German Blue Ram breeding. Help needed

[Hiếu Lê]

Hello everyone, this is my first post on this forum and I need help sexing a pair of GBR and seeing if they are likely to pair off + what to do next

ok let's get started, I have no idea if the one below is a female or not, "she" has all the characteristics of a female, rounded fin and plumber body and what not, but because she is a balloon ram, I think that is why, she has no black spot or pink belly that I can use to tell for sure.

Also, he has been chasing her around a bit like he will lunge at her a bit then stop. It is like he is just getting her off the spot she is on and not continuing the chase. So with that in mind, is it likely that will pair off? should I add more GBR?

here is a picture of her

here is a picture of the male

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Edited June 10, 2022 by Hiếu Lê

[Fish Folk]

Hard tell. Some males will go pale like that to show they are non-dominant.

Can you upload a video link via YouTube? That’s sometimes more reliable.

I’ve never kept or bred the balloon variety before.

Here are a few things I look for when sexing Rams:

(1) A mature female will often develop a pinkish colored abdomen. It is nowhere near as pronounced as a Kribensis, but somewhat similar.

(2) Males, on the whole, grow larger than females. Their foreheads tend get darker, their front few dorsal rays extend longer, and their ventral fins are longer.

(3) Where a side spot is visible (traditional color morph), females will develop a few “jeweled” scales _inside_ the spot. Males will not, leaving their spot totally black. On subdominant males, and some females, the spot will appear blue rather than black.

(4) On females, there is a particular jeweled scale pattern that emerges at the base of the dorsal right in front underneath the first few dorsal fin rays. (It looks like the roots of hair being highlighted)

(5) Females may display a slightly rounder abdomen as roe develops.

(6) In terms of behavior, males are generally more front-and-center in a tank, staking out their area.

 

[Hiếu Lê]

On 6/10/2022 at 6:08 PM, Fish Folk said:

Hard tell. Some males will go pale like that to show they are non-dominant.

Can you upload a video link via YouTube? That’s sometimes more reliable.

I’ve never kept or bred the balloon variety before.

Here are a few things I look for when sexing Rams:

(1) A mature female will often develop a pinkish colored abdomen. It is nowhere near as pronounced as a Kribensis, but somewhat similar.

(2) Males, on the whole, grow larger than females. Their foreheads tend get darker, their front few dorsal rays extend longer, and their ventral fins are longer.

(3) Where a side spot is visible (traditional color morph), females will develop a few “jeweled” scales _inside_ the spot. Males will not, leaving their spot totally black. On subdominant males, and some females, the spot will appear blue rather than black.

(4) On females, there is a particular jeweled scale pattern that emerges at the base of the dorsal right in front underneath the first few dorsal fin rays. (It looks like the roots of hair being highlighted)

(5) Females may display a slightly rounder abdomen as roe develops.

(6) In terms of behavior, males are generally more front-and-center in a tank, staking out their area.

 

Thanks Fish Folk, here is a couple of video of "her", not of the best quality but it is really hard to get the fish to stay still. So far, they are not hostile to each other except for the that mock charge thing I mentioned

[Fish Folk]

@Hiếu Lê that's really tricky to tell. I hate to admit it, but I just cannot be sure. It may be that you have two males. I'd like to watch a few videos of the other one too. If you can make your videos last 60 seconds or longer, that's most helpful.

Here are a few photos of GBRs I raised up in my water this past year.

(1) Male...

(2) Female...

(3) L-R: Female, Male, Female...

(4-5) Male (black spot turned blue)...

 

Here is a video we made awhile ago identifying female GBRs in a colony breeding setup...

 

[Hiếu Lê]

yeah, it may be that for now. the fish is missing the biggest tell, which is the pink belly and the black spot on her body. The consolation prize is that they are not trying to kill each other and I do see them in somewhat close proximity so who knows for now. I will try to make some video in the morning, nice rams btw, it is impossible to find normal ram where I am from, it is all balloon rams in the shop over here.

Edited June 10, 2022 by Hiếu Lê

[Hiếu Lê]

On 6/10/2022 at 8:05 PM, Fish Folk said:

@Hiếu Lê that's really tricky to tell. I hate to admit it, but I just cannot be sure. It may be that you have two males. I'd like to watch a few videos of the other one too. If you can make your videos last 60 seconds or longer, that's most helpful.

hey man, got some more video for you

 

Edited June 11, 2022 by Hiếu Lê

[Fish Folk]

Very nice footage. But I hate to tell you . . . I'm honestly still stumbling over this one.

My first instinct is that you've got two males, one dominant, and the other subdominant.

But it may be that the subdominant is a female.

On the other hand, with these long-finned balloon varieties, it is so easy to get things all wrong. There are several tell-tale signs on the one with longer fins and black spot that could indicate IT is a female: the jeweled scales inside the edge of the black dot . . .  the bright jeweled highlights at the base of the 2nd dorsal fin ray . . .

Normally, an extended front dorsal fin rays indicates male; however, I've had  both males and females grow their dorsal rays long. The key is in comparison. Males are always longer.

Here's a pair my son raised a few years ago that shows that. The key distinguishing quality here is the purple / pink clearly visible on the female abdomen. I am not really seeing that on either of yours yet. Now, the lighter / subdominant one may be a color morph cross, rendering some of the typical colorations absent.

 

Edited June 11, 2022 by Fish Folk

[Hiếu Lê]

That is true my friend. All I know about sexing German Blue Ram is from Dean of Aquarium Co-op, aka the male are suppose to have pointed anal fins, extended fin rays and the female short stubby anal fin along with the black spots thing and the pink belly.

I do suspect that the "female" is of the electric blue color morph hence why we are not seeing the pink belly. I did try my best to pick them out from what I know.

So should I try to pick more female to add in there?, I was considering adding like another male + 2 female if I can pick them out, or should I leave them be, honestly they are pretty peaceful with one another. I got a 125 gallon with a 13 gallon sum so about 134-135 gallon of water with about 19 corys, 12 platies, 10 mollies, 4 dwarf gouramis, 4 SAE and 8 Hillstream loaches so I think I can add more stocking.

Btw, that is the color the "female" came home with. Just in my opinion, it may not be a subdominant male since the store has several males like the male I showed you.

On 6/11/2022 at 3:20 PM, Fish Folk said:

Here's a pair my son raised a few years ago that shows that. The key distinguishing quality here is the purple / pink clearly visible on the female abdomen. I am not really seeing that on either of yours yet. Now, the lighter / subdominant one may be a color morph cross, rendering some of the typical colorations absent.

What a pair of beauties, I honestly like the regular GBR than these balloons ones. Haizz but they are all I can find around this part of the world

[Fish Folk]

If your goal is to end up with a breeding pair, then maybe you should buy a few more. I typically buy 6-7 fish to get pairs. Good luck to you!

[Hiếu Lê]

On 6/11/2022 at 7:59 PM, Fish Folk said:

If your goal is to end up with a breeding pair, then maybe you should buy a few more. I typically buy 6-7 fish to get pairs. Good luck to you!

Alright, thank you