Chick-in-of-TheSea journal

[nabokovfan87]

On 10/14/2022 at 3:44 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Have you tried the peroxide method?

Need to get some.  I have a spraybottle.  It hasn't done anything in the past.  I definitely didn't have the right technique, and so I am going to try again with excel or liquid carbon or peroxide.   Likely will end up being all 3.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 10/14/2022 at 3:21 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Need to get some.  I have a spraybottle.  It hasn't done anything in the past.  I definitely didn't have the right technique, and so I am going to try again with excel or liquid carbon or peroxide.   Likely will end up being all 3.

Do you think the worm treatments somehow caused the algae?

[nabokovfan87]

On 10/14/2022 at 5:29 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Do you think the worm treatments somehow caused the algae?

NOPE.... it's been going on almost 2 years of algae town now.

I went through the long spiel in my OP of the journal with the history of it all.  I've been working with Bentley for his one tank at a time thing trying like heck to figure out what the one thing is.  I've killed a good portion of some of the other algae.  In my 29G Pandas / Anubias tank it's pretty much gone.  In the main tank it's ridiculously stubborn and persistent.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

The 2 black neons with columnaris completed their treatment and I started the first water change last night to remove meds. The dye in the Jungle Fungus fizz tabs was so dark I could hardly see them. But each day when I swirled a test strip they both came up to it. They are also eating good.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Well.. 1 neon looks healed. The other still looks sick. Could not get pic of the sick one due to the green from the meds. Also putting the light on stressed him out a lot. I removed the healthy-looking one and placed him in the snail tank for observation. This ain’t my first rodeo with columnaris, and I know they can regress, so let’s say he’s in the recovery unit.

I would have liked them to stay together but this guy was picking on sick fella, and this guy also doesn’t need to go through a second course of meds. 

 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Here’s the little guy in the recovery unit. Both he and the guy still in quarantine ate well today. Bloodworms were on the menu.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Plants are looking nice! Check out the Aponogeton Crispus!

Also here’s a shot at sundown. Everybody seems to have formed a school at midlevel and they are just hovering there, getting ready for bed.

Edited October 18, 2022 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Got a night dive booked for end of month. Woohoo!  Usually I do saltwater night dives but this is a freshwater one. This one is closer to home which works better for my schedule right now. Still, should be epic.  Night dives always are. 🙂 There are a lot of creatures that are out and about at night that nobody sees during the day. It’s fun to jump into pitch black water with nothing but a dive light. and a glow stick tied to the tank valve.

Shooting for some saltwater boat dives for Nov & Dec.

Edited October 18, 2022 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Guppysnail]

On 10/18/2022 at 2:28 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Got a night dive booked for end of month. Woohoo!  Usually I do saltwater night dives but this is a freshwater one. This one is closer to home which works better for my schedule right now. Still, should be epic.  Night dives always are. 🙂 There are a lot of creatures that are out and about at night that nobody sees during the day. It’s fun to jump into pitch black water with nothing but a dive light. and a glow stick tied to the tank valve.

Shooting for some saltwater boat dives for Nov & Dec.

Hmm Florida =alligators and snakes. Hmmm sounds fun 😵‍💫 be careful 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 10/18/2022 at 3:24 PM, Guppysnail said:

Hmm Florida =alligators and snakes. Hmmm sounds fun 😵‍💫 be careful 

I can say I’ve been in the water with both (not at the same time). Sharks too.

The snakes stay on the surface. In all my dives I’ve only ever seen a water snake once. The gators don’t understand the bubbles so they don’t bother us. Nothing else under the water makes bubbles. In all my dives I’ve only ever seen 1 gator. I have 123 dives to date, fresh and salt. I see plenty of sharks though.

Edited October 18, 2022 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

We divers have a motto. If you see a shark, you don’t have to swim faster than the shark, you just have to swim faster than your buddy. 😉

[Katherine]

On 10/18/2022 at 3:17 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

We divers have a motto. If you see a shark, you don’t have to swim faster than the shark, you just have to swim faster than your buddy. 😉

Sounds like the hiker/camper motto about bears.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

So what I'd like to do next with the 10gal is have some shrimp.  A few things stop me from doing it.  First, the tank is a recovery unit for fish coming out of the quarantine tote.  Wasn't my plan but I've discovered if I go straight from tote to display with them I'll see symptoms I hadn't seen through the plastic, and then I have to net them back out.  So I observe them through glass in the recovery unit for a bit longer just to make sure they are healthy enough to go to display tank.

-Would shrimp be ok in a tank like this? (can they get diseases from the fish?)  @TeeJay @Guppysnail @nabokovfan87

Second, well - I've never kept shrimp.  At least not properly.  I think there's a fair amount of people that have had ghost shrimp in a display tank. That was me, like 2 decades ago 😳.  I actually don't know what happened to them because well, they were small and clear.  Just kinda vanished.  Maybe got eaten. I'm nervous now about shrimp because I feel like I failed those guys.

