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Anjum
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I have two tanks I need help figuring out what to do with. I have so many interests but I'm indecisive on which direction to go.

One is a 10 gal bowfront that's been running for about 14 months. I did move it & change filtration a couple months ago, so that disrupted it's stability a bit, but it's doing ok. A couple weeks ago, I moved the fish & snail that were in there to a larger tank. So it's sitting like this now, lots of plants & algae, but no animals. It sits on my kitchen table, so is in a fairly active location (important to note as the Harlequins I had in there did NOT like the increased activity).

The 2nd tank is a brand new 20 gal long that is at my work. Whatever goes into this tank has to be hardy enough to be left alone on the weekends.

I have 3 male guppies that are about 18 months old in a 5 gal tank that I had intended to move to the 20 long. But now I'm considering putting them in the 10 gal bowfront. I don't think they'd mind the activity & my husband likes the kitchen table tank & he likes the guppies. If he's happy w/ one of my tanks, he's less inclined to bother me about the rest 🤣

BUT, I really really really want to do shrimp. Blue neocaradinas to be exact. I planned on doing a shrimp & snail tank only so I can get max breeding out of the shrimp & populate the rest of my tanks with them. And since the 10 gal is now empty & my longest running tank, I figured that was the best bet for shrimp. The only thing I'm unsure about is that I don't have a proper lid for that tank. I keep the water level lower, as shown in the pic. And I haven't even been using that lid lately so I can get max light into the tank.

Once I move the guppies, I'll have a 5 gal tank available too. I didn't necessarily plan on doing anything with it, maybe just keeping it as another plant nursery tank. But it's available. It's been going about 3 months now.

I'm also super interested in getting a batch of N-class Endler's. But I would want them for breeding, so they couldn't be with the guppies & I'm not sure if they'd be ok being left on the weekends once they had fry.

I have a ton of other interests, so if these ideas don't work for these setups, I can explore those. These are just my top 2 right now.

Looking forward to any & all insights & advice!

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Well, there are so many possibilities.

If you love the Endlers, I think you could breed them in the 20 gal long and leave it alone on the weekends. Just plant it up really nicely with lots of plants for fry can find shelter and micro life can multiply for newborns. Do not be afraid of algae. Set it where it can get a touch of sunlight if possible (optional).

I keep a 29 gal. NANF (North American Native Fish) aquarium at my office at work. I keep three species: Notropis chrosomus (Rainbow Shiners 14x), Etheostoma caeruleum (Rainbow Darters 4x) and Enneacanthus obesus (Banded Sunfish 2x). No heater. They do not typically eat over the weekends. Here are a few photos...

(Here is one from when we used to keep Florida Flagfish instead of Banded Sunfish)

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Here are the Rainbow Shiners all "fired-up" in spawning colors...

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Here is one of the Banded Sunfish lurking in the background...

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Here's a look at the whole tank, Shiners in spawning colors. Plants are mostly Valisneria, a Melon Sword, and some Bronze Crypt...

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Here the Shiners are spawning with the Banded Sunfish hanging out in the middle...

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Shiners here in normal colorations...

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I can relate with the rasboras... I recently switched to espeis in my office tank and while I love the pop of color I've noticed their agitation whenever someone stands too close to my desk. Previously I had endlers in that space and they were great, but I never got them to breed. (I figure I either got bad stock, or I was doing something food/water-wise that they didn't like.) Before that I had white cloud minnows, which were my personal favorite but people couldn't see them.

Next time I'll probably try either longfin or gold white clouds, they've been my least-maintenance fish and great bang for the buck. I think I've read that they're safe with neocaridina, but I haven't tried yet. (And I'll be the first to admit they don't hold a candle to the beauty of Fish Folk's suggestions!)

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@Fish Folk dang those fish are amazing in breeding colors! And still interesting even in non-breeding mode. Man, my fish wish list keeps getting longer. 

