FOR FUTURE PROJECT

[SC Fish]

i plan to get a 65 gallon (120 x 50 x 50) in a few years (after i get the 20 gallon) , but being the obsessed person i am, i am trying to decide what to put in now.

 

im thinking 4 or 5 fancy golfish?

 

but nowwww im thinking about a couple puffer fish, green spotted puffer? would two of these live HAPPILY theyre whole life in this size tank?

if not , what would? maybe another type of puffer?

 

 

[Fish Folk]

@mountaintoppufferkeeper might have a reliable answer for you.

Always good to plan ahead, do research, and ask people with experience.

Enjoy the journey though! I have forgotten how many species of fish we bred and raised fry from in a 20 gal.

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

I would say that unless you already have the 60+ gallon I wouldn’t do it. I don’t doubt your intentions but too many time in my 36 years in the hobby a buddy has said I’ll just grow them out in a X gallon and get my dream big tank but life gets in the way and the animal ends up adopted by someone else namely me over the years.

If you want to keep a single figure 8 or green spotted puffer in a brackish water setup you can but there is no such thing as a freshwater f8 or gs puffer. Fresh water you’d have other options with a group of 5 pea puffers in a very heavily planted 20 g tank. I tried red eye red spotted puffers in a 20 g but the males will only tolerate females so you have to be very specific about that - I now have 4 male RERT puffers spread all over my house. As @Fish Folkindicated on our forum @mountaintoppufferkeeperis a great resource. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/7/2022 at 11:54 AM, SC Fish said:

but nowwww im thinking about a couple puffer fish,

I can't find the videos just because of how everything is unlisted and youtube search doesn't work well but.... Dean and/or Corvus Oscen had a schoudenti puffer tank.  That's what I think is the only one that makes sense.  You're going to need a very specific scape, which is why I was trying to find the videos. 😕

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

On 6/7/2022 at 12:54 PM, SC Fish said:

i plan to get a 65 gallon (120 x 50 x 50) in a few years (after i get the 20 gallon) , but being the obsessed person i am, i am trying to decide what to put in now.

 

im thinking 4 or 5 fancy golfish?

 

but nowwww im thinking about a couple puffer fish, green spotted puffer? would two of these live HAPPILY theyre whole life in this size tank?

if not , what would? maybe another type of puffer?

 

 

Thanks @Fish Folk and @Beardedbillygoat1975. I do have a few puffer species 😁. Sorry for the delay it was 4 hairy puffer arrival day and i had to shuffle some tanks around to get everyone where i wanted them. It got a bit more involved thsn i planned but everyone is pretty happy. 

@SC Fish If you are doing just a puffer/puffers in a tank i have yet to find a species that wont work as a trio or colony. I have petsonally never had a successful puffer pair. Pairs generally result in one really tough puffer after the dust settled. I would be looking at puffers you enjoy and who are less than 6" as adults could potentially work in a 20 gallon tank.

In a 20 gallon, preferably a 20 long, Id look at 6 pea puffers and plants. Aquarium coop live fish category has a link for a store who both carries pea puffers nornally and does a coop discount. 

Solo puffer ideas in a 20 gallon:

I would look at a spotted congo (Tetraodon schoutedeni), or maybe a red eye species (Carinotetraodon salivator is the one im hunting for this fall) The ambush puffers are less fun solo and a 20. 

Tetraodon schoutedeni

After you get your 60 set up and cycled

I would consider a colony of puffers but full disclaimer im a pretty huge fan for puffer groups. Pao baileyi, Pao cf palustris, Tetraodon miurus, Tetraodon schoutedeni

Ive had a trio of hairy puffers for 4 years now they have been in a 50 gallon with plants and caves since 2019 or so. Here they are feedimg on krill with vitachem. They pretty much just do their thing and havent het injured eachother. I even moved the bottom one to another tank for a period when it seemed like a pair formed. Still no eggs. 