Here's what I know.  My pH is between 7 & 7.5.  So I'd need to get neocaridina shrimp because they are ok in that range.  Plus I'd need some dried botanicals to add the tank.  My temp is 78 in the tank.  I have a cave pot in there and several pieces of wood has hollow spots to hide in.  I also know to get one color because if you mix colors the little ones will all be brown.  I know they like snail food and vegetables and they need calcium.  What else might I need to know? Would I be fine to still do my weekly 25% water change or is that too much water to change at once w/ shrimp?  Also would hydra kill shrimp (I think @Guppysnail said she hasn't had a problem with that).  Quarantine process for shrimp?  (or is that not a thing) Shrimp diseases?  What do little baby shrimplets eat?

I will be setting up a 5g as the recovery unit next, but for right now I have one inpatient and another to join soon.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[TeeJay]

Well the neos are the right choice for starting shrimpy friends. Ph is good. The botanicals are not necessarily needed but a nice touch. I mean my add one almond leave or a couple alder or philo cones at a time. Then once they break down and are gone I'll add another. Adding one at a time as needed we help make sure you don't alder your pH drastically. I know @Guppysnail keeps all of her shrimp around that temp because she houses them with fish. If your going to make it shrimp and snail only your u won't have to worry about the heater. As for food I use a mix of Xtreme shrimpy sticks some shrimp food from a small company that @Guppysnail picked up for me. I can't remember the name of the top of my head. And repashy and make shrimp lollies. And a out twice a week I'll add a pinch of bacter ae. You won't have to really worry about the shrimp getting or getting diseases to and from the fish

[Guppysnail]

On 10/19/2022 at 10:25 AM, TeeJay said:

some shrimp food from a small company that @Guppysnail picked up for me.

Snowflake from Small World Aquatics on Band app. The owner Jen is super sweet. I got my dwarf cats and your botanicals from her as well as some live foods. 
Shrimp and fish do not transmit diseases to one another. The diseases that affect each do not affect the other just like snails. Shrimp are less sensitive and many deworming options are available for fish that can be used with shrimp but not snails. 
Snail waste is very beneficial to shrimp so I would keep a snail or two in with them but remove them when in use as a qt for fish in case you need meds that way the water on their shell won’t contaminate the tank you temporarily house them. 
HYDRA. Even in my tanks that are small live food only where my green hydra carpet things my shrimp still overpopulate. Occasionally you will see an adult jump back from a sting but still be ok. Making a dark cave for shrimplettes hides them. I’m sure a few babies get eaten by hydra but not enough. I still have to move and give away shrimp by the dozen. 
Hope that helps. Shrimp are fun. 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Thanks guys.  I have a friend (Goldie the baby mystery snail's new mom) I'm going to the arts festival with this weekend and she said she has extra almond leaves and that they are really big.  She has one betta she bought them for, oh and the axolotl, and wanted to know if I'd like any.  I can take some for the shrimp and I think I'd have everything I need.  I have some crab cuisine on hand and as we know there are always vegetables on the menu. 🙂 And I have 2 kinds of repashy, and Snello.

On 10/19/2022 at 10:59 AM, Guppysnail said:

but remove them when in use as a qt for fish in case you need meds

I medicate in the tote.  I've been using this tank for observation AFTER fish come out of the quarantine tote.  Since I had some fishies relapse when moving straight from QT tote to display tank, I started doing things this way.

 

On 10/19/2022 at 10:59 AM, Guppysnail said:

Making a dark cave for shrimplettes hides them

Little tiny terra cotta pots. $0.77/ea.  🙂 

On 10/19/2022 at 10:59 AM, Guppysnail said:

Snail waste is very beneficial to shrimp

Why? Is it a food source or is it beneficial for another reason?

Edited October 19, 2022 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Guppysnail]

On 10/19/2022 at 11:19 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Why? Is it a food source or is it beneficial for another reason?

Snail digestion is very poor. Waste comes out with food not entirely digested but broken down. The waste also grows the bacteria in the digestive tract of snails that is very beneficial to shrimp. My shrimp flock to my snail waste as it is being excreted. 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 10/19/2022 at 11:37 AM, Guppysnail said:

Snail digestion is very poor. Waste comes out with food not entirely digested but broken down. The waste also grows the bacteria in the digestive tract of snails that is very beneficial to shrimp. My shrimp flock to my snail waste as it is being excreted. 

🤢

Well, cool, less vacuuming substrate for Chick.

