount of bacteria considering how much ammonia it has actually been processing. The nitrites are super high right now but that happened before. Also the other tank I started just to play around and experiment without putting a fish through the trauma- has completely cycled and I’m sure that’s due to me not doing near as many water changes. I actually added a fish about three days ago and it is still going strong. The nitrates are at about 10-20 but I’m gonna just keep an eye on it. Can I just say… really? Spring water has that much ammonia in it?!?! Honestly my tap water has a fraction of what this stuff is testing. So frustrating but I think we are getting there. 

Edited July 17, 2022 by MommaOlenik

[MommaOlenik]

Don’t get me wrong… I’m happier with todays results than yesterdays that was super high with nitrites. However, is it weird or indicative of anything that the nitrites are still high but the nitrates are registering 0 and the ammonia is slightly back?

[MommaOlenik]

On a lighter note too… the fish tank that I cycled and added a fish to the other day is doing really well. We are even getting some brown algae growing! He still needs a name so I’m open to suggestions. I’ve been calling him (F)Ishmael. Like Ishmael but with an F. I thought it was clever but my kids wanted to name him Dumbo because he is an elephant ear betta or something like that. Again… thank you all for taking the time to help me through this. I really appreciate it!!

Edited July 19, 2022 by MommaOlenik

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/19/2022 at 2:34 PM, MommaOlenik said:

However, is it weird or indicative of anything that the nitrites are still high but the nitrates are registering 0 and the ammonia is slightly back?

Floating plants took up nitrates but the tank is still processing the other stuff into nitrates, essentially.

On 7/19/2022 at 3:44 PM, MommaOlenik said:

I’ve been calling him (F)Ishmael. Like Ishmael but with an F.

Awesome book. I love the name.

[MommaOlenik]

On 7/19/2022 at 9:18 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Floating plants took up nitrates but the tank is still processing the other stuff into nitrates, essentially.

Awesome book. I love the name.

Thanks! Figured it was fitting considering my other betta’s name is Moby ☺️