 

My maintainence up here for them is every 3 days 75 earthworms fed, as available cull fish, snails, crayfish, cherry shrimp.

I figured id add a few more wild caught hairys into my fishroom to try and get some F1 fry in the next year or two. Today I recieved 4 more wild caught 3 month olds or so here are two deciding who of the two runs the yard. Its been a while since I had baby hairys but Im fairly certain this group with sort itself into a happy colony quickly. 

 

Ive had a trio of pao cf palustris (adult size 4"-5") who spawn basically non stop in a 75 gallon they are a more "spicey" puffer who enjoy good argument followed by food and apologies that normally result in 150 fry. (It started as 6) male with leopard pattern white belly females with yellowish belly. They swim a lot and eat like its their last meal from birth. I would try either a single or a trio in a 60. 

Being spicey same male dark green light spots. They get moving whem they want. 

Following the chase female light green male dark green 

 

The tetraodon miurus congo puffer I have 5 2.5" growing out. They all can change from light tan to dark brown black and have freckles.

One of mine has an orange base that replace light tan that one goes dark brown as well. Adults are reported to max our at 6" and a single could probably be dome in a 20 gallon. They like to wallow where only their eyes are visable and then they ambush a fish from below grabbing its belly. They are facing the current here. I use blasting media and they seem to not mind it. 

I feed from cultures of whiteworms, and  earthworms a majority of the time and occasionally feed from my cultures of dwarf crayfish, and cherry shrimp. They also eat krill with vitachem a few times a month, and snails when i find them in my other tanks. They remove from the shell vs crush through the shell. Of course whiteworms are great fun and everyone tales their turn and just eats those. In this gif there are blackworms in the substrate. I disperse them through the fishroom when i order them in. An excellent live food. 

And while it may be tempting when you see on in the store at 1.5" long,w I would not try a nile / fahaka in anything below a 90. They get real big real fast and mine was very flighty. 

 

[Fish Folk]

^this^

[Torrey]

I'll only add one thing for the dwarfs, that a lot of experienced fishkeepers don't know:

The Carinotetraodon travancoricus (sp) need to be kept in groups as they are technically a shoaling fish and depend on dynamics in the group to determine which fish will be male (typically first one to reach a certain size, but not always, will start producing a male hormone that will grow testes in that specific fish and inhibit male hormones from being excreted by any other puffer in the tank. They are very social creatures, and need their group.

[SC Fish]

hey just  reply , thank you all very much for your responses! just wanted to clear something up, the 20 gallon isnt for the fish im putting into the 65 gallon, thats for my current fish as an upgrade, @mountaintoppufferkeeper@nabokovfan87@Beardedbillygoat1975

 

 

 

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

On 6/8/2022 at 2:50 PM, SC Fish said:

hey just  reply , thank you all very much for your responses! just wanted to clear something up, the 20 gallon isnt for the fish im putting into the 65 gallon, thats for my current fish as an upgrade, @mountaintoppufferkeeper@nabokovfan87@Beardedbillygoat1975

 

 

 

Gotcha. Hopefully the range of respinses for options in one or the other or both helped a little. Did you decide on your 20 upgrade? 

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/7/2022 at 2:21 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I can't find the videos just because of how everything is unlisted and youtube search doesn't work well but.

 

[Odd Duck]

On 6/8/2022 at 1:25 AM, Torrey said:

I'll only add one thing for the dwarfs, that a lot of experienced fishkeepers don't know:

The Carinotetraodon travancoricus (sp) need to be kept in groups as they are technically a shoaling fish and depend on dynamics in the group to determine which fish will be male (typically first one to reach a certain size, but not always, will start producing a male hormone that will grow testes in that specific fish and inhibit male hormones from being excreted by any other puffer in the tank. They are very social creatures, and need their group.

