CO2 and sponge filters

[Nano Bubbles]

Is CO2 worth it if you use sponge filters? I have two sponges running in my 36gallon and I just added a little co2 kit. I was super excited until I found out that they’re not compatible or you run out of co2 faster?

 

Just looking for some people who have experience with this and how it worked out for you and if you still think it’s worth it. I don’t want to stop using sponge filters either. 
 

p.s. I know CO2 isn’t necessary at all and you can have great growth without it, I’ve just never tried it and wanted to. 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Nano Bubbles

[Tihshho]

Such a controvertial subject. Some people will swear tons of surface agitation negates the absorbtion of CO2 and there are others recently (Cory talked about this on a video actually, wish I remembered which it was to link) about it not being an issue. I personally fall in the first boat, only because that's what I've been doing for 15 years. 

I personally think it depends on a few things. Are you looking for the best plant growth? Then CO2 is ideal, better to have injected than none at all. Are you looking for an ADA display with that type of growth? Probably not the best to have sponges running besides them not fitting the ADA style aesthetic. 

[Nano Bubbles]

On 5/10/2022 at 11:30 AM, Tihshho said:

Such a controvertial subject. Some people will swear tons of surface agitation negates the absorbtion of CO2 and there are others recently (Cory talked about this on a video actually, wish I remembered which it was to link) about it not being an issue. I personally fall in the first boat, only because that's what I've been doing for 15 years. 

I personally think it depends on a few things. Are you looking for the best plant growth? Then CO2 is ideal, better to have injected than none at all. Are you looking for an ADA display with that type of growth? Probably not the best to have sponges running besides them not fitting the ADA style aesthetic. 

I’ve gotten into live plants the last year and just want to see if the CO2 will kick up my growth in my larger tank. Im not sure what ADA aesthetic is, so I don’t think I’m going for it lol. 
Do you think removing one sponge filter and having the sponge and the cO2 diffuser on opposite sides of the tank would be best? 
 

[Tihshho]

ADA (Aqua Designed Amano) style done by Takashi Amano is what spun up the jaw dropping planted displays. Those setups are generally high tech (strong lighting, compressed CO2 injection, nutrient based substrate, and a liquid dosing regiment) and you want to control your parameters as best you can.

If you're looking for growth period, having CO2 injection is better than none. If you want to have more control of your parameters (specifically CO2 injection), my take is that tons of surface movement (any air driven filter or addition of an airstone) is going to make CO2 injection challenging. First you need to know what you're after. Lush plants, you'll probably benefit the way you have stuff setup. If you're struggling with CO2 injection then removing a sponge filter might be the first step. 

Someone with more experience with sponge filter based CO2 injected tanks could clarify the otherside of this. 

[Ben Ellison]

Why not look into going with a powerhead that would remove the downside of using sponges with co2

[Nano Bubbles]

On 5/10/2022 at 11:51 AM, Tihshho said:

ADA (Aqua Designed Amano) style done by Takashi Amano is what spun up the jaw dropping planted displays. Those setups are generally high tech (strong lighting, compressed CO2 injection, nutrient based substrate, and a liquid dosing regiment) and you want to control your parameters as best you can.

If you're looking for growth period, having CO2 injection is better than none. If you want to have more control of your parameters (specifically CO2 injection), my take is that tons of surface movement (any air driven filter or addition of an airstone) is going to make CO2 injection challenging. First you need to know what you're after. Lush plants, you'll probably benefit the way you have stuff setup. If you're struggling with CO2 injection then removing a sponge filter might be the first step. 

Someone with more experience with sponge filter based CO2 injected tanks could clarify the otherside of this. 

Wow! Thank you for all that information. ADA definitely sounds like something very far off that I’m nowhere near ready to attempt lol. I’ll remove one sponge filter and start there. 

On 5/10/2022 at 11:57 AM, Ben Ellison said:

Why not look into going with a powerhead that would remove the downside of using sponges with co2

What kind of powerhead would do that?

