Rack Filtration

[DreamScape_Aquatics]

To preface, let me say I run my rack with individual sponge filters. with 2 larger air pumps per rack. However for my next rack I would like to make a more centralized system. I know sumps are a good option for this but drilling holes, or having to construct rather tacky looking pcv contraptions for overflow, and learning a whole new form of filtration, constructing it... All sounds like quite a bit of a mess. What I do know are canister filters, and as much as Cory likes to hate on canister filters I love them for my larger display tanks.

So my idea is this. With an fx4 12 10 gallons. How could this be done? my idea is T shape joints to split intake and outflow into each individual aquarium. I can't find anything online about it and was wondering if anyone has done this before or would just like to theory craft the franken canister with me.

[Fish Folk]

I’m not a canister filter hater, but I just don’t use them. I’ve just gotten a single air pump to run everything. I went with this…

I’d have gone in for the Linear Piston Air-pump from ACO, but my LFS let me sell them fish I breed for store credit. They run all of their tanks on this.

[BuzzDaddy21]

On 5/2/2022 at 2:45 AM, DreamScape_Aquatics said:

an fx4 12 10 gallons. How could this be done?

Thats an interesting idea, seems like the motor/pump would have to be powerful and I`m no help with this. Would this even be practical? I can`t wait to find out.😕 

[gardenman]

I've toyed with this idea on my 30 high/20 high tanks on a metal stand. Use one Cascade 1200 canister filter to run both tanks. The filter would have the capacity and the plan would be to have it draw water from the bottom tank and return it to the top tank where it would overflow back down to the bottom tank. It's that overflow back down to the bottom tank that's prevented me from doing so. If something goes wrong there, you flood the room until the filter intake in the 20 high runs out of water, then the pump motor burns out from running dry. Any overflow I can imagine still has potential to clog/become obstructed in some manner and that would lead to problems. It's one of those "good in concept" ideas, which might be bad in practice.

An FX4 certainly could handle twelve ten-gallon tanks, but if something goes wrong in the water redistribution after being filtered, things get messy, and wet. Possibly very, very wet and some fish could end up very, very dry.

[Tihshho]

Neat concept, but you're reinventing the wheel with this. Putting tanks on a solo filtration system limit what you can keep as well as introduce risk of crosscontamination of diseases and pathogens if something happens in a single tank. Not only that, the plumbing setup for this will be complicated and you'll need to set it up so that you're not going to overflow any specific tank, this is why sump systems are used for applications like this. 

If you're OK with keeping species that use similar water and not deviating from that then a one stop filter could be done. Ideally, you'd just have a sump which the outlets feed from the sump to the tanks and everything overflows into a sump. You just need to balance the flow as to not overflow anything, and ideally have a secondary overflow incase something gets clogged. Be prepared to find babies in the sump depending on your overflow design. One thing I would greatly recommend is to add a UV filter or a few to handle the return water back to the tanks to prevent pathogens & other nasties from getting into the stocked tanks.

As someone who likes complicated things, engineering, and using tech I have to say keeping rack setups simple has been my goto method for years. My first fishroom everything was run off of a hybrid of air or powered filters. When I redid it in the same space I went with a plumbed auto water change system years ago to which I had a sump that was used for collective drainage and then a feed setup that was tapped to a custom manifold where water temps were set with a shower valve, a set of solenoids to each row, a primary one for on/off and another for purge water to get temps up, and then the feeds went into the tank. This was neat, easy at the time to trigger with a DIY controller I made to my home network, but at the end of the day it didn't pay off. If I were to go with larger scale system (such as pushing 50 or more tanks) then I would consider it again. Anything less for me I found easier to deal with manually. Plus, it meant that I was less reliant on the system which meant spending time with the tanks meant I knew more about what was going on in them. 