And do they eat the dead leaves of plants too?  (I mean live plants, not dried plants)

[TeeJay]

I made a cave out of slate for my shrimpletts...nice and dark. I really don't see the adults go around it

[Guppysnail]

On 10/19/2022 at 11:45 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

🤢

Well, cool, less vacuuming substrate for Chick.

And do they eat the dead leaves of plants too?  (I mean live plants, not dried plants)

Yes they eat decomposing leaves from plants. 

[TeeJay]

And lots of hornwort and Java moss

[nabokovfan87]

On 10/19/2022 at 6:39 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Second, well - I've never kept shrimp.  At least not properly.  I think there's a fair amount of people that have had ghost shrimp in a display tank. That was me, like 2 decades ago 😳.  I actually don't know what happened to them because well, they were small and clear.  Just kinda vanished.  Maybe got eaten. I'm nervous now about shrimp because I feel like I failed those guys.

That's unfortunately what happens with a lot of the ghost shrimp.  Even as a kid, young hobbyist, I can totally see someone seeing a molt and getting very dejected with the shrimp. 

I wouldn't be worried, especially if you're just talking about some amanos or some of the caridina species. All depends on what water is, which you mentioned a moment later that you're in the awesome world of neocaridina!  Beautiful shrimp.

If I was trying to do some sort of "this is how shrimp work" type of a list this is what I would point out:
-They like constants, not parameters that jump around.
-They are forgiving if things are constant, so be diligent with testing and with maintenance
-They are pigs, and no piece of food is too giant for them.  They literally will take food and you'll laugh and get upset, but that's just their nature.
-If you don't feed them big cookies of algae, then they will graze a ton.  Having a scape that benefits that behavior is great for them.  They can do fine in basically empty tanks as @tolstoy21 had just showed with their setup and a bazillion beautiful shrimp, but they absolutely love to have things to climb and swim through and on and around.... (which means you need a lit, and not big holes.  Try to get it to fit tight, especially when there is flow.
-Surfaces that shrimp like: Wood, ceramic, flat rocks, moss on any of those, as well as plants that are easy for them to graze on (larger, flat surfaces).  Something like PSO, yeah it has some flat leaves, but once they get to a certain size they can't be bothered.  Also, when they get their cookies, they kind of want a place like these mentioned to go and hide out in and eat it.
-Feed shrimp specific food ~2x a week or more for their overall health (something specifically for them with calcium and other minerals that fit your variety of shrimp).

sidenote:  Let's say you had a tank where you want to have an airstone, for me I go back to the gravel filter days and it's one on each side left / right in the back corners.  When I have shrimp or need the lid to fit tight, I'll push those in 2-3 inches and use very small cuts on the rear trim piece (or glass) and then try to make sure the lid can close in as many gaps where there are things leading the shrimp out.  Especially when new.... kind of a key step until they discover there isn't lakes around the house for them to explore from one place to the next.  Snails can do this too.... but they kind of dig the high humidity, lower water level, etc.  Shrimp will straight up go and use the HoB like a spa resort if there is an issue in the tank.

On 10/19/2022 at 6:39 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

So what I'd like to do next with the 10gal is have some shrimp.  A few things stop me from doing it.  First, the tank is a recovery unit for fish coming out of the quarantine tote.  Wasn't my plan but I've discovered if I go straight from tote to display with them I'll see symptoms I hadn't seen through the plastic, and then I have to net them back out.  So I observe them through glass in the recovery unit for a bit longer just to make sure they are healthy enough to go to display tank.

I can't say it would help, but this is sort of why I always force myself to suffer through the "treat the tank" mindset when something pops up.  I guess I don't trust myself enough to identify it and know that it's not going to be something hiding in the substrate or somewhere in the tank waiting to pounce on a weak fish right when it goes back in the tank.  Because you're consistently seeing the tank itself rebound back to illness, potentially that's a course to go or something to consider.  Even a dose of salt might be all you need.

On 10/19/2022 at 8:45 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Well, cool, less vacuuming substrate for Chick.

And do they eat the dead leaves of plants too?  (I mean live plants, not dried plants)

I wouldn't say less..... Given the tank has snails and shrimp, I would almost say more?  IDK.  I try so hard to keep the substrate clean and I got worms.  So there's that.

They can, but they can also totally ignore it.  If you're feeding them, they will probably ignore it and just go after things on the surfaces of those plants. Not necessarily the plant itself.

Edited October 19, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 10/19/2022 at 5:06 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

That's unfortunately what happens with a lot of the ghost shrimp.  Even as a kid, young hobbyist, I can totally see someone seeing a molt and getting very dejected with the shrimp. 

I wouldn't be worried, especially if you're just talking about some amanos or some of the caridina species. All depends on what water is, which you mentioned a moment later that you're in the awesome world of neocaridina!  Beautiful shrimp.

