Home water softeners

[Ben_RF]

1 minute ago, Myparrotfishcrew said:

My house was built in 2005 so it would surprise me at all if the water softener was 2007 installed. 
I’m going to call a plumber today. See what it will cost to flush my hot water heater and service my water softener. 
thank you so much Ben! 
To bad you aren’t located here in gorgeous Southeast Georgia!! 😁👍🏼

🙂 I do miss Georgia. I used to live outside of Athens for college and my roommate was from down in Macon. 

So, while a plumber is well equipped to to do your annual flush of your water heater ; it is surprising the large number of plumbers that are not knowledgable about servicing a water softener.  Make sure whatever plumber you have is knowledgable on your unit or get yourself check out by a water quality specialist.  

If I was looking for a plumber, those that are participating in Nexstar network tend to be particularly good.  

[Myparrotfishcrew]

Ok... I have a a fix! And a question at the bottom. 
3/1 mix. 
3 parts soft water to 1 part hard water gives me the perfect hardness for my Parrot Fish tanks. 
This has been a hectic day. 
I’ve had the city flush all my water lines. Plus send me a water report. 
Plumber is coming to clean my hot water heater Friday. (Rebuilding it as a side note just because might as well since it hasn’t been done in who knows when.) 

I have a water softener specialist coming Tuesday to clean and maintenance my water softener. 
I have been on the phone with the whirlpool company and received some excellent information I’m going to share here about water softeners and the salt used. Excellent people and company very helpful! 

WHIRLPOOL RESPONSE

“The bonding agents for Pellets are a food grade Sodium Sultrate and Anion Surfactans. The Marketing people will tell you they both aid in cleaning the resin. The fact is they just hold it into the Pellet form. And two down falls of these two compounds is they don't handle temperature change well. Which is why if people down south call me complaining about a salty slur in the bottom of the salt tank which is located outside. I tell them because of the Hot days and cold nights there pellets are breaking down and if they switch to crystals they wont have that problem. in this case both those compounds even in a slight residual form are hard on fish health over an extended period of time.”

Linda, that is what was stated to me after asking why they advised for the use of ‘Chrystals’ versus ‘Pellets’, when it comes down to owning Tropical Fish in the home.

 “The hardness setting doesn't affect the level of hardness in the water coming out of the machine. it affects the frequency of the recharges. bumping the hardness setting down will only make the recharges happen less frequently. this will mean the softener will produce fully softened water for awhile and then when it runs out of softening capacity it will not soften water at all until the next recharge happens.”

Linda, this is the response I received for asking if you are able to lower the hardness level to produce more hardness in the water. All in all, there is no way to put hardness back into the water. Other than using something that is called a “Bleeder.” Whirlpool does not manufacturer ‘Bleeders’ and they also have no information on them. I’m sorry about that. But if you are looking to put hardness back into the water that is the only way to do it. Lowering the hardness level would do nothing to put hardness back into the water or to make your water harder.

I hope this information makes sense. If not, please give us another call.

Thank you for contacting Whirlpool!”

 

 Please let me know how tolerant fish are to this change from the soft water to converting to the hard water  recommended ways to acclimate. 
thank you everyone!!!  

 

[Ben_RF]

Bravo! Looks like you are on the right track.  As for the fish part, I am not versed with that particular fish besides what I have read online (slightly acidic water preference?).  

[Myparrotfishcrew]

1 hour ago, Ben_RF said:

Bravo! Looks like you are on the right track.  As for the fish part, I am not versed with that particular fish besides what I have read online (slightly acidic water preference?).  

I don’t think anyone truly knows what the parentage is on the Parrot fish, Yaun Bao & golden tigers. I’ve read a lot of speculation. 
My fish guy Dae said he’s reasonably sure about the Midas Ciclid being part of the mix. 
I just try to research the Midas for my guys needs. Who knows if I’m way off? It’s actually kinda frustrating. 

[Tami]

So as I read these comments it seems that you CAN you salt treated water in a fresh water tank?  

