nabokovfan87 Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 (edited) Hey everyone, I have a dilemma, I'll send photos of the setup currently, but I am basically taking this as an opportunity to also run some tests. I have a tank without any access to power and I need it to run efficiently off of a battery backup for weeks-months. If there isn't a reliable solution for the problem, then I will likely have the tank in place waiting for construction to finish up. Currently: 1 sponge filter running off 2 D-Cell batteries. 1 sponge filter running off nano USB air pump connected to a 2000 mAh battery bankI can run one of these off a gang valve but it is not enough to run both sponges. If need be I can remove one. I am considering getting some of the higher output battery backup ACO air pumps, but I do have a few question and issues I need to understand fully. 1. How long will the battery bank last, even if I swap it every few days that is a potential solution which can potentially increase the battery life of bank? -->Essentially, run it down to 35%, charge it back up to 80%, rinse/repeat to increase cycle of the Lithium Ion batteries. 2. Part of the issue I am having is AC-->DC (Battery)-->AC conversion for the devices. If I have something like a UPS, you only have it operate for a few hours, not even 24, because of the battery being drained by spending so many resources converting the energy to different I/O options. With the battery bank, I don't think this is an issue, but I do need to confirm operation. (Input = USB, Output = USB) 2A. This brings into question the viability of the nano usb pump in comparison to the ACO air pump. The nano pump is designed to run off of low DC voltage for a very long time at low wattage. I assume there is some loss based on what I am already experiencing. What concerns me is that if I upgrade from something that uses 3.5w vs. 0.3w is this input loss negated or am I adding to the loss because the power is now converting from DC (battery bank) --> DC (pump battery) --> Output and requiring more current? The ACO pump is designed to run off that 5V input, which may dramatically drain the bank itself much easier because the circuit is a bit more complex. I can't find the resource, but I think Cory and others have mentioned the nano pump can last anywhere from 4-14 days depending on the battery you're using. I just don't really know what the threshold here is for the other pump and I don't really have any good barometer given the integrated battery complicating the circuit slightly. Thoughts? Edit: I found some wiring diagrams for the battery bank itself. It's purely DC-->DC and the only real issue is the resistor used to step up voltage, relating to the loss that provides the system in low power modes.https://www.electronicsforu.com/electronics-projects/power-bank-circuit Edited May 28, 2022 by nabokovfan87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasaltemelosguy Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 Hi, I think a scooter or wheelchair battery may be an option for you. A lead acid battery will chemically recharge itself within limits whereas a Lithium requires applied, cyclical recharging. I think you mentioned that the small pump is 0.3w and the large one is 3.5w? And both are 5v (USB)? That means the small pump requires 60mAh and the large pump requires 700mAh for full output. This calculator will tell you how much time a given battery will operate a device if you know the amperage the device draws (in this case 60ma and 700ma): Battery Life Calculator per mAh A decent sized, 6v scooter battery will have 20,000mAh to 200,000mAh in concert with the self-charging effects of being lead acid. These are very unlikely to lose enough charge for a load as light as these air pumps for days if not weeks. The only caveat being it's a little DIY in that these large batteries are 6.5v and you need about 5.1v so you must add a bridge rectifier to get a 1.4v voltage drop without loss. And yes, you're right, a resistor has the most loss of all methods and is best avoided. The DC-to-DC converters too use power to operate so conversion always incurs loss. A resistor may incur 50% wattage waste whereas a diode loses only milliwatts. These people have a huge selection of suitable batteries. Mighty Max I may have misunderstood exactly what you needed so forgive me if so but if this is a direction you take and if you need a schematic drawn, feel free to DM me as it's a very simple hookup. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabokovfan87 Posted May 28, 2022 Author Share Posted May 28, 2022 On 5/28/2022 at 8:00 AM, dasaltemelosguy said: I may have misunderstood exactly what you needed so forgive me if so but if this is a direction you take and if you need a schematic drawn, feel free to DM me as it's a very simple hookup. I get what you're saying. You would think that by now someone would have a simple 5v VCC output for a variety of methods. Something like the ecotech batteries is basically what you're talking about too, but it comes in a case. I don't have any idea what their hookups are, app support, versatility. Essentially it seems like this whole thing isn't really a viable option long term. I really appreciate your guidance and help. For reference on anyone who wants to have the data: d-cell battery "portable pump" = ~20 hours use time (batteries could be old, so I'm re-running) nano air pump on lithium Ion battery bank = 4-5 day run time at 20,000 mAh For the larger load, I would assume you're looking at 2.5-3.5 days, but I won't be able to complete that trial until I have one on hand to test. I'll post some final results when I have them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tihshho Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 Is it possible to relocate the inhabitants to somewhere else? Figure it would be easier to just relocate the tank near power rather than invest into a battery system that's for short term use. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabokovfan87 Posted May 28, 2022 Author Share Posted May 28, 2022 (edited) On 5/28/2022 at 1:33 PM, Tihshho said: Is it possible to relocate the inhabitants to somewhere else? Figure it would be easier to just relocate the tank near power rather than invest into a battery system that's for short term use. They are in a QT tank right now. they've been there for far too long. It was supposed to be in a 75G, which was "negated" because someone wanted to have a TV there. The other location with power was an issue because it was "in the way". With the house under heavy construction it's just been a challenge to try to find a place that works (floor issues) and then have it out of the way so it doesn't get bumped. The current location is underneath the stairwell, power is on the opposite wall (main entry into the house) which just isn't something where I can run a power cable in that way. I had to move the 10G off my dresser to my desk. It's not a perfect situation but they are now on a slightly more reliable surface. This tank in question is basically where they should be headed to. 10G--> 29G and it's just running empty right now until everything is set. More thank likely it'll end up in my room with my other tank, but it's supposed to be a community setup for others in the house to enjoy, with their fish. On the 1/2 wall behind the tank there is a chimney, but there is also a set of wall switches. My assumption is that it would be very easy to add an outlet in this wall. One of the reasons this spot was discussed as an option. Unfortunately, I can't get a clear answer, but obviously my priority was to have the fish in the larger tank asap, which is why the battery solution and sponge filters became an option. This is the spot opposite the tank currently, there is a little cubby, but it gets knocked nearly every time anyone walks by. It's a hallway essentially and they added spiral stairs. Also, the floor itself is very much warped badly where you see the glass shelving right now. It's right by the front door and having power mounted to the wall and all that just isn't what they want to walk into. The other spot we discussed is the sunken in living room (I'm pretty sure it used to be the driveway by how the floor is sloped). It might end up here, but there's some breaker issues I need resolved, all part of that construction unfortunately. The floor here also looks to have some water damage or something, warpage or just poor quality work on the 1/2 wall itself. Being next to the TV in that proximity, may or may not be an issue as well. This is the other main room. If you're viewing the photo, my original proposed location for everything was lefthand side. There's a brick wall there, again, no power, and there's this brick shelf I asked if they were going to have removed or leave, still no answer on that. No power though, so similar issue. The chimney itself you can see in the photo above, the "brick shelf" is supposed to be a pizza over but it's one of those weekend project looking things and I don't know at all if it was done correctly 😕 . But, the tv on the wall was supposed to be the actual place for the tank I had. The poster / section to the right of it is right in front of an 8' slider, which makes it not a great spot. It also has major floor issues. There is a small step down where you see those pain cans and what looks like the original backyard patio (massive slope for water drainage in about every direction possible). That's kind of the overview of it all and why this is remotely a setup that's happening. Hopefully the testing date is worth it for someone in their future use! Found this. It's essentially how to build out the idea mentioned by @dasaltemelosguy Edited May 28, 2022 by nabokovfan87 paint buckets clarification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabokovfan87 Posted May 28, 2022 Author Share Posted May 28, 2022 Sanity check: His is a 5200 mAh lasted for ~17 hours Very cool to see him try it so many times to test it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torrey Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 Our battery backup for power outages (to run DME) has the USB ports which ran pumps for our tanks for a week. I need to get into the closet, because I can't remember what kind it is, we bought it at Cabella's in their camping section. It also has an air hose for filling an air mattress or tires (but sucks the battery fast). Takes 24 hours of being plugged in to fully recharge. Might be worth the investment based on the combination of construction and floor warpage? Two would allow you to swap out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabokovfan87 Posted May 29, 2022 Author Share Posted May 29, 2022 On 5/28/2022 at 10:48 PM, Torrey said: Might be worth the investment based on the combination