Since then, my new fishroom in a new home has back peddled design wise and is based off a central air system where all filtration is handled by sponges. This allows me to bulk order stuff when setting up a new set of racks and everything is plug and play. I don't need to make a run to my local hardware store or keep the copious amounts of spare niche parts to keep the system running. Also, it means that I can pull tanks, play fish rack tetris (of moving tanks or racks around) without killing a primary system for the rest of the room. I also don't have to figure out plumbing behind the tank or contort myself to get fittings loose or attached. Being able to unplug a heater, turn off an air valve or two per tank and drain a tank to just slide it to move, sanitze or replace has been awesome. 

 

[heyderekp]

On 5/2/2022 at 10:01 AM, Tihshho said:

Neat concept, but you're reinventing the wheel with this. Putting tanks on a solo filtration system limit what you can keep as well as introduce risk of crosscontamination of diseases and pathogens if something happens in a single tank. Not only that, the plumbing setup for this will be complicated and you'll need to set it up so that you're not going to overflow any specific tank, this is why sump systems are used for applications like this. 

If you're OK with keeping species that use similar water and not deviating from that then a one stop filter could be done. Ideally, you'd just have a sump which the outlets feed from the sump to the tanks and everything overflows into a sump. You just need to balance the flow as to not overflow anything, and ideally have a secondary overflow incase something gets clogged. Be prepared to find babies in the sump depending on your overflow design. One thing I would greatly recommend is to add a UV filter or a few to handle the return water back to the tanks to prevent pathogens & other nasties from getting into the stocked tanks.

As someone who likes complicated things, engineering, and using tech I have to say keeping rack setups simple has been my goto method for years. My first fishroom everything was run off of a hybrid of air or powered filters. When I redid it in the same space I went with a plumbed auto water change system years ago to which I had a sump that was used for collective drainage and then a feed setup that was tapped to a custom manifold where water temps were set with a shower valve, a set of solenoids to each row, a primary one for on/off and another for purge water to get temps up, and then the feeds went into the tank. This was neat, easy at the time to trigger with a DIY controller I made to my home network, but at the end of the day it didn't pay off. If I were to go with larger scale system (such as pushing 50 or more tanks) then I would consider it again. Anything less for me I found easier to deal with manually. Plus, it meant that I was less reliant on the system which meant spending time with the tanks meant I knew more about what was going on in them. 

Since then, my new fishroom in a new home has back peddled design wise and is based off a central air system where all filtration is handled by sponges. This allows me to bulk order stuff when setting up a new set of racks and everything is plug and play. I don't need to make a run to my local hardware store or keep the copious amounts of spare niche parts to keep the system running. Also, it means that I can pull tanks, play fish rack tetris (of moving tanks or racks around) without killing a primary system for the rest of the room. I also don't have to figure out plumbing behind the tank or contort myself to get fittings loose or attached. Being able to unplug a heater, turn off an air valve or two per tank and drain a tank to just slide it to move, sanitze or replace has been awesome. 

 

This is a great write up. I’m currently designing a AWC system with 2 40 breeders, and 8 20 highs. I’ve been debating on individual heating/filtration elements or running 1 sump per stack (1 for 40s, 1 for 20s). My biggest drawback is I have 0 interest in running heaters in each, and I’m hesitant to fill each with sponge filters since I was planning on scaping the tanks. 

My options I’m considering:

* get a whole room heater (oil filled) to keep the room 74-76F, use sponges in the 8 20s, and do HOB that I already have for the 2 40s. 

* get heaters for each individual tank and use sponges/HOBs 

My biggest concern with individual heaters is the pure amount of wattage I’d be pushing vs doing a single 1500W whole room heater. 

 

[Tihshho]

On 4/7/2023 at 6:12 PM, heyderekp said:

This is a great write up. I’m currently designing a AWC system with 2 40 breeders, and 8 20 highs. I’ve been debating on individual heating/filtration elements or running 1 sump per stack (1 for 40s, 1 for 20s). My biggest drawback is I have 0 interest in running heaters in each, and I’m hesitant to fill each with sponge filters since I was planning on scaping the tanks. 

Thanks! When it comes to racks/rooms the there are a lot of things to consider in the setup besides getting the tanks, lights, filtration, scape and stocking.