I really want a bigger tank but buying/ hauling water is a pain with 29g I can't even imagine the 55g I want.

My well has high iron and turns red if take before the softener so bypassing is not an option.  Of all the searching I get mixed feedback on salt softened water being safe for fish.

I am considering an RO system but remineralizing the water is yet another lesson I am finding hard to figure.

Any comments/ feedback/ suggestions appreciated.

 

[Kat_Rigel]

2 hours ago, Tami said:

So as I read these comments it seems that you CAN you salt treated water in a fresh water tank?  

I really want a bigger tank but buying/ hauling water is a pain with 29g I can't even imagine the 55g I want.

My well has high iron and turns red if take before the softener so bypassing is not an option.  Of all the searching I get mixed feedback on salt softened water being safe for fish.

I am considering an RO system but remineralizing the water is yet another lesson I am finding hard to figure.

Any comments/ feedback/ suggestions appreciated.

 

I am confident that water which has been treated with a water softener is safe for fish. I cannot think of any reason that it would be unsafe. I must put in the caveat that I myself do not have a water softener; I had one at my house as a kid and we did have a little aquarium where the fish were fine (long time ago though, so take with.. heh... a grain of salt.)

What are the arguments you are seeing against using softened water? I haven't looked into it since it doesn't affect me currently.

[Coronal Mass Ejection Carl]

4 hours ago, Kat_Rigel said:

I am confident that water which has been treated with a water softener is safe for fish. I cannot think of any reason that it would be unsafe. I must put in the caveat that I myself do not have a water softener; I had one at my house as a kid and we did have a little aquarium where the fish were fine (long time ago though, so take with.. heh... a grain of salt.)

What are the arguments you are seeing against using softened water? I haven't looked into it since it doesn't affect me currently.

Fish uptake calcium and magnesium from the water. It might not be a good idea to place them in unnatural water where calcium and magnesium have largely been replaced with sodium.

[Kat_Rigel]

3 hours ago, Coronal Mass Ejection Carl said:

Fish uptake calcium and magnesium from the water. It might not be a good idea to place them in unnatural water where calcium and magnesium have largely been replaced with sodium.

You would still need to check the gh and kh levels, of course, but you can always supplement with crushed coral or wonder shell. (I prefer crushed coral.) I don"t think it would remove 100% of the Mg and Ca, (thats what an RO unit would do) but thats why you would want to test. I recall my well water still being rather hard even after the water softener, but again, that was quite a while ago. Testing gh will give the answer.

If anything I would be more interested to know if higher sodium levels were harmful to fish; I highly doubt it, but since I don't have any evidence, I can't say 100%.

[lefty o]

i didnt read through every post, but see mention of a common misconception several times. the salt in your water softener does not go into the water. the salt is used to flush the rosin tank when the water softener cycles. again, it does not add salt to the water supply.

[Lochness]

I now live in a rural area and our water comes from a well with a lot of iron.  The water is red pre rust remover and water softener.   My fish are at my office which is served by city water which is quite hard, but the fish do quite well.  Looking to move 4 aquariums home and not sure what to do regarding water.  Is there a way to clean up the natural well water without using softened water?

[Kat_Rigel]

1 hour ago, lefty o said:

i didnt read through every post, but see mention of a common misconception several times. the salt in your water softener does not go into the water. the salt is used to flush the rosin tank when the water softener cycles. again, it does not add salt to the water supply.

Eh, kind of. I agree that it does not put salt (sodium chloride) into the water. But there is definitely an increase in the amount of sodium ions in the softened water. So... like half of the salt, sort of? Lol

More detailed explanation here, explains it well imo if folks want more detail.

http://www.scientificamerican.com//public/resources/favicons/favicon-4c8c70500bd3f01ae8c38cf7dd2771fe.ico How do water softeners work?

WWW.SCIENTIFICAMERICAN.COM

---

 

I would expect the softener removes iron as well, likely the same way Ca and Mg ions are removed. But I can't say that 100%.

