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Mark C.
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On 5/13/2022 at 6:26 PM, Mark C. said:

My wife suggested we take the driftwood out but I’d rather not do that if we can avoid it.

Definitely not causing issues.   The wood isn't going to swing PH that far.

 

The issue is the PH swing from low to high to low you're experiencing

In that video of Cory and Lamont discussing crushed coral he talks about KH and bacteria cycle and how it's all related. It gives you a good idea of what's going on.  The phrase he used is.... (searching)

KH is "the measurement of the amount of free ions there are to bond with the byproduct of breaking down waste"

Queued up to that statement:

 

Edited by nabokovfan87
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On 5/13/2022 at 9:33 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Definitely not causing issues.   The wood isn't going to swing PH that far.

 

The issue is the PH swing from low to high to low you're experiencing

In that video of Cory and Lamont discussing crushed coral he talks about KH and bacteria cycle and how it's all related. It gives you a good idea of what's going on.  The phrase he used is.... (searching)

KH is "the measurement of the amount of free ions there are to bond with the byproduct of breaking down waste"

Queued up to that statement:

 

Yeah I heard him talking about that. So I have to get my KH up so my PH will be sufficient enough for the bacteria to grow to complete my cycle. I’m hoping that little bit of baking soda I added will help until I can get the coral going. 
 

How much of the coral were you able to get in a Tidal 55? You just have the sponge, then the coral, then the matrix?

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On 5/13/2022 at 7:03 PM, Mark C. said:

How much of the coral were you able to get in a Tidal 55? You just have the sponge, then the coral, then the matrix?

About 3/4 of a lb. So I had two sponges I now have one sponge. In my 35 I have two of the bumpy sponge, they are slightly less thickness comparatively to the tidal stock stuff. My 55, let me record a video and talk through what's going on.

I started by showing the very annoying bypass. It was a lot worse when I had two sponges in. It's just a frustrating issue.

After that, the top bag is just a media bag and thanks to seachem being weird it's over a foot long. No idea why. But that's the crushed coral.

Below that I have the media.

Below that I have the sponge.

I kind of use the coral bag to keep the media bag clean. Bypass just means there's a lot of water flowing into the media, usually.

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On 5/13/2022 at 7:26 PM, Mark C. said:

I added a 1/4 tsp of baking soda a few hours ago. It has brought my pH up some but it didn’t have a tremendous effect on kH. I’m not gonna add anymore baking soda it the tank right now. I’ll wait till I get the crushed coral on Sunday and add that to the tank. I’m also gonna do some testing like @quikv6suggested. I tested the pH in my 10 gallon tank and it’s right around 6.4 or 6.5. I only have one more test strip for KH and GH right now and that one will be for the water sample I’m doing for @nabokovfan87  My wife suggested we take the driftwood out but I’d rather not do that if we can avoid it. I’m hoping coral will buffer it enough to keep PH stable enough to get my cycle completed. 

Driftwood is part of a healthy, stable tank... eventually. 

Consider your 10 gallon like a bachelor's degree. You did the work, and C's get degrees. (The ich outbreak).

The 29 gallon, plus the driftwood, let you know that the water out of your tap needs a little chemistry to be healthy long term for your fauna (fish, shrimp, snails, etc). So you are moving into grad school territory.

While the frustration right now feels pretty big, your 29 gallon with the driftwood just taught a necessary lesson that might have taken years to learn in the 10 gallon, and would have been more catastrophic when it finally crashed.

I think you will be pleased once you have a bag of crushed coral in your tank. Your livebearers, and any shrimp or snails you decide to get in the future will benefit greatly from your having this opportunity to learn about kH now.

A mild perspective shift helps keep the hobby fun.

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Cleaned the filter because I was "annoyed" at how it looked on the video.  I looked at the sponge and was just... dumbfounded at how not dirty at all the filter was.  I think I am going to end up getting some snips and cutting out a portion of the base.  If it works, I'll end up making a guide for "how to fix it".

That being said, I think the baking soda actually will work.  They gave a specific value for how much to use, test it in a 5G bucket, and then use THAT data to determine how to dose your tank.

That's what I'd suggest. (maybe it was a thread someone pointed to?)  It's been a blur today.

On 5/13/2022 at 10:00 PM, Torrey said:

I only have one more test strip for KH and GH right now and that one will be for the water sample I’m doing for

you can also use scissors and cut it in half to have two tests 😉

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On 5/13/2022 at 11:05 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

About 3/4 of a lb. So I had two sponges I now have one sponge. In my 35 I have two of the bumpy sponge, they are slightly less thickness comparatively to the tidal stock stuff. My 55, let me record a video and talk through what's going on.

I started by showing the very annoying bypass. It was a lot worse when I had two sponges in. It's just a frustrating issue.

After that, the top bag is just a media bag and thanks to seachem being weird it's over a foot long. No idea why. But that's the crushed coral.

Below that I have the media.

Below that I have the sponge.

I kind of use the coral bag to keep the media bag clean. Bypass just means there's a lot of water flowing into the media, usually.

So the coral goes on top? Above the BioMedia? 