Unfortunately, the work tank will not get any natural light. All my home tanks do though (we have a lot of windows, it's hard not to). And I don't think I'd want to do the breeding project there; I'd rather interact with it at home. Otherwise that would make perfect sense wouldn't it? See my indecisiveness? 😂

@drewzero1 now white clouds might be an option for the work tank. They're on my (very long) list & there's no one else who would need to see them. And I considered making that one a no-heater tank. 🤔 Bonus points if they breed & I can use them in outdoor set ups at home. 

 

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I should add that if I found some local n-class endlers again I would jump at the chance to give them another try. They were probably the most interesting to watch, behavior-wise. There's something special about watching a bunch of livebearers wiggling around and curiously picking at things around the tank.

My white clouds bred in my 10 gallon last summer with very little intervention. Some fry have survived, but they haven't grown like I'd hoped. I'm hoping they do it again this summer so I can pay more attention to them and help them thrive.

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On 6/9/2022 at 8:26 PM, drewzero1 said:

 They were probably the most interesting to watch, behavior-wise. There's something special about watching a bunch of livebearers wiggling around and curiously picking at things around the tank.

Yes! I enjoy the guppy antics & when I learned about Endlers, I was sold. I will have them 😅 someday.. 

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On 6/9/2022 at 4:08 PM, Anjum said:

One is a 10 gal bowfront that's been running for about 14 months. I did move it & change filtration a couple months ago, so that disrupted it's stability a bit, but it's doing ok. A couple weeks ago, I moved the fish & snail that were in there to a larger tank. So it's sitting like this now, lots of plants & algae, but no animals. It sits on my kitchen table, so is in a fairly active location (important to note as the Harlequins I had in there did NOT like the increased activity).

The 2nd tank is a brand new 20 gal long that is at my work. Whatever goes into this tank has to be hardy enough to be left alone on the weekends.

I have 3 male guppies that are about 18 months old in a 5 gal tank that I had intended to move to the 20 long. But now I'm considering putting them in the 10 gal bowfront. I don't think they'd mind the activity & my husband likes the kitchen table tank & he likes the guppies. If he's happy w/ one of my tanks, he's less inclined to bother me about the rest 🤣

BUT, I really really really want to do shrimp. Blue neocaradinas to be exact. I planned on doing a shrimp & snail tank only so I can get max breeding out of the shrimp & populate the rest of my tanks with them. And since the 10 gal is now empty & my longest running tank, I figured that was the best bet for shrimp. The only thing I'm unsure about is that I don't have a proper lid for that tank. I keep the water level lower, as shown in the pic. And I haven't even been using that lid lately so I can get max light into the tank.

Tank 1 (10G Bow): Empty, planted, high traffic area
Tank 2 (20L): Empty, planted?, work
Tank 3 (5G Bow): Guppies, planted

I think the issues with the table tank might be limited to vibration as well as the shadows.  A lot of times it's hard on fish for the noise and the vibration of the doors or floor or whatever it is.  I hate digging in the stand to get something because it always bothers the fish so much.

You mentioned wanting to have an active tank in the main area.  I would almost recommend bringing the 20L home and moving the 10G bow to work and then have corydoras with whatever other fish you wish to have. Endlers, etc.  I think Corys are probably one of the most universally enjoyed active fish in the hobby.

5G bow I think you can do well with your shrimp in there that you want to have.  As long as it's stable, has the right parameters, it should be good for them.  Smaller capacity just means you might experience some issues with parameter swings.

The guppies at work I don't like.  The only reason for this is because you're going to have a lot over time.  It'll be a "fun tank" but I would just hope there is a plan for taking fish home or to a shop to sell or something.  I actually would think it makes more sense to have the shrimp at work.  You can easily take them home as you need to and they are a much less demanding in terms of care, easier to care for and would do well with weekends off so to speak.

