Amazon Sword stopped growing

[WeehawkenFish]

Hi all, newbie here.  I started my planted tank back in March with some success and many failures, but I'll cut to the chase.  I got these amazon swords (in the corner of the tank) from the coop about 2 months ago.  Upon arrival there was some initial melting but very minimal, and then they started growing great for about a month.  About 3-4 weeks ago they froze in their tracks, and I'd say they may even be retreating in size.  I've started my first battle with hair algae as you can see, albeit somewhat minor right now.  It's got root tabs under it and I dose with Easy Green and Easy Carbon every week.

My big question (aside from how do I get these swords to start growing again)  is how do you guys deal with dialing in your lighting schedule?  I hear Cory talk all the time about dialing in your light + ferts, but not so much on actually how to do it.  I've got about 45 other questions, but for now I'm just happy to join the forum and learn from everyone here.

PH 7.3ish, moderately hard water (6 drops each GH and KH), 30% water changes once a week.  Recently added a red tiger lotus which is kicking ass, so I've just this week started dosing Easy Iron, but my issues with the sword predate this dosing.

 

Edited October 21, 2020 by WeehawkenFish

[Lizzie Block]

My guess would be that it's a nutrient issue.. Swords are quite heavy feeders and yours may benefit from additional root tabs. You didn't mention how much easy green you are dosing - maybe try increasing it to see if that helps the sword bounce back? I shoot for somewhere around 20-25 ppm of nitrates from dosing ferts and test every week or so. That's what I would do anyways. :)
Your second question is complex and can have many answers. I personally find that dialing in your tank basically what everyone refers to as a 'balanced' aquarium means having a consistently running ecosystem with minimal issues/change over time. Like, it takes some trial and error to figure out exactly how much light, ferts, water changes etc are needed for your specific aquarium to require minimal maintenance and have healthy fish and plant growth all at the same time. For example, I find that keeping my lights on for 6 hours per day, dosing exactly one pump of Easy Green, one of Easy Iron and doing weekly 30% water changes balances out my 5 gallon nano tank perfectly. The plants are healthy, fish is very healthy and I have almost zero algae.

That's how I interpret that phrase when I hear it.

[ccurtis]

Swords are very heavy root feeders. I tend to stick 2 or 3 root tabs under each one of mine, once every month or so. I also dose easy green once a week with the recommendations on the bottle. Easy carbon once a week and API leaf zone once a week. My lights are on about 8 hours a day. Tank balance is going to be different for everyone because everyone has different water, different lights, and different plants. Be patient, and don’t be scared to try new things, just understand they won’t happen overnight. Half the fun is finding out what works for your eco-system. 

[Hemali]

Hi, Im pretty sure amazon swords are primarily to entirely root feeders. Try puting a root tab betwen them. Hope this helps ^_^

[Jessica.]

On 10/20/2020 at 10:07 PM, WeehawkenFish said:

My big question (aside from how do I get these swords to start growing again)  is how do you guys deal with dialing in your lighting schedule? 

I deal balancing the lighting on the tank by starting at 7 hours on a medium intensity, then changing based on what I see. If I start to see algae, I'll dial it back to 6 hours until there is more plant mass in the tank. If things are going well after a few weeks of 7 hours, I might bump up to 8 at a higher intensity. Observation, then adjusting. It's also important to pay attention to your fertilizer routine while changing light schedule. Increasing intensity or duration may mean you also need to increase fertilizer dosing. George Farmer, UK aquascaper, recommends no more than 8 hours in a planted tank. There are lots of opinions on best ligthing schedules, but at the end it's all about what you prefer and what works for you. 

You will also get a sense of what light plants need over time, based on their growth. A tank full of anubias might become covered in algae if you run 10 hours of light at full blast, versus a tank of water sprite would probably love that (given enough ferts to keep up with it's growth). 

Based on your photos, you may want to consider scaling back the intensity or duration of your light. It seems like there may be a little bit of algae starting to grow on the plant leaves? 

I had a sword in a high tech, high light/co2 tank that grew quite large. I put 4 root tabs under it every week during a water change. Bottom photo is about 2 months after top side photo. This tank is a 75 gal, 30" tall, for scale. The sword got huge. It got 4 root tabs every week during water changes, and I probably could have given it 6. I suspect the tiger lotus was also benefitting from the root tabs. 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Jessica.