of construction and floor warpage? Two would allow you to swap out. Yeah we have something similar on hand (I asked to use it). Electrician should give us an answer Monday I think on whether or not power can be added. Because those things run on giant batteries it helps, but I really didn't know if the batteries were directly connected to the USB and just have the voltage stepped down or how it was setup. Usually 18v or something for the battery and need 5v ok USB. But the question I had was whether or not it would go from DC (battery) to AC (motherboard/power circuit) then to the I/O and be converted again back to DC out. If it does, there's a huge loss. The one we have is supposed to be for a car / emergency kit. It has a standard outlet out. But USB as well. I'll likely run it as a test as well just to see if I can find it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabokovfan87 Posted May 30, 2022 Author Share Posted May 30, 2022 On 5/28/2022 at 1:27 PM, nabokovfan87 said: For reference on anyone who wants to have the data: d-cell battery "portable pump" = ~20 hours use time (batteries could be old, so I'm re-running) nano air pump on lithium Ion battery bank = 4-5 day run time at 20,000 mAh For the larger load, I would assume you're looking at 2.5-3.5 days, but I won't be able to complete that trial until I have one on hand to test. Update on this: d-cell pumps: ~18-22 hours Nano pump on 20,000 mAh (first run): 3.5 days Larger load: TBD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Gumby Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 Not sure if it's practical for where your tank is located but I use one of these with a small solar panel off eBay in my shed. In hindsight I should have gone bigger on the battery but it does the job when I need to run a usb nano air pump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabokovfan87 Posted May 30, 2022 Author Share Posted May 30, 2022 On 5/30/2022 at 12:14 AM, Mr Gumby said: In hindsight I should have gone bigger on the battery but it does the job when I need to run a usb nano air pump That would be awesome. I'll find out tomorrow if I'm moving the tank or what not. I'm "excited" because I don't really care where it goes, it's going to mean new home for the fish! They got a deep clean on their tank today and I worked really hard to get stuff ready for em. I would absolutely love to run the little pumps off a "solar pump" type of setup. I honestly contemplated going down the street to tractor supply and getting a tub for them. Awesome idea, just doesn't work for this specific setup. It might for.... 6-8 hours out of the day though. The window nearby has partial direct sunlight, but it's also frosted. So I don't think it would fully charge the batt., especially if I am running the light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabokovfan87 Posted June 2, 2022 Author Share Posted June 2, 2022 the Pandas got out of their QT tank today and stretched their fins. Ultimately the solution was this...https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-Decora-15-Amp-Tamper-Resistant-Combo-Switch-and-Outlet-White-R62-T5625-0WS/202027001 I hooked up one air pump, tossed in the media from the old tank, coral from the old tank, and then I have two sponges in there to continue cycling the tank. I'm expecting there to be some cloudy water for a little while, but it's been running for ~a week already and I have whatever need be on hand to get through it. Thank you again to everyone for all the ideas and trying to work through this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyGenusCaps Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 Last summer @StevesFishTanks posted what I think is the ultimate DIY battery backup for a linear piston air pump, which I'll link to below. I suspect he might have some useful insights for your situation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabokovfan87 Posted July 13, 2022 Author Share Posted July 13, 2022 On 5/29/2022 at 11:41 PM, nabokovfan87 said: Update on this: d-cell pumps: ~18-22 hours Nano pump on 20,000 mAh (first run): 3.5 days Larger load: TBD Had to run the tank off of the larger, car style emergency jumpers. It was the HoB itself and not the airpump and it lasted well below 8 hours. So it does appear that the AC-->DC-->AC is causing some pretty severe losses on those as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabokovfan87 Posted July 28, 2022 Author Share Posted July 28, 2022 Pondguru just put out a video for this topic. Essentially, nano pumps, or battery backup airpumps that can hook up via USB. There is also some solar panels that work via USB. Fountain pumps that work via USB as well. There's a lot of options, but that seems to be a great way to handle it. Ultimately, I plan to have a USB battery backup which can be charged via solar panel as well as output to some sort of pump / airstone. As an "emergency kit" it seems to be pretty useful for the power outages and stuff we have here. Thanks again to everyone for all the help on this project. It's been fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modified lung Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 I've had ponds running on solar USB battery pumps in different configurations for years. My house has no outdoor power. 👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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