[Tihshho]

On 5/10/2022 at 2:57 PM, Ben Ellison said:

Why not look into going with a powerhead that would remove the downside of using sponges with co2

You know what, big brain solution right there!

[Nano Bubbles]

On 5/10/2022 at 12:03 PM, Tihshho said:

You know what, big brain solution right there!

Powerhead for what part? Sorry I’m lost 

[Tihshho]

The ACO spongefilter and the ACO powerhead can work together. Rather than running air to create the venturi used to pull water through the filter, the powerhead pulls water through. Surface aggitation is reduced using this method. 

[Ben Ellison]

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/products/aquarium-co-op-power-head

 

This is the powerhead I was thinking of.

https://youtu.be/UbekjhjiV74

Here is a video of it being used in the manner described. 

 

[Nano Bubbles]

I wish I could buy that one, but I’m in Canada. 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

You can make any power head work with any sponge filter, you just have to do some adapting to make it work. It does not have to be coop. The coop does make them fit pretty well together ie a tight fit but I've rigged up others and it still works. 

[Nano Bubbles]

On 5/10/2022 at 12:08 PM, Tihshho said:

The ACO spongefilter and the ACO powerhead can work together. Rather than running air to create the venturi used to pull water through the filter, the powerhead pulls water through. Surface aggitation is reduced using this method. 

Does ACO stand for aquarium co-op? If it does, I’m in Canada and can’t get that one. I wish I could. 

On 5/10/2022 at 12:27 PM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

You can make any power head work with any sponge filter, you just have to do some adapting to make it work. It does not have to be coop. The coop does make them fit pretty well together ie a tight fit but I've rigged up others and it still works. 

Oh yeah?? Could you recommend any videos on how to do that? 

[nabokovfan87]

In my CO2 planted tank I had....

2 Hang on Backs, 2 Ziss bubble bio moving bed filters, and off and on I had sponge filter in there to seed for another tank. I also had sand substrate which is another big thing people point to with issues in planted tanks.

It all worked fine.  Adding CO2 increases growth and gives plants some of the resources they need to grow. The growth comes with everything in balance and there isn't really a big difference between what you're running and "how" you're running.  Meaning.... If you're not using in-line CO2 or something like this.....  Then you're gonna have some loss.
 

 

[Nano Bubbles]

On 5/10/2022 at 12:19 PM, Ben Ellison said:

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/products/aquarium-co-op-power-head

 

This is the powerhead I was thinking of.

https://youtu.be/UbekjhjiV74

Here is a video of it being used in the manner described. 

 

Awesome thanks so much. I would definitely buy that one but I'm in Canada.

[Ben Ellison]

Well it should at least get you pointed in the right direction.

[Nano Bubbles]

Absolutely, thanks so much!

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

 

 

[Jawjagrrl]

I started diy CO2 (the fzone kit mentioned in my sidebyside blog) a couple of weeks ago and my plants are definitely happy. Would they be otherwise? Probably. But to get zero crypt melt on new plants and have my tranplanted lily put out new leaves within 2 days.... in a new tank?

I have a double-stacked medium sponge filter at one end of the 55 tank, and a powerhead and the CO2 on the opposite end. I have the powerhead right over the diffuser so as the bubbles reach the top they get blown out into the tank and not just out the top. I planted the tank on 4/20 and the crypts have added numerous new leaves as have the anubias. the pogostemon is already almost at the top of the tank with the water sprite close behind. I've got a plant I just added cuttings of that I failed to grow last year right next to it to see what happens.

I had not read anything about an incompatibility before going this route, so I'm glad I tried it anyway. I plant to move it to the tetra side of my sidebyside project when I get it set up just to give everything a jump start.

[nabokovfan87]

On 5/10/2022 at 1:12 PM, Jawjagrrl said:

I have a double-stacked medium sponge filter at one end of the 55 tank, and a powerhead and the CO2 on the opposite end. I have the powerhead right over the diffuser so as the bubbles reach the top they get blown out into the tank and not just out the top.