If I was trying to do some sort of "this is how shrimp work" type of a list this is what I would point out:
-They like constants, not parameters that jump around.
-They are forgiving if things are constant, so be diligent with testing and with maintenance
-They are pigs, and no piece of food is too giant for them.  They literally will take food and you'll laugh and get upset, but that's just their nature.
-If you don't feed them big cookies of algae, then they will graze a ton.  Having a scape that benefits that behavior is great for them.  They can do fine in basically empty tanks as @tolstoy21 had just showed with their setup and a bazillion beautiful shrimp, but they absolutely love to have things to climb and swim through and on and around.... (which means you need a lit, and not big holes.  Try to get it to fit tight, especially when there is flow.
-Surfaces that shrimp like: Wood, ceramic, flat rocks, moss on any of those, as well as plants that are easy for them to graze on (larger, flat surfaces).  Something like PSO, yeah it has some flat leaves, but once they get to a certain size they can't be bothered.  Also, when they get their cookies, they kind of want a place like these mentioned to go and hide out in and eat it.
-Feed shrimp specific food ~2x a week or more for their overall health (something specifically for them with calcium and other minerals that fit your variety of shrimp).

sidenote:  Let's say you had a tank where you want to have an airstone, for me I go back to the gravel filter days and it's one on each side left / right in the back corners.  When I have shrimp or need the lid to fit tight, I'll push those in 2-3 inches and use very small cuts on the rear trim piece (or glass) and then try to make sure the lid can close in as many gaps where there are things leading the shrimp out.  Especially when new.... kind of a key step until they discover there isn't lakes around the house for them to explore from one place to the next.  Snails can do this too.... but they kind of dig the high humidity, lower water level, etc.  Shrimp will straight up go and use the HoB like a spa resort if there is an issue in the tank.

I can't say it would help, but this is sort of why I always force myself to suffer through the "treat the tank" mindset when something pops up.  I guess I don't trust myself enough to identify it and know that it's not going to be something hiding in the substrate or somewhere in the tank waiting to pounce on a weak fish right when it goes back in the tank.  Because you're consistently seeing the tank itself rebound back to illness, potentially that's a course to go or something to consider.  Even a dose of salt might be all you need.

I wouldn't say less..... Given the tank has snails and shrimp, I would almost say more?  IDK.  I try so hard to keep the substrate clean and I got worms.  So there's that.

They can, but they can also totally ignore it.  If you're feeding them, they will probably ignore it and just go after things on the surfaces of those plants. Not necessarily the plant itself.

Shrimp:

Thanks so much! My tank checks all the boxes for shrimp. As a former baby snail growout tank with ceramic caves, wood, moss, and a flat rock, it’s well seasoned with constant parameters.

Disease:

This illness was in newly bought fish. 

In previous situations fish that had just been treated were added back too soon I guess, because if they appeared weak the other fish would bully them.

I hesitate to add salt to the display tank. There’s a fair number of snails in there now and I don’t know what salt level harms them.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Potential shrimp tank

c-shaped wood provides an alcove to hide in

big leaf plant:

moss:

flat rock (ok, well, a dish):

Actual flat rock @nabokovfan87 told me to add a while ago because only wood does not constitute hard scape 🙂 

it’s kinda under the piece of wood right now because I moved stuff around to substrate vac today.

Caves (not in tank currently, but I’ve got them!)

[nabokovfan87]

On 10/19/2022 at 3:06 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

This illness was in newly bought fish. 

In previous situations fish that had just been treated were added back too soon I guess, because if they appeared weak the other fish would bully them.

I hesitate to add salt to the display tank. There’s a fair number of snails in there now and I don’t know what salt level harms them.

Totally makes sense.  ORD, but yeah, I totally understand.  Maybe Guppysnail has some recommendations for how low of a salt dose some snails can take?  I would assume it isn't much or any salt.

I can totally tell you that the shrimp would gravitate towards these areas pretty much daily.  They would have an easier time cleaning things if it was trimmed / shorter for them, but stuff like the anubias roots hanging down, they sit there like monkeys in a jungle and go to town on them and they do a great job of removing the algae.  If you've ever seen a video of bamboo shrimp sitting right by the outlet of the hang on back with their fans out waving at the current.... that's what shrimp love.  To have a place to sit midwater, they can just do their thing. In other situations too they are like army ants and just march around following eachother trying to chase whoever has the biggest algae cookie 😂





I saw my coffeefolia today when I was cleaning the tank and it had a new leaf.  Made me feel so happy because the plant isn't rotted (knock on wood) and it's doing ok with everything right now.  I moved the scape around, decorated some things, and just enjoyed seeing the progress from where that plant started to now....  yours looks epic.  Very big and doing well in that tank, even though it doesn't feel like it!