[WeehawkenFish]

@Jessica.thank you (and everyone else) for your reply.  Wow, 4 root tabs every week?  I'll start looking for change in the couch to save up. 

Seriously though, I'll start adding them more regularly. 

[Jessica.]

40 minutes ago, WeehawkenFish said:

Wow, 4 root tabs every week?  I'll start looking for change in the couch to save up. 

It can get pricy. Keep in mind I was injecting high co2 into this tank, so the growth was accelerated. I buy root tabs in bulk from nilocg. It'd be great if the co-op had a bulk root tab option for sale. Some people also stick osmocote pellets in the soil of their aquarium for a cheap root tab substitute (not recommending this, I haven't tried it). If you've ever opened the rock wool on a new plant and see little pellets in it, that's an osmocote-like product. 

[WeehawkenFish]

@Jessica.Since you have a tiger lotus I have a question for you.  I got mine about a month ago and it's doing fantastic so far.  I'm concerned though because I put it in the center of the tank and it's right below the hang-on-back filter.  Do you think the current of the water is going to be an issue as it gets taller?

 

 

[Jessica.]

 

12 minutes ago, WeehawkenFish said:

@Jessica.Since you have a tiger lotus I have a question for you.  I got mine about a month ago and it's doing fantastic so far.  I'm concerned though because I put it in the center of the tank and it's right below the hang-on-back filter.  Do you think the current of the water is going to be an issue as it gets taller?

It's been my experience that flow isn't an issues for tiger lotus, but if it starts getting blown around too much you can either trim the leaves short or move the plant. 

I've found that tiger lotus will grow to the height you trim them. For example, if you cut off every leaf that gets more than 8" tall, the plant will start only growing leaves that are 7" tall. High light will also help keep it compact. In general, high light encourages more compact growth in plants. 

Tiger lotus have some of the most varied and interesting growth habits, in my opinion. If you trim them often, they can stay small. If you let them go wild and give them loads of root tabs, they'll get huge. If you let a few submersed form leaves grow all the way to the waters surface, it will start to put out lilypad type leaves. Here's some pictures showing the lily pad leave type in my tank. I let a lily get huge recently and it's just started to send out these leaves. Once it starts, if I want it to go back to growing submersed leaves, I just need to give it a big trim and remove all the biggest leaves. 

[WeehawkenFish]

@Jessica.those look great.  I'm glad mine is coming in nicely, thanks for the tips.  I wish I had the same success with other plants.  Even the plants that I've just pulled out in the past that I assumed were "dead" had a really good root structure, but were doing nothing above and even dying back.  Maybe I need to up the root tabs across the board,  though the guy sold me Seachem Flourite in the beginning specifically because he said it has plant nutrients in it if I don't rinse the substrate.

[Jessica.]

45 minutes ago, WeehawkenFish said:

Flourite in the beginning specifically because he said it has plant nutrients in it if I don't rinse the substrate.

I’m 90% sure fluorite is inert, not an active substrate like Ada Amazonia or tropica aqua soil. Looking at Seachem a website, it definitely doesn’t have macros in it (nitrogen, phosphates, potassium). Seachem website has a breakdown of the elements in it, but the fact that they say it never has to be replaced makes me think it’s not releasing nutrients for plants. Active Aquasoils that release nutrients say they should be replaced ever few years. Heck, just putting Amazonia in a tank will cause an ammonia spike in a newer tanks. You do need to add root tabs, but I’m thinking that’s not the whole reason you’re not seeing plant growth. 

in terms of upping your root tabs, I wouldn’t go too crazy there yet with adding tons. My tank is an extreme example. One root tab every 4-6 “ apart in the planted sections, plus an extra one for the sword and lily, should be plenty if you’re not running co2. Plants vary in how they uptake nutrients. Some are better at absorbing nutrients in the water column.
 

Did you mention what light you’re running? Is it on a timer? how many hours per day is it on?
Could we see a picture of your whole tank?

This tank has been running since March? 
What’s your temp?

[WeehawkenFish]

@Jessica.thank you so much for your help.  Below is my full tank, it's a 29 gallon.  It's been through a couple transformations but I'll try not to bore you with all the details.

