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My 10 Gallon Journal


A3M0N
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I never could get Val to do more than look like a fake plant for months then die. I added ugf filters now I cut it back weekly in almost all the tanks. 
The other thing I did different was to plant only the bottom of the roots. Making sure the bottom of the plant stay at least 1/16 inch off the floor 

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By the way I think your tank is looking fantastic!  

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On 11/19/2022 at 2:36 PM, Guppysnail said:

The other thing I did different was to plant only the bottom of the roots. Making sure the bottom of the plant stay at least 1/16 inch off the floor 

You know, after you mention this my one val that is doing really well did get pulled up a bit and only the roots are in the sand now. I was worried it wouldn't make it, but didn't want to disturb the roots and really hurt it. maybe I'll pull the other two I have left and let them float, or at least just sit on top of the sand see what happens. 

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First week of adjusting EI dosing to a specific 10-gallon amount didn't seem to change much. I manually removed a good bit of the algae and stirred up the substrate really good to get more dislodged and sucked out. It's mostly collecting on the substrate and along the base of the plants and hardscape. I mixed up a four-week supply, so I'll continue to clean it out really good each week as needed. If the fertilizer change doesn't start to clear up the problem I may dose with hydrogen peroxide again. I would do RR on the plants but its growing on hardscapes too, and I don't want to pull the plants because they're growing so well! 

Testing this week: 
GH: 120
KH: 80
pH: 6.5 
Nitrite: 0 
Nitrate: 40 

IMG20221126111430.jpg.8cf7ee1f1247591adb5f46f9811dc709.jpg

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Definitely stop the vacuuming. I might tap the surface in a few spots every once in a while. I would only deep vacuum on a restart.

Plant more, absolutely fill that tank with plants. 

Are you dosing gla's schedule?

I'm also thinking the substrate looks a bit too deep. How many inches?

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Thanks @Guppysnail

On 11/26/2022 at 7:29 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

Definitely stop the vacuuming.

My description of stirring up the substrate may have been exaggerating. I didn't dig down much at all, just enough to dislodge the algae to siphon it up. I usually just vacuum up uneaten food and other floaty stuff that settled on the bottom. But I'll definitely stop if I'm the problem! 

On 11/26/2022 at 7:29 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

Plant more, absolutely fill that tank with plants.

I plan to! I'm going to be trimming and replanting as the stems get almost to the surface. Several of them are just about there already! And a few of the s repens look like they're ready to be trimmed and spread along the bottom. 

On 11/26/2022 at 7:29 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

Are you dosing gla's schedule?

I was, but thought it may be contributing to the problem because it's a range from 10-20 gallons. So I used the calculator from Rotala Butterfly/Barr Report for 10 gallon specific amounts of NPK. I kept the macro mix at GLA's schedule because there's a lot of ingredients in there and didn't know how to scale it back correctly. I could have just gone with half, but macros don't encourage growth in the same way NPK does correct? 

On 11/26/2022 at 7:29 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

I'm also thinking the substrate looks a bit too deep. How many inches?

It's 2 inches in the back and tapers down to about 1-1.5 inches in the front. It's straight blasting sand from Tractor Supply, no dirt layer underneath. 

 

A couple other thoughts I've had. Is my DIY (yeast/sugar/gelatin) co2 system causing more harm than good? It seems pretty consistent to my eye, nothing scientific/measurement to back that up. But if it's not helping, I'm ok with pulling it out until I can "upgrade" to a baking soda/citric acid system. I don't have any plans to invest in a pressurized system. 

Do I need more light? Since the algae is growing at the bottom, away from the light, it just makes me think it's not reaching all the way down. The LED bulb I'm using now seems to be growing the plants well, just maybe I need to add another bulb for a bit more umpf? 

Thanks for the help y'all! This a great forum, with very patient and helpful members. 

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On 11/26/2022 at 7:45 PM, A3M0N said:

I was, but thought it may be contributing to the problem because it's a range from 10-20 gallons. So I used the calculator from Rotala

It's definitely a heavy handed dose and I would not use the schedule. 1 thing to consider, all things simplified, the reason you do 50% water changes is to reach a target dose. You can't have more than 2 times the weekly dose. So if you want to target 20ppm NO3, you dose 10ppm weekly. Also, ignore generated nutrients, always assume the tank is 0ppm. Finally, use correct gallons. That 10 gallon tank may have only 8 gallons in it.