 

On 6/9/2022 at 8:00 PM, drewzero1 said:

Next time I'll probably try either longfin or gold white clouds, they've been my least-maintenance fish and great bang for the buck. I think I've read that they're safe with neocaridina, but I haven't tried yet.

I would say they are.  My MM never left the top inch of the water surface.

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@nabokovfan87 thanks for all the input! The 3 guppies I have are all male. They're going to live out their life & then I won't be having guppies anymore. So if I get Endlers in the mean time, they'll have to be separate. I may just have to wait on Endlers or shrimp or both if I can't provide the right habitat rn. 

You're right about the kitchen table tank; whenever someone would use the table & it would agitate the tank, the rasboras would jump. I don't think the guppies would care though. And Cory's are also on my (very long) list, so they're definitely a candidate for the 10 or 20. 

My concern about shrimp in the table tank (10 G bow) is that it doesn't have a tight fitting lid. 

The 20L has to stay at work because it fits that piece of furniture perfectly & that piece has to stay at work. 

The 5G is a regular rectangular tank, and it has a decent hood/lid. I had kinda decided I should go bigger if I want to set myself up for success. But I'll keep that as a candidate. 

I know it sounds like I'm just shooting down ideas but you guys really are helping me figure out what I want out of these tanks & what I want to put in. 

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On 6/9/2022 at 9:27 PM, Anjum said:

@nabokovfan87 thanks for all the input! The 3 guppies I have are all male. They're going to live out their life & then I won't be having guppies anymore. So if I get Endlers in the mean time, they'll have to be separate. I may just have to wait on Endlers or shrimp or both if I can't provide the right habitat rn. 

You're right about the kitchen table tank; whenever someone would use the table & it would agitate the tank, the rasboras would jump. I don't think the guppies would care though. And Cory's are also on my (very long) list, so they're definitely a candidate for the 10 or 20. 

My concern about shrimp in the table tank (10 G bow) is that it doesn't have a tight fitting lid. 

The 20L has to stay at work because it fits that piece of furniture perfectly & that piece has to stay at work. 

The 5G is a regular rectangular tank, and it has a decent hood/lid. I had kinda decided I should go bigger if I want to set myself up for success. But I'll keep that as a candidate. 

I know it sounds like I'm just shooting down ideas but you guys really are helping me figure out what I want out of these tanks & what I want to put in. 


No hard feelings at all 😂 ! That's the idea is to talk it through.

A 29G has the same footprint as a 20L.  You might have to get a second 20L/29G to replace the 10G without a lid? (joking, but just throwing that out there)

You could make a lid, so that you don't have the issue. I promise you it's easy and probably a fun project for those around you to help out.  I'd recommend lexan as your material of choice.

The place where the tank is now in the dining area, is it possible to move it somewhere so it doesn't get moved around when people sit?  I don't think anything in the tank will be "happy" there.  Shrimp definitely don't care as much as the fish do.  Their lateral lines and such make them very sensitive to that.

https://www.petmd.com/fish/care/how-fish-sense-world-around-them
https://acoustical-consultants.com/built-environment/rail-noise-and-vibration-impact-on-aquarium-sea-life/

The second link is an interesting deep dive into the effects on a larger scale.  Some interesting research.

OK so.... Guppy tank seems fine, and like a good choice. You definitely have room for more in there. Whatever it is.  I won't say overstock the tank or anything like that but you could add something like Amanos to make life a bit easier on maintenance.  For the kitchen tank, I think it fits with shrimp, and to answer your concern, yes they can be extremely interesting creatures.

So then you have your 5G bow and I would honestly just get a decent light for it and turn it into a nature spot.  I don't think it *needs* fish necessarily, but if you did want to add something to it, I would think very, very small fish would be the only option apart from shrimp.

The bigger thing for me that you're slightly going up against too is just whatever the scape is going to be.  Shrimp generally want some wood in the tank to graze on as well as the plants.  Hardscape helps. Guppies will be very tolerant to a lot. You could do low demand like anubias, or something a bit more elegant like micro sword, vallisnaria, etc. if that tank has a light on it.