I’m not sure where this got started but I don’t think it’s true.  Otherwise how would I have ended up with 7 of 9 pea puffer males in my first shoal attempt?  That’s not even counting my first w harem attempts.  The shoal attempt was in a 20 long, so not excessive space that would have let them each have their own territory.  I’ve read a few studies on pea puffers (everything I can find) and not one mentions this alleged sex change I’ve seen creeping into the hobby literature.  One even specifically talks primarily about accuracy in sexing them but doesn’t say anything about a gender change due to hormonal influence from a dominant male.  I think it’s solely because juveniles have female coloring until sexual maturity when there is enough testosterone produced to manifest the outward male traits we’re used to looking for to sex them. I haven’t done necropsies on a bunch of juveniles to prove it but 7 out of 9 juvies becoming males I consider to be very strong evidence against the chance of a dominant male being able to suppress testosterone production in others in the group to make them become females.  I can’t find a single scientific article that mentions they change sex and I’ve only started seeing this bit about the sex change recently and haven’t been able to find where it originated.

[Torrey]

On 6/15/2022 at 10:50 PM, Odd Duck said:

I’m not sure where this got started but I don’t think it’s true.  Otherwise how would I have ended up with 7 of 9 pea puffer males in my first shoal attempt?  That’s not even counting my first w harem attempts.  The shoal attempt was in a 20 long, so not excessive space that would have let them each have their own territory.  I’ve read a few studies on pea puffers (everything I can find) and not one mentions this alleged sex change I’ve seen creeping into the hobby literature.  One even specifically talks primarily about accuracy in sexing them but doesn’t say anything about a gender change due to hormonal influence from a dominant male.  I think it’s solely because juveniles have female coloring until sexual maturity when there is enough testosterone produced to manifest the outward male traits we’re used to looking for to sex them. I haven’t done necropsies on a bunch of juveniles to prove it but 7 out of 9 juvies becoming males I consider to be very strong evidence against the chance of a dominant male being able to suppress testosterone production in others in the group to make them become females.  I can’t find a single scientific article that mentions they change sex and I’ve only started seeing this bit about the sex change recently and haven’t been able to find where it originated.

Hmmm.... I need to find my sociology book (if it didn't burn in the fire) as that was where I first read it, talking about how many different species of animals *don't* actually have fixed genders. There was a lot of information that was "cutting edge" for a community college in 2012, and forced a couple of biology professors to stop teaching "XY" mythology. I do remember when I went down the rabbit hole, there was another species that mimics Carinotetraodon travancoricus, interchangeably in the hobby... and now my ASD rabbit hole tendencies have been reactivated. As soon as I find anything, I'll share!

[Torrey]

@Odd Duck, I'm going to have to see if I can get into the stacks at UNM. My current searches keep pulling up articles from India on global warming influencing more species to participate in protogyny, protandry, possible implications in commercial hatcheries in TDS species, and  articles on the banded houndsharks that imitated zebra sharks by producing offspring without mating.

It may be a combination of factors are in play, and someone read a single article and it went viral due to the "new" interest in gender bending. Looks like a good possibility Pearson got ahead of itself with the textbook, as I can't find any scientific articles (minus 2 out of India that I can't open due to paywall) that specifically list *any* species of pufferfish for sequential hermaphrodites. Thank you for the correction!

[Birbto]

On 6/7/2022 at 8:54 AM, SC Fish said:

i plan to get a 65 gallon (120 x 50 x 50) in a few years (after i get the 20 gallon) , but being the obsessed person i am, i am trying to decide what to put in now.

 

im thinking 4 or 5 fancy golfish?

 

but nowwww im thinking about a couple puffer fish, green spotted puffer? would two of these live HAPPILY theyre whole life in this size tank?

if not , what would? maybe another type of puffer?

 

 

You could do that, however I would recommend pea puffers instead because you don’t have to trim their beak and if you get 3(1 male 2 females) you probably would have room to put other fish in. Just be careful and do your research though. 

[AquaHobbyist123]

I've wanted pea puffers for quite awhile.