 

27 minutes ago, Lochness said:

I now live in a rural area and our water comes from a well with a lot of iron.  The water is red pre rust remover and water softener.   My fish are at my office which is served by city water which is quite hard, but the fish do quite well.  Looking to move 4 aquariums home and not sure what to do regarding water.  Is there a way to clean up the natural well water without using softened water?

@lochness If it were me I would use the softened water out of the tap.

[Yet Another Aquarist]

I'm working with well water also.  I haven't been there a year yet so I haven't figured it all out.  But, I ended up putting my cold water tap throughout the house on straight well water, and the hot water tap throughout the house (and the cold to the washing machine) on softened water.  This way, aquariums and house plants can be anywhere without having to worry about extra sodium from the softening process.  But, the devices that could get clogged by hard water (hot water heater & washing machine for me) are protected.  So far, so good on that front.

The issue that is popping up for me is iron in the water.  It's less than 1 ppm.  But, it's enough to taste slightly, and enough to create a hair algae farm in all my tanks.  I've been trying to adjust my fertilizer to dose more macros to use the micros already in the water.  But I don't have the balance down yet.  

[Kat_Rigel]

3 minutes ago, Yet Another Aquarist said:

I'm working with well water also.  I haven't been there a year yet so I haven't figured it all out.  But, I ended up putting my cold water tap throughout the house on straight well water, and the hot water tap throughout the house (and the cold to the washing machine) on softened water.  This way, aquariums and house plants can be anywhere without having to worry about extra sodium from the softening process.  But, the devices that could get clogged by hard water (hot water heater & washing machine for me) are protected.  So far, so good on that front.

The issue that is popping up for me is iron in the water.  It's less than 1 ppm.  But, it's enough to taste slightly, and enough to create a hair algae farm in all my tanks.  I've been trying to adjust my fertilizer to dose more macros to use the micros already in the water.  But I don't have the balance down yet.  

That's an interesting issue, I'd be interested to hear others' experience with iron in hard water. It definitely has a taste. 

[Yet Another Aquarist]

4 minutes ago, Kat_Rigel said:

That's an interesting issue, I'd be interested to hear others' experience with iron in hard water. It definitely has a taste. 

I'm definitely looking for ideas.  Maybe there are some plants that use a bit more iron but without requiring CO2?

The taste doesn't show up in my coffee, so it doesn't bother me.  

[Tami]

I also have a lot of iron in my well water - the water turns red without treatment.  I haven't measured levels of sodium, but I do notice a "salty" build up on my plant pots and even in the garden if I water too much from the faucet. My husband doesn't like the taste of our water even with the softner and Brita

I have only dont GH/Kh testing with strips last year when I started and was told it didn't matter if I didn't change my water mix from my sources.  I use an API master that doesn't contain that test and to be honest I have just getting the hang of water management without GH/KH.

I do need to learn because I do think I will go with a R/O system as I was just given another 29 gal tank and still have dreams of a 55

[Tami]

@lefty othat is the contradiction I am always finding. I don't want to spend the money on the RO but am tired of buying water and I get 50% for and 50% against using softened well water

[lefty o]

the white crusty stuff from your water is generally minerals, not salt.

Edited December 11, 2020 by lefty o
dyslexic typing

[Kat_Rigel]

20 minutes ago, lefty o said:

the white crusty stuff from your water is generally minerals, not salt.

I mean, I would consider table salt a mineral, but maybe I am splitting hairs. 

[Kat_Rigel]

1 hour ago, Tami said:

@lefty othat is the contradiction I am always finding. I don't want to spend the money on the RO but am tired of buying water and I get 50% for and 50% against using softened well water

I'm still unclear why softened well water would be considered unsafe for fish.

[Tami]

@Kat_Rigelmost are saying the sodium for the salt softener but have just as many say it isn't an issue

[Yet Another Aquarist]

I didn't actually try using the softened water for fish so I don't know from experience if the sodium makes a difference.  I keep a lot of mollies and swordtails, so I wanted the hard water anyhow.