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Trying to pull before and after and see what I see.  Got the computer out.  (where's my color adjusted monitor!) 😂

Before:
 

Quote

803681AB-E080-4E48-856C-38233051C054.jpeg

After:

On 5/14/2022 at 4:56 AM, Mark C. said:



19742377-2F12-4AEB-BD28-461DFB479159.jpeg

 

It definitely looks like PH went from 6.5 to 6.0 to me.

image.png.744e3f0bbcdbca6defb14b309bf41028.png

I don't know if you have the sample handy, but maybe the API Liquid PH can verify the 6.0 vs. other 6.X results?  Either way, the result I am seeing makes sense for PH dropping after water is aerated. That being said..... now we have to look at the big swings and 8.X results.

Strip on the first run *definitely* looks like 6.5 to me.

On 5/13/2022 at 9:25 AM, Mark C. said:

Yeah I have pretty soft water. And the water out of the tap has a pretty high pH so I don’t know. The driftwood is real. I soaked it for about 3 days in a bucket of water prior to putting it in the tank. Yea, I have some filter floss in my HOB filter, just got that in there yesterday though. Adding some pics for this post. A21BF10C-26DF-4D98-AC6E-454EDFBF97BB.jpeg.955a0c533e4ee5c2bd0bd355efa9f8d9.jpeg39013BD4-4704-43C4-8FD6-71DE7480F58E.jpeg.ee1cb987a64bdc325bbc0cf49d3f60ae.jpeg18E3A070-C3C8-41EE-BDD5-844514EBC665.jpeg.507a3774fd02d28df57c8e48ecee738f.jpeg

Waste in the tank = higher PH swings compared to "true PH" (this would be the aerated result after 24 hours as your "normal" PH from the tap.  When you do the water changes, that is basically the PH you're working with.

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I found this as a possible explanation.  I also believe it was mentioned earlier in a different thread (someone having issues with their outdoor pond).

 

Quote

The second most common cause of high pH is lots of plant and/or algae activity. Plants and algae survive on the alternating processes of photosynthesis and respiration. Respiration in plants and algae occurs in the absence of sunlight and is the same as most aerobic organisms on earth. Summarized, cellular respiration uses oxygen and fuel to create energy or heat, carbon dioxide, and water. In the reverse, photosynthesis uses light energy to take carbon dioxide and water to make oxygen and fuel for the plants to survive. By removing the carbon dioxide from the environment, and not increasing the carbonate alkalinity, your pH can rise slowly or dramatically, given the total amount of plant life in your pond or aquarium.

 

Various substrates may also be leeching cations into your water and bringing up your pH. Be sure that you are using an appropriate substrate for your species and tank setup. A simple test can be done by soaking some substrate in a bucket of freshwater and measuring the change in pH.

Heres the thread in question:
 

Referencing this link with similar information: https://thefishsite.com/articles/managing-high-ph-in-freshwater-ponds

Edited by nabokovfan87
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I wish I had tested with a liquid pH test the test water that I areated for 24 hours to get a better result. I put some more water from the tap in a bowl and let it sit for about an hour. Looks like it’s right at 8. Makes me wonder if more water changes and the crushed coral would keep it up? Hoping the crushed coral will just do the trick. 4E7B6260-DF16-489F-A79F-FB692A979E26.jpeg.4e28e5258c781722ace3d07a2403aa70.jpeg

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I have started having pH swings in my tanks w/o dirt.

I did the 24 hour aeration and discovered my 8.0 pH out of the Pür filter (kitchen sink) drops to 6.4 pH after 24 hours. Why?

Because while we have too much calcium in our source water (the reason for the Pür faucet filter), we have almost no magnesium in our water. So no buffer. Over 300 TDS comes out of the faucet.... and no usable magnesium for my plants😒 kH in my tanks from larger water changes (and I hadn't tested my tap water in a while because I ran out of strips), so didn't realize I was lowering kH... kH & pH had been dropping, and I couldn't figure out why. 

Only tanks not at 40 ppm kH or lower were my shrimp tank (remineralized RO) and the tank next door (I top off both with the same water, and if I have water left from shrimp tank water change, I use the leftover water for the neighbor tank).

This past week, while I reorganized my bedroom to be in compliance with a new housing mandate, I discovered that the bag of crushed coral that normally lasts a good 6 months had almost completely dissolved in 6 of my 13 tanks.

In February, my kH out of the Pür filter was 120 to 180 ppm, so I have no clue what my water treatment facility changed.

I do know that a decade ago they started pumping water from the Rio Grande into our aquifer to offset the drop in water levels and try to prevent sink holes.

They didn't treat the water before pumping it in, and that might be causing problems to water stability now.🤷‍♂️

At any rate, the crushed coral does a great job at improving pH stability,  and you can "pretreat" your water (for both tanks) in a 30 or 50 gallon trash can, if you desire. Aeration will let you know accurate pH for water changes, aeration gets rid of simple chlorine in 24 hours of offgassing (need to use water treatment for chloramine), and you can sink a bag of crushed coral in the treatment reservoir (the trashcan of water) if you don't want to keep it in the tank.