On 11/26/2022 at 7:45 PM, A3M0N said:

I kept the macro mix at GLA's schedule because there's a lot of ingredients in there and didn't know how to scale it back correctly.

This is a hot dose also. I would target .4ppm Fe as proxy. We don't assume target doses with micros. It's always a weekly dose. Is it CSM+B? PH matters for the chelate.

On 11/26/2022 at 7:45 PM, A3M0N said:

Is my DIY (yeast/sugar/gelatin) co2 system causing more harm than good?

100%, sadly. But if it is fun, use it. But it's definitely an issue and just not sufficient to keep CO2 levels consistent.

On 11/26/2022 at 7:45 PM, A3M0N said:

Do I need more light?

Possibly, you want the light to be the limiting factor. 

Unlimited nutrients

Unlimited CO2 

Light sets the limit while the most demanding plant's needs are met.

Your specific plants shouldn't demand alot.  

 

Edited by Mmiller2001
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My target dose recommendation would be 

20ppm NO3 

8ppm PO4 

20ppm K 

.4ppm Fe as proxy

K can be raised much higher if you need to.

So divide those by 2 to get your weekly total, then divide the weekly total by the amount of days you want to dose. Macros can be dosed any way you want, but spread micros out over the week.

 

 

Edited by Mmiller2001
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Thank you @Mmiller2001

I've been trying to wrap my head around all your recommendations, I'm sure I'll have more questions as I understand more. 

I'm not changing anything this week since I've already started dosing My water change day is Friday, here is what I plan to update after this Friday:

Remove the DIY co2.
Cut back fertilizer even further using 8 gallons for my calculations rather than 10.  
Consider adding another bulb for lighting. If adding lumens is roughly acceptable, that would be 3000 lumens (300 lumens per gallon). 
Go easy on the vacuuming 

Ok, I'm not the best with math/numbers. Like, I'm kinda terrible at it. So, please help check me here. 

I'm dosing 30ml at a time, using 360ml of distilled water for each solution. 3x per week of macro/micro. This gives me 4 weeks per refill. 

Comparisons: 

Using Rotala Butterfly's calculator for 8 gallons: 
7.5ppm NO3 / 4.44 grams for the solution 
1.3ppm PO4 / 677 milligrams 
7.5ppm K / 6.07 grams 

Using your recommendations (dose to reach a target): 
10ppm NO3 / 5.93 grams for the solution 
4ppm PO4 / 2.08 grams 
10ppm K / 8.1 grams 
And 1.3 grams of the micro mix. 

I really hope all this makes sense! I'm writing this after working this evening and having written a paper for school. 

Edited by A3M0N
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On 11/27/2022 at 9:53 PM, A3M0N said:

Remove the DIY co2.

I would drop my recommended numbers by 3/4 to 2/3. Also, CO2 will now become the limiting factor. So if I discontinued CO2, I would immediately reduce fertilizer and light. Recommended EI dosing is for CO2 enriched systems. Tom Barr, the creator of Estimative index, states the system can be used in low energy tanks, just reduced.

I also use to make a solution but quickly realized that dry dosing the tank was just easier. So, my recommendation is to dry dose. This will allow you to make changes very easily. I tossed too many solutions out because weekly adjustments were always necessary.

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Got it, that makes sense.

So, you'd recommend this?
2.5ppm N / 123mg
1ppm P / 67mg
2.5ppm K / 169mg

And this is what I would add per week correct? So rather than the usual EI 3x per week, it would only be 1x per week? I can't see dividing those tiny amounts up. The calculator says the N and K are equal to 1/64 tsp, that is the smallest measuring spoon I have.  

I was dry dosing originally, but the fish were eating the dry material and I didn't think that was too good! 

I guess I really don't need co2, so no real reason to keep worrying about it. But are the baking soda/citric acid DIY systems more consistent than yeast/sugar? The kits have valve for adjustments and can be turned off at night. 

