CO2 and sponge filters

[Cory]

On 5/10/2022 at 4:20 PM, gjcarew said:

When you see the typical "gasping at the surface" from injecting too much CO2, the fish is not trying to breathe atmospheric air. The water at the top of the water column is more oxygenated, so they go there to catch their breath. If you don't promote gas exchange with airstones, skimmers, or whatever else you run a FAR higher risk of suffocating your fish. Let's say your light malfunctions while your CO2 is on-- the plants aren't making oxygen anymore. Even at low CO2 injection levels the aquarium can go anoxic fairly quickly. You need ample gas exchange at the surface to ensure your fish will survive until you notice something wrong. 

I run high CO2 levels for the most part. As in so much that a bubble counter is useless. At the same time, I have my canister filter outflow pointed towards the water surface and an airstone turning on for 5 minutes per hour, as well as going nonstop when CO2 isn't on. I have never had any trouble injecting CO2 at 30+ ppm. Sure, I may have to refill my CO2 tank after 20 rather than 22 weeks, but it's 100% worth the peace of mind of knowing the fish are safe. 

The key here isn't how much co2 you put in. Co2 and oxygen are independent in the water. It just so happens that people try to not gas off co2 and therefore have poor oxygen. Another side effect is that when plants don't have a light they consume oxygen. When using an oxygen meter, non co2 injected tanks, with high plant loads or very high fish loads, would have low oxygen before the light comes on for the day. This happens regardless of co2 injection technically.

This is why it's important to educate people like you have, to have good gas exchange and not limit it to "preserve co2" at the expense of oxygen. You can 100% have both high levels of oxygen and co2 in aquarium water.

[Nano Bubbles]

On 5/10/2022 at 1:12 PM, Jawjagrrl said:

I started diy CO2 (the fzone kit mentioned in my sidebyside blog) a couple of weeks ago and my plants are definitely happy. Would they be otherwise? Probably. But to get zero crypt melt on new plants and have my tranplanted lily put out new leaves within 2 days.... in a new tank?

I have a double-stacked medium sponge filter at one end of the 55 tank, and a powerhead and the CO2 on the opposite end. I have the powerhead right over the diffuser so as the bubbles reach the top they get blown out into the tank and not just out the top. I planted the tank on 4/20 and the crypts have added numerous new leaves as have the anubias. the pogostemon is already almost at the top of the tank with the water sprite close behind. I've got a plant I just added cuttings of that I failed to grow last year right next to it to see what happens.

I had not read anything about an incompatibility before going this route, so I'm glad I tried it anyway. I plant to move it to the tetra side of my sidebyside project when I get it set up just to give everything a jump start.

Thanks for explaining your setup and experience! That was easy to understand. I’m going to try that layout. I’ll just need to buy a powerhead 👍

[Jawjagrrl]

On 5/11/2022 at 3:43 AM, Nano Bubbles said:

Thanks for explaining your setup and experience! That was easy to understand. I’m going to try that layout. I’ll just need to buy a powerhead 👍

Full disclosure - I am still very new to plants. I kept a bulb of some type going in a 2.5gal tank on my desk for a year 10 years ago, and that was my experience in total until last summer. I've ok success with plants in several nano tanks since then, but nothing amazing (except my duckweed and jungle val that now spirals around in my portrait tank because it's grown over 2 feet since late January). The 55 I showed is my first "big" planted tank ever and the current arrangement is based on tweaks over the last few weeks since planting it. So take my setup with a big grain of salt. I had powerheads running an undergravel filter in my cichlid days and they are great for added flow and surface agitation that those fish really needed - I did add a prefilter sponge to mine to baffle it down a bit, which also helps polish the water a bit on the far end. Odd as it sounds, the tank seems happiest when I have the powerhead on the back wall facing the front - I had it on the side facing the other end before and my floating plants were just getting pushed around way too much.

I just watched all the clips everyone posted and the one difference I am noticing is that my diffuser bubbles are nowhere near as fine as what I'm seeing. Not sure if I need a better quality one (always the potential in a kit situation) or if I need some other adjustment.

[Jeff]

Just remember - if you use a nutrient rich substrate...that those nutrients eventually are gone; and you'll have to supplement somehow. 

 

 

[Nano Bubbles]

On 5/10/2022 at 3:52 PM, Cory said:

In my opinion this is a subject people like to take to extremes. with surface agitation, you won't have co2! When that isn't a true statement.

Agitation on top of the water, will disperse some co2. If i put a co-op nano sponge filter in my giant pond, that'll barely do anything for oxygen or co2. If I put a large sponge filter in a 2.5 gallon with a giant air pump boiling over, that would gas off a lot.

In real life though, people have say a 29to 75 gallon with a sponge filter. They want to add co2. Lets say your plants eat 5 units of co2 every hour. Lets say your sponge filter gasses off 1 unit of co2 every hour. To offset this you just turn your co2 up a bit. Instead of refilling the co2 tank once every 18 months, you do it every 16 months now. Cost being probably $2-3 difference.

However your aquarium will get the benefit of the additional circulation. Your plants and fish will get the oxygen they need. (you do know that plants consume oxygen at night right?) and keep your pH more stable in your aquarium. At the cost of $2 per 16 months or so, best money spent is to have both vs investing it anywhere else in my opinion.

 

But this is only if you want to play with co2. Most times I don't.

Thank you! Yeah I just want to play around with co2 and give it a try, just to say I did and know for sure if it’s worth it or not for myself.

Thanks so much for explaining all that! 

[Nano Bubbles]

On 5/11/2022 at 9:50 AM, Jeff said:

Just remember - if you use a nutrient rich substrate...that those nutrients eventually are gone; and you'll have to supplement somehow. 

 

 

Thank you! For my big tank I don’t use anything fancy like that, just gravel and root tabs and liquid fertilizer. But for my little tank I use seachem flourite.