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I just got the crushed coral running in the filter. I don’t have a good scale or anything so I just started with about a cup of it in there. We will see what effect that has in a couple of days I guess. I’ve been reading that it can take a week or so to see a change. I hope it doesn’t take that long. I need this tank to cycle. We are getting impatient for some new fish lol. 
 

On a different note, I did test all the water parameters this morning and there was zero ammonia, zero nitrites but sadly zero nitrates as well! Hmmm

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Got my GH and KH test kit in the mail today. Out of my tap, my KH is between 1 and 2 degrees and my GH is around 3 degrees. 
 

Both are pretty low. Is it going to be necessary for me to condition my water prior to doing water changes or will I just need to smaller water changes, more frequently?

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I have similar water parameters out of the tap, with a PH of around 6.6-6.8. I decided to keep livebearers (before I knew what my water was), so I do doctor my water.

I still recommend using the coral, and seeing exactly what it will do. It's good to add in the filter, but you can also add it to the gravel, for a slower dissolving rate. I have coral in both the filter and the gravel. Give it a week or so, and test. If you can get the KH up to around 100-120ppm (I don't know how many drops that is), then you may be fine to do larger waterchanges without doctoring any new water. You would have to test the PH as well, to see how different it is compared to new, fresh water. I would say about 30-40% change at the most.

I do 50% changes weekly, but I add some baking soda gradually while refilling, to match parameters a bit closer. While it has helped me learn my water, and get a knack for what is needed....I think you should avoid this method if you can.

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Update: after a little less than 24 hours of the coral being in the filter I did some tests. My KH came up a small amount. My PH is a good bit different and the rest is still at zero, Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates. Some positive changes I think. 
 

But my son was anxious for a pleco so we added a Clown Pleco to the tank a few days ago and I looked at him today and he is covered in white spots. I’m hoping it’s just a little bit of stress so I’ll watch it. Don’t want to have to treat this tank for ick right now. Dang!

Also, the tank is clearer than it has been in a week so that’s also positive  

044A3413-4BD1-4782-983A-9BE82DB8A56E.jpeg.e692e2825370c09124d43139ca3a7096.jpeg

B45471F4-F4FD-4976-9624-B32DFF1D4A5F.jpeg

Edited by Mark C.
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On 5/16/2022 at 10:38 AM, Guppysnail said:

Quarantine for new fish is imperative to healthy fish both the new fish and existing fish. These may help

 

 

Yeah I have seen those videos. Just haven’t done that yet and didn’t realize how big of an issue it was. Ugh. Just one more thing. I don’t have a tank that is established enough to put filter media into the quarantine tub so it will be seriously like me starting a brand new tank. 

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On 5/16/2022 at 10:42 AM, Mark C. said:

Yeah I have seen those videos. Just haven’t done that yet and didn’t realize how big of an issue it was. Ugh. Just one more thing. I don’t have a tank that is established enough to put filter media into the quarantine tub so it will be seriously like me starting a brand new tank. 

This is a lesson most of us also learned the hard way.  In a qt tank/tub it’s easy to just test test test and do daily water changes to keep it safe and medicate as needed.  Much less work heartache than not.  

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On 5/17/2022 at 4:31 PM, DebSills said:

how are things going with your tank? any improvement with the crushed coral? how is your pleco?

I hope things are going ok with your 29g and that your 10g has made it through their treatment as well.

best of luck!

Thank you! The 10G fish are great! Treatment went well and they are all good. Didn’t lose any fish.

The day after I put the coral in the 29G I saw an improvement to water clarity and the KH and PH coming up. Unfortunately I have started treating ICK in that tank now due to that Pleco having white spots all over him. I figured I needed to go ahead and get it going to be safe. I’m hoping that treatment doesn’t set the tank back. Using API Super Ick Cure. It worked great in the 10G. 
 

Thank you for checking. I’m still on the struggle lol

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On 5/17/2022 at 2:46 PM, Mark C. said:

Thank you for checking. I’m still on the struggle lol

It is so hard to patiently wait for the box of water chemistry to be ready for live guests. I don't know of a single aquarist who hasn't learned the value of waiting without making similar errors. 

Consider it the crash course of aquarium keeping, and I am sorry ya'll are struggling.

Exactly what kind of pleco did you buy?

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On 5/17/2022 at 3:12 PM, Mark C. said:

@Torreythanks! A Clown Pleco. This is him with the ick

33F68DB1-87C2-4E22-8AD3-A7713CE72EAC.jpeg

Yeah, clowns aren't supposed to have spots. Glad you are treating him and I hope you, the family, the tank, and the pleco all do well!

My kids learned a similar lesson: Don't get livestock until everything is ready

I expanded it into discussions on responsibility, accountability, and as they hit puberty discussions on how relationships can be evaluated for health. Fish keeping makes us better parents, and offers up amazing learning opportunities!

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So another update: second treatment dose of ick stuff went in today. PH has come up a little more to around 7.3 or 7.4. Still a slight hint of ammonia and zero Nitrites or Nitrates. Don’t really know what to think about this tank. Been running over 3 weeks now. 
But the coral definitely works, for sure!

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