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On 6/9/2022 at 5:08 PM, Anjum said:

I'm also super interested in getting a batch of N-class Endler's. But I would want them for breeding, so they couldn't be with the guppies & I'm not sure if they'd be ok being left on the weekends once they had fry.

As long as you wait until the 20 gallon is well seasoned, and seed it with good snacks like blackworms, or scuds, or some other microfauna (which conveniently come on pretty much all plants except tissue culture) the endlers can go up to 2 weeks without being fed. They just need lots of plants for the fry to hide in, and duckweed is also an acceptable food source as far as endlers are concerned. They key is to have a well-seasoned aquarium that has evidence of microfauna (I include baby scuds as microfauna).

For your kitchen tank, you can make a lid with egg crate light diffuser. Either get fancy and put clear glass or polyvinyl on top, or polycarbonate or plexiglass. The egg crate does a great job holding more pothos in place. I'm currently playing with saran wrap over the egg crate, so I can play with my plants more easily. It's easy to use a few zip ties to creat a "hinge" to make it easier to feed fish/shrimp.

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On 6/9/2022 at 10:28 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

 😂You might have to get a second 20L/29G to replace the 10G without a lid? (joking, but just throwing that out there)

Oh, there are more tanks in my future, that's for sure 😂 I just have to be strategic about it... Next up will be my stepdaughter's tank (from whom I got the guppies). I believe it's a 10 or 15G. But we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. 

Thank you so much for the links as well! I'll be reading those a little later today. 

Thank you for the suggestions on making a tank lid @nabokovfan87, @Torrey as well. I'll look into that more. I particularly like the idea of the crate material & rooting cuttings through that. 

Not having any wood in the 10 was my other concern for shrimp. But to address my more immediate concern, are shrimp prone to escape? I was watching some videos last night to refresh my memory on shrimp care & some were in tanks w/out lids. But maybe that was just for display/video purposes? 

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On 6/10/2022 at 9:42 AM, Anjum said:

Not having any wood in the 10 was my other concern for shrimp. But to address my more immediate concern, are shrimp prone to escape? I was watching some videos last night to refresh my memory on shrimp care & some were in tanks w/out lids. But maybe that was just for display/video purposes? 

So. I have a tank, with a lid. There's an opening for a HoB and it is not a large opening at all in any way.

Sometimes you can find shrimp that climb into the HoB opening and sit in the water where it's fast. Especially if you lose power or partially lose flow, they want to get to a certain spot where there is flow.  They can climb cords and just in general, can be pretty sneaky. 

The craziest one I can tell you is when I saw a shrimp that was 4-5 rooms away, about 75-100 feet away and I woke up to find the poor guy on the tile floor in the kitchen.  Sometimes things happen like that. 

In general, the shrimp won't want to climb out, but it's always a risk.  I honestly would tell you not to be concerned if the tank is setup and it's not easy for them to climb out.  They are smart, they know they need water.

you can use plastic wrap as a lid as well.  that's always an option to cover the rear section of the tank.

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Ok thank you @nabokovfan87! That was my understanding as well. I'm concerned about that pothos hanging out the top of the tank being a shrimp superhighway out. I'd do something to make it a little harder for them to get out. Are Amanos similarly inclined to leave the water occasionally? 

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On 6/10/2022 at 9:58 AM, Anjum said:

Are Amanos similarly inclined to leave the water occasionally? 

At night they are active much moreso than during the day.  Let's say I walk into the room, the shadow might spook them or the light turning on or something.  Essentially, that's the only time you're really going to see them dart.  When they dart they can go out of the water or tank accidentally.  It might be a vibration that can cause it too, that's just me thinking out loud.  If there's a "bigger opening" it's easier for them to dart and fly out.