Some powerheads will let you inflow oxygen, you can also use those to receive the input from the CO2.  BUT.... here's the video from Cory regarding how he adjusts the outflow on the CO2 and some tips regarding letting the CO2 dissolve before it reaches the surface. Obviously, much easier with a tank that's a few feet tall.
 

 

[Brian]

I have never used CO2.  But I didn’t know this was a thing.  I mean what is everyone else doing?  I’ve seen the Aquarium Co Op tanks and Cory’s he uses both.  
Hmm.  Good Luck 

[anewbie]

I would worry about the raw water movement through a sponge via a power head. It would be massive amount of water relative to air driven - at least the power heads I have. This might be great for mechanical filtering but vaguely I think i remember reading somewhere the biological filter works better if the water flow is a bit slower.

[Cory]

In my opinion this is a subject people like to take to extremes. with surface agitation, you won't have co2! When that isn't a true statement.

Agitation on top of the water, will disperse some co2. If i put a co-op nano sponge filter in my giant pond, that'll barely do anything for oxygen or co2. If I put a large sponge filter in a 2.5 gallon with a giant air pump boiling over, that would gas off a lot.

In real life though, people have say a 29to 75 gallon with a sponge filter. They want to add co2. Lets say your plants eat 5 units of co2 every hour. Lets say your sponge filter gasses off 1 unit of co2 every hour. To offset this you just turn your co2 up a bit. Instead of refilling the co2 tank once every 18 months, you do it every 16 months now. Cost being probably $2-3 difference.

However your aquarium will get the benefit of the additional circulation. Your plants and fish will get the oxygen they need. (you do know that plants consume oxygen at night right?) and keep your pH more stable in your aquarium. At the cost of $2 per 16 months or so, best money spent is to have both vs investing it anywhere else in my opinion.

 

But this is only if you want to play with co2. Most times I don't.

[gjcarew]

When you see the typical "gasping at the surface" from injecting too much CO2, the fish is not trying to breathe atmospheric air. The water at the top of the water column is more oxygenated, so they go there to catch their breath. If you don't promote gas exchange with airstones, skimmers, or whatever else you run a FAR higher risk of suffocating your fish. Let's say your light malfunctions while your CO2 is on-- the plants aren't making oxygen anymore. Even at low CO2 injection levels the aquarium can go anoxic fairly quickly. You need ample gas exchange at the surface to ensure your fish will survive until you notice something wrong. 

I run high CO2 levels for the most part. As in so much that a bubble counter is useless. At the same time, I have my canister filter outflow pointed towards the water surface and an airstone turning on for 5 minutes per hour, as well as going nonstop when CO2 isn't on. I have never had any trouble injecting CO2 at 30+ ppm. Sure, I may have to refill my CO2 tank after 20 rather than 22 weeks, but it's 100% worth the peace of mind of knowing the fish are safe. 

Edited May 10, 2022 by gjcarew

[Jawjagrrl]

On 5/10/2022 at 4:39 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Some powerheads will let you inflow oxygen, you can also use those to receive the input from the CO2.  BUT.... here's the video from Cory regarding how he adjusts the outflow on the CO2 and some tips regarding letting the CO2 dissolve before it reaches the surface. Obviously, much easier with a tank that's a few feet tall.
 

 

I made my aspiring NERM spouse (who does none of the maintenance!) watch that one right before ordering sponge filters instead of a canister 🙂 my power head is the coop one for added circulation that the fish I've chosen will prefer. The plants are happy and it was very inexpensive ($79 plus a solenoid for another $29). I planted this 4/20 (except the pink stem plant added yesterday) - I know the pogostemon grows fast anyway, but it was less than 3" when I planted it. The water sprite was the same height before I broke a stem rearranging things.

I saw George Farmer vlog recently about his big tank and his canister contains the heater AND the CO2, but not sure about the brand based on some of Cory's comments in streams about them.