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I thought about what @Mmiller2001 said about the DIY co2: if it's fun, then keep using it. Well, it is fun! So, I cleaned the diffuser really good and mixed up a new batch of yeast/sugar/gelatin and got it installed. There was significantly less algae this week than my last water change, so maybe the reduction in fertilizer over the past two weeks has helped. I'll reduce the fertilizer to the 8-gallon suggestion next time. I'm also thinking about moving to a baking soda/citric acid co2 kit, they seem more stable as you can actually monitor the pressure, adjust the flow, and turn it off for the night. 

I trimmed and replanted four ludwigia that had reached the surface and a few leaves were already above water, and one s. repens that was putting out a bunch of roots. So, I have five more new plants! Yay! 

I figured I'd add a short overview video this time too. 

IMG20221203193222.jpg.1633555c88ba65e78f2f1a0339ae2aad.jpg

 

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I actually did a bunch of reading today and thought about you when I came across some discussions about DYI CO2. It confirmed its problems that I mentioned; basically they can't maintain the stability we need to rule out certain algae triggers. But, if I remember correctly, lowering light a bit more can help a good bit. Something to think about. And absolutely, if it's fun, do it. 

I'm committing a sin right now. I'm running my light for a 12 hour duration. Why, because it's cool and it's fun to try. It will probably fail, but when I offer light duration help, at least I actually tried it and have the experience. Right? 😆

Also, some of those new setups you mention are not to bad. The equipment is coming up in quality.

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@A3M0N I'm impressed your tank has progressed quite a bit and with the S. repens you should have a nice carpet going in no time. It is definitely my favorite carpeting plant, a lot easier than any of the others like Dwarf Hairgrass, Lilaeopsis, Monte Carlo, Glossostigma, Helanthium, or Marsilea. I've even got a few sprinkled in between the Crypts in my Amazon jungle tank.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Not really much going on this week, just trimmed and replanted several ludwigia stems. Some of the bacopa is getting taller!

I'm holding off on fertilizer this week, my nitrates were at 80 ppm, that seems pretty high even for EI. Is that too high? Could that be a cause of my algae? Which still isn't terrible, but just kinda there. I have seen some more staghorn algae hanging around. I'll see where the nitrates are this week, then restart with the much lower amount planned earlier. 

Testing this week: 
GH: 120
KH: 80
pH: 7.0 
Nitrite: 0 
Nitrate: 80 

IMG20221210214537.jpg.42e9cc6e7eaf03c10cd092c9886c09f5.jpg

 

Edited by A3M0N
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Finally made it to the pet store and got some more fish, now there are six of each neon tetras and harlequin rasboras. They are really shoaling together a lot more. I mean, I figured three more fish would equal more activity, but they are all really more active now. They also got their first taste of frozen brine shrimp, seeing as how not a trace is left, they must have liked it. 

The nitrates were down to 20 ppm, so I started back on the much lower fertilizer dose that was talked about earlier in the thread. I'll give it two weeks to see if the algae level either goes down or stays the same. If it stays or increases, I may treat it with some hydrogen peroxide, but I'll give it time first. 

I ordered a citric acid/baking soda DIY co2 kit for myself for Christmas, so that'll be a new adventure soon. My wife knew I wanted one, but I just ordered it to make it easier on her! 

Testing this week: 
GH: 120
KH: 80
pH: 7.0 
Nitrite: 0 
Nitrate: 20 

IMG20221216125401.jpg.193c47764e5841fe2f99cb84cf13e0ba.jpg

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On 11/26/2022 at 7:29 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

Definitely stop the vacuuming.

@Mmiller2001, I was going back through advice that has been offered and I just wanted to clarify some of it. By stop vacuuming, do you suggest only draining the water? Is it harmful to vacuum up stuff that as settled on the substrate, including algae that has accumulated? Or do you mean like don't stick the siphon down into the substrate? 

I assume that stirring up too much stuff will just cause more algae, is that correct? 

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On 12/19/2022 at 2:12 PM, A3M0N said:

@Mmiller2001, I was going back through advice that has been offered and I just wanted to clarify some of it. By stop vacuuming, do you suggest only draining the water? Is it harmful to vacuum up stuff that as settled on the substrate, including algae that has accumulated? Or do you mean like don't stick the siphon down into the substrate? 

I assume that stirring up too much stuff will just cause more algae, is that correct? 

The loose top debris is fine to gently vacuum, but don't jam it down into the substrate.

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