caylentor Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 Hello! Unfortunately it's me again. Two of my white cloud mountain minnows are displaying symptoms consistent with the parasite infection we had last year. We've tried levamisole previously unsuccessfully so on the vet's recommendation I've got some flubendazole (we tried fenbendazole in food without much luck either). This is what we're using: https://www.fishkeeper.co.uk/aquacare-anti-fluke-wormer-20ml My concern is that the medicine is dangerous to the shrimp, and we have about 13 Amano Shrimp living in the aquarium. I was going to try to catch them and move them to a temporary tank, and then move them back after we'd done a water change and added carbon. My questions are: is this a sensible plan? how long should we leave the flubendazole in? Would 24 hours suffice? is it safe to move the shrimp back after 24 hours, a ~50% water change and adding carbon? Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quikv6 Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 I have used flubendazole many times, though I don't have shrimp, so I can't speak to that part of it. It has been hands down the best treatment I have found for wasting disease in fish that aren't eating, or spitting food. I generally done have 3 doses total, 3 days apart for each dose, with a 50% water change before the redose. Make sure to really do your best to dissolve the med.....it isn't very soluable, and somewhat difficult to work with. But it works....and works well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caylentor Posted July 2, 2022 Author Share Posted July 2, 2022 Thank you for the tips! I'm just wary about adding the shrimp back too soon and losing them as a consequence. I don't know how long the medication stays effective for. Fingers crossed it helps my minnows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 I would leave it a couple of weeks before reintroducing your shrimp back to the main tank after adding flubendazole to be on the the safe side even in small doses flubendazole is extremely toxic to shrimp and snails Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caylentor Posted July 2, 2022 Author Share Posted July 2, 2022 Ah, that could be a problem. I don't really have a spare backup tank - I was going to keep them in a tub with an airstone as a temporary solution. Would it still be that long with Purigen and carbon in the filter? I think they'd be ok for a day or so in the emergency container but I don't think it'll be good for them long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 (edited) What I would do is two 50% water changes and run active carbon and purigen for 48hr to be on the safe then I would add one back in and monitor it for a couple of hours before putting the remaining shrimp back in the tanks Edited July 2, 2022 by Colu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caylentor Posted July 4, 2022 Author Share Posted July 4, 2022 @quikv6 how long did it take for you to see a recovery in your fish? The two of mine off their food are still acting much the same today 24 hours after dosing. I've set up something a little more long-term for the shrimp. It won't last them forever but should do them a few days at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quikv6 Posted July 4, 2022 Share Posted July 4, 2022 48 hours, roughly. I add it to the water column, and try to put some in the food. In all cases, the fish was always trying to eat, but the parasite didn't let the fish swallow, resulting in spitting. Usually after 2 days, I noticed the fish can start keeping food down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caylentor Posted July 4, 2022 Author Share Posted July 4, 2022 Thank you! Fingers crossed for tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quikv6 Posted July 4, 2022 Share Posted July 4, 2022 (edited) Good Luck...keep us posted! Edited July 4, 2022 by quikv6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caylentor Posted July 13, 2022 Author Share Posted July 13, 2022 Just following up on the thread. So I dosed 3 times 3 days apart as you said - the fish didn't recover super quickly but both are now eating again and managing to keep food in, which is great. The others seem fine too. I've not moved the shrimp back yet, but will in a couple more days. My one concern is I've spotted some freshwater limpets, snails and flatworms in the substrate. I thought the flubendazole would be dangerous for them? I'm a little concerned that if they survived then the parasitic nematodes might have done and I don't really want to have to find all the shrimp again! Is it worth treating pre-emptively in future, or waiting until symptoms manifest? I usually try to avoid medicating without reason but we've been dealing with this for over a year at this stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quikv6 Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 I have a small hospital tank set up, so I just treat any fish that exhibit these wasting symptoms. I don't treat unless I witness the symptoms. I am really glad they are eating and managing to keep the food down. Try to fatten them up and bring them up to speed now. Personally, I have had better luck with Flubendazole (especially when the fish isn't eating or spitting), even though Levamisole seems to be the first recommendation for wasting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caylentor Posted August 10, 2022 Author Share Posted August 10, 2022 Thread follow up, just in case anyone else has similar issues. So flubendazole seemed to work really well - all the fish recovered, and have been fine. Unfortunately two are currently coming down with symptoms again. Do I really need to repeat the dose monthly? Catching the shrimp and moving them to a backup tank every month is going to be a nightmare. One of the fish that isn't eating has a little bump in her belly, when I saw this last year the fish ended up dying after around two weeks, so hopefully another treatment will head that off. It's just very demoralising to constantly be going through this, let alone the impact on the aquarium inhabitants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick-In-Of-TheSea Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 On 8/10/2022 at 9:01 AM, caylentor said: Thread follow up, just in case anyone else has similar issues. So flubendazole seemed to work really well - all the fish recovered, and have been fine. Unfortunately two are currently coming down with symptoms again. Do I really need to repeat the dose monthly? Catching the shrimp and moving them to a backup tank every month is going to be a nightmare. One of the fish that isn't eating has a little bump in her