One key thing I've learned time and time again over the years is power is something to factor as a priority. Know your homes electrical setup in terms of what rooms go to what breaker. From there you need to then look at the breaker to find out what your power limitations are. To most, plugging in things are the norm. Most don't have an engineering background and don't find these things out until there are problems. Once you've invested into a tank rack or room without planning around power, you've put yourself into a predicament. 

The next thing to figure out is water. In this case it's two parts, source and drain. As we all learn over time hauling buckets gets old, so having reasonable proximity to source and drain make a major difference in terms of optimizing maintenance. The easier we can make our work flow, the easier it is to not let out tanks go in terms of skipping water changes or doing them less frequently. Why do I bring this up in terms of your filtration system comment? Well, if we set our fish racks/rooms up to have easier means of water changes, we don't need to invest heavily into filtration systems that most see as integration of multiple tanks to a filtration subsystem for ease. I'll get into filtration more later. Common sump systems exist successfully for two purposes and their spectrum of success varies as well as associated risk; purpose 1 retail or temporary holding (mainly vendors and wholesalers as they have should have allocated appropriate funds to implement this) and purpose 2 the hobbyist has the appropriate funds to set this up after accessing risks with a linked system. To be brief on risks consider the following to be variables that need to be considered:

1. Species water requirements - linked systems will share the same parameters and limit you on what you can keep with more tanks linked. If you're say a diehard line bred guppy fanatic, this might not be an issue if that's all you're keeping. If you're looking to keep various species from different climates or water types then you have a limiting factor which means either tearing down a system you invested into or adding more tanks off the system while leaving your current systems with limited stock.
2. Hardware redundancy - Sure a linked sump setup is great, but what happens when your return pump dies or fails? What happens when you have a heater go that was spec'd for the system? Have you purchased and tested backup pieces of hardware at the same time to plan for immediate replacement when they fail?
3. Flow - With a central system each system would have equal flow if plumbed correctly. If your setup requires additional flow for a species or to assist in solid waste to be suspended to be pulled into the overflow for the sump to handle in between mainteanance how are you handling this? For most it's a powerhead or pump and that just adds an unexepected plug and power drain to your capped circuit.
4. Pathogens - As I mentioned before this is a big thing to not overlook. A breakout in one tank and not sharing hardware prevents the spread of disease, parasites and pathogens. When you have systems linked you risk the introduction to everything in that system and have to mitigate this with additional particulate filtration and inline UV spec'd to the GPH of your return pump. Also, when it comes to medicating you're not longer treating a 40 or 20 gallon tank and have to now factor the additional tank volume as well as the water volume in the sump and pipes of the system and that can be a massive cost depending on the medication. Risking multiple tanks to contamination would be my sole reason not to recommend a shared filtration system with cirulated water. 

Over the years I've toyed with personal sump setups for breeding projects and well... there was too much risk and issues I ran into that could not justify beefing up or rebuilding the sump setup when I found a technical issue I overlooked. That said, I'm not saying it cannot be done, you just have to look at the big picture and plan before you go down this path. If you don't more and more things will come up with additional unexpected costs. 

In terms of heating, this has always been a challenge for me with a room full of tanks. I agree, heaters are a major power drain and load concern for a circuit when there are a series of tanks requiring different temps and heater sizes. I've tried room heating, individual tank heating, and a hybrid of the two. The best solution IME has been the hybrid approach which I'm currently working on reimplementing in my room soon. Having a room heater set to a specific temp (so tanks do not drop below a specific temperature) allows me to keep numerous species without the need of an in-tank heater being the sole source of heat. If you plan on doing this, make sure the room this is being setup in is well insulated otherwise power from a single room heater might add up as much as multiple tank heaters due to run times. You will also need to make sure the area of the room has adequate internal flow in the room to keep temperatures stable and consistent. Not putting a circulating fan in the room means there will be hot spots and tanks closer to the heater will always be the warmest than those further away. In the hybrid method, keeping the room at 75-77 means that most species I keep are ok without additional heat. For species or tanks that do (