Amano's are bigger shrimp, compared to something like ghost shrimp and they live a lot longer too.  Potentially something like getting them younger, they will adapt to the tank a bit better and hide more, is my assumption.  Especially if there is a good scape for them, they will definitely tend to not want to dart or leave the tank.  Instead of going up, they might go down into a darker area where they feel safe.  It's also a good idea to not have stuff sticking out of the tank with shrimp just so they have less of a chance of that access to dart upward.

I understand the concern about the pathos, that makes a lot of sense.

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@nabokovfan87 thanks on the info on Amanos; personal experience is invaluable. I do plan to get Amanos as well, as they are the superior algae controllers.

I just read those articles you linked earlier. So interesting, all of it! Now I feel compelled to go on a deep dive into fish biology. I never even heard of a Lateral Line Organ. Fascinating stuff!

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On 6/10/2022 at 3:06 PM, Anjum said:

I just read those articles you linked earlier. So interesting, all of it! Now I feel compelled to go on a deep dive into fish biology. I never even heard of a Lateral Line Organ. Fascinating stuff!

Yeah.... as I was very young and in awe of sharks and everything they could do.  Mythical creatures to me in a sense, but I totally agree!  Glad to be of help 🙂

Reef Shark Tonic Immobility | Zombie Sharks on Make a GIF

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On 6/10/2022 at 10:42 AM, Anjum said:

Oh, there are more tanks in my future, that's for sure 😂 I just have to be strategic about it... Next up will be my stepdaughter's tank (from whom I got the guppies). I believe it's a 10 or 15G. But we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. 

Thank you so much for the links as well! I'll be reading those a little later today. 

Thank you for the suggestions on making a tank lid @nabokovfan87, @Torrey as well. I'll look into that more. I particularly like the idea of the crate material & rooting cuttings through that. 

Not having any wood in the 10 was my other concern for shrimp. But to address my more immediate concern, are shrimp prone to escape? I was watching some videos last night to refresh my memory on shrimp care & some were in tanks w/out lids. But maybe that was just for display/video purposes? 

Anything will try to escape if all of their needs are not met. My nerite, Houdini, likes to go on walkabout. He's 10 years old, and now lives in a 4' paludarium with a locking reptile lid because he can open regular tank lids.

That being said, I've never seen evidence of endlers or neos escaping my outdoor porch pond. I currently have 3 Blue dream neos, and they go to the top of the tank because they enjoy filter feeding from the flow of the UGF. They will hang out in the plants they have deliberatly uprooted to float and play in. There is a 2" hole they could easily escape via, and have never tried. Big Mama looked out the whole once, then went back into the water. Now, she will wait at the hole for me to place the food in (especially green beans) but doesn't feel the need to look out.

My carbon rili colony were in a lidless tank, and I had nor problems... meanwhile I had some ghost shrimp that were little escape artists! They got out of what I thought was a sealed tank!

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Thanks for the input @Torrey!  Truly appreciate it. 

I think my plan for now (but ever evolving) is this:

Wait on shrimp for now, until I have a better tank or fashion a better lid for the bowfront. Since I'll be a new shrimp-keeper, and will undoubtedly make mistakes, I just want to control as many variables as I can in the beginning. 

I'll put the guppies & the SAE with them in the 10G Bow & see how they do. If the kitchen table proves to be too much disturbance for them, I'll move them or the whole tank. 

For the 20L at work, I'm strongly considering a non-heated tank. Going down this path of considering all the things, has made me realize I want that tank to be relatively low maintenance. I don't want to worry about it when I'm away & I don't want it to take too much of my focus when I'm at work (I'm supposed to be working 😅). I haven't even got water in it yet, so I have time while it's cycling & all that to research species. The building on average stays about 66°F. In the heat of the summer, it'll warm up considerably in the late afternoon, but cools right back down when the sun sets. WCMM & reticulated hillstream loach are in the running, but I know there are a lot more to consider. 

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