belly, when I saw this last year the fish ended up dying after around two weeks, so hopefully another treatment will head that off. It's just very demoralising to constantly be going through this, let alone the impact on the aquarium inhabitants. Why not leave the shrimp stay and then move the fish out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caylentor Posted August 10, 2022 Author Share Posted August 10, 2022 (edited) On 8/10/2022 at 2:05 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said: Why not leave the shrimp stay and then move the fish out? We'd still have eggs in the substrate doing that, wouldn't we? The shrimp also seem far less bothered by getting moved than the fish do, and it's easier to keep a temporary shrimp tank since they don't seem to produce so much waste. It is a reasonable suggestion though. How long would you need to bath the fish though, for flubendazole to work? Is it 24 hours or less? Edited August 10, 2022 by caylentor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick-In-Of-TheSea Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 On 8/10/2022 at 10:11 AM, caylentor said: How long would you need to bath the fish though, for flubendazole to work? Is it 24 hours or less? Dr. @Colu might be able to help answer this question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quikv6 Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 I have had to use Flubendazole on the same fish on different occasions. I try to do 3 doses during the initial treatment for wasting. I believe I just dosed twice in the scenarios mentioned. A month or two later, I did need to treat that fish again. I have found Flubendazole to be a fantastic, fast acting med for wasting disease. To me, it works far better than Levamisole specifically when the fish is not eating at all, or can't swallow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabokovfan87 Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 On 7/2/2022 at 3:07 PM, Colu said: I would leave it a couple of weeks before reintroducing your shrimp back to the main tank after adding flubendazole to be on the the safe side even in small doses flubendazole is extremely toxic to shrimp and snails second to that. Run some carbon to be very safe. Especially with shrimp. amanos aren't cheap 😞 On 8/10/2022 at 6:05 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said: Why not leave the shrimp stay and then move the fish out? Usually with parasites you're just treating the tank and doing gravel vacs is pretty critical. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 On 8/10/2022 at 3:11 PM, caylentor said: We'd still have eggs in the substrate doing that, wouldn't we? The shrimp also seem far less bothered by getting moved than the fish do, and it's easier to keep a temporary shrimp tank since they don't seem to produce so much waste. It is a reasonable suggestion though. How long would you need to bath the fish though, for flubendazole to work? Is it 24 hours or less? You can leave flubendazole for up to 72hr before doing a water change most medication containing flubendazole recommend a water change after 24hr 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caylentor Posted August 11, 2022 Author Share Posted August 11, 2022 On 8/11/2022 at 12:34 AM, quikv6 said: I have had to use Flubendazole on the same fish on different occasions. I try to do 3 doses during the initial treatment for wasting. I believe I just dosed twice in the scenarios mentioned. A month or two later, I did need to treat that fish again. I have found Flubendazole to be a fantastic, fast acting med for wasting disease. To me, it works far better than Levamisole specifically when the fish is not eating at all, or can't swallow. For sure, levamisole hasn't seemed to help at all but using flubendazole seems to improve their health (albeit temporarily). I followed your suggestion of 3 doses 3 days apart and that seemed to work. After your second month's treatment did you have to retreat? On 8/11/2022 at 2:46 AM, Colu said: You can leave flubendazole for up to 72hr before doing a water change most medication containing flubendazole recommend a water change after 24hr Does that mean it takes around 24 hours to work? I'm not really sure how rapid meds are adsorbed and how quickly they work. Last time after treatment I did a 50% water change and added carbon, then did another 50% change 24 hours later, then added the shrimp back a day after that and they seem ok so far. That said, I also have freshwater limpets in the tank and the flubendazole didn't seem to touch them. Did I underdose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quikv6 Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 I've observed improvement after 48 hours or so, but that is just a casual observation. I never had to retreat after the second go-around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 (edited) On 8/11/2022 at 8:02 AM, caylentor said: For sure, levamisole hasn't seemed to help at all but using flubendazole seems to improve their health (albeit temporarily). I followed your suggestion of 3 doses 3 days apart and that seemed to work. After your second month's treatment did you have to retreat? Does that mean it takes around 24 hours to work? I'm not really sure how rapid meds are adsorbed and how quickly they work. Last time after treatment I did a 50% water change and added carbon, then did another 50% change 24 hours later, then added the shrimp back a day after that and they seem ok so far. That said, I also have freshwater limpets in the tank and the flubendazole didn't seem to touch them. Did I underdose? Am not familiar with fresh water limpets they might not be as sensitive to the medication as snails I don't think you under dosed as you have seen improvement you will have to follow though with another round of treatment to kill any remaining parasites Edited August 11, 2022 by Colu Missing word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caylentor Posted August 11, 2022 Author Share Posted August 11, 2022 Here's hoping! Thank you very much for all the comments - they're very appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caylentor Posted August 15, 2022 Author Share Posted August 15, 2022 Unfortunately despite a second treatment, the two sick fish are still the same. I caught two worms today in the tank - here's one of them (in a 5ml test tube with 0.1ml of the flubendazole solution, after 2 hours - I'd have hoped it'd have died by now!). It might just be a detritus worm but surely that would have been affected as well? https://photos.app.goo.gl/NVb71RYnpzutu3qt5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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