The only plants I can say I've had great success with is the water sprite (back left, just trimmed down and spread them out so they can grow along the wall).  And the floating pennywort in the top right (that stuff grows so fast I'm always cutting it).  The anacharis also does well on the front left, I've recently cut it down to create more stems.  The crypt next to it (in front of the wood)  is new, so it's currently melting.  And in the far right there is crypt lucens that has been there for months and simply doesn't do anything.

When I planted the tiger lotus I also planted the dwarf hair grass around it, which has turned brown but otherwise hasn't moved.  Then there are the swords in the back corner with one piece of Val in front of it (don't get me started on val, everyone has it on their list of easiest plants to grow and this is my third time trying.  I've since started dosing easy carbon cuz I gave up on it, but I guarantee if I pull it up it will have great roots).

The ludwigia was added just a month ago with the lotus and also appears to be doing quite well.

I dose Easy Green, Easy Carbon, and now Easy Iron every week in the recommended amount, during a 30% water change.  The temp is at 76, I have moderately hard water and about a 7.3 PH.  

I just got this Fluval 3.0 this week.  Up until now I was using a Finnex Planted 24/7.  I have put the fluval on an 8 hours/day schedule, but it had been on a 10 hour/day schedule up until now.

I recently bought a 20 gallon from craigslist to have in case I can get these Apistos to spawn (love them, they look like they're pairing up).  I am excited to start a new tank, but really want to find a better substrate.  The Flourite kicks up so much debris when moving plants, and it leaves a film on everything.  I also have haven't had success with anything that sends out runners.

I scrape algae from the glass but let it grow on the back and right wall cuz it's starting to look nice.

Edited October 23, 2020 by WeehawkenFish

[Jessica.]

@WeehawkenFish Looks great! Sounds like you're on the right track, and you've got some plants that are doing well for ya. I also struggle with val. I have found that it takes val months, literally 3+ months, to adapt to my water or lights or psychic vibrations.. whatever it is. Val will sit and do nothing but slowly melt on me for months when I get new stock, then it takes off. The catch is one it starts growing (like it finally adjusted to my water), it goes crazy. I trade it in by the bagful now to my LFS for food, but it took over a year for it to start going. 

I think you're on the right track and I don't want to throw you off, because what works for me may not for you, and everyone develops their own ways of doing things. But, taken with a grain of salt, if that were my tank here is what I'd do:

1. Manually scrub and scrape off as much algae as you can, then do a water change. Try to gentle rub it off plants & scrub the glass. The immediately do a water change, while all the algae you just scrubbed off is floating around making the tank look cloudy. I usually do 50%, but if 30% works for you do that. You're trying to get as much algae out of the tank as possible. 
2. Light on for 6 hours for the next two weeks. Then, slowly work up to 8 hours by adding 1/2 hour per week over 4 weeks. This is to slow algae growth. If you notice algae when you go back to 8 hours, dial it back. I run lights for 7 - 8 hours on most of my tanks. 
3. Check nitrates regularly (1-2x per week, or before dosing ferts), and try to keep the easy green dosed so that your nitrates say around 20ppm. Lack of nutrients can cause plants to stop growing, which allows algae to take over. 
4. If your stocking will allow it, buy some amano shrimp or oto cats. Amano shrimp are wonderful algae eaters. Check out this experiment tropica did, showing a tank with amanos vs a tank without. 

Algae control - Tropica Aquarium Plants

TROPICA.COM

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The right aquarium - The right plants - The right fish

 

1 hour ago, WeehawkenFish said:

The crypt next to it (in front of the wood)  is new, so it's currently melting.  And in the far right there is crypt lucens that has been there for months and simply doesn't do anything.

Crypts can take a while to get going, as it sound like you know. They also don't like being moved, sometimes. Maybe your lucens will bounce back soon. That is one of the more difficult crypts. 

 

1 hour ago, WeehawkenFish said:

I just got this Fluval 3.0 this week.  Up until now I was using a Finnex Planted 24/7.  I have put the fluval on an 8 hours/day schedule, but it had been on a 10 hour/day schedule up until now.

10 hours a day is probably the biggest contributing factor to your algae growth. I bet you're going to see loads of success by cutting back the light for a little while. 

[WeehawkenFish]

@Jessica.you've been very helpful, thank you.  I bought 3 otos today.  Cory has a video on them and said they are very good at eating algae specifically off of plants.  I'll also dial back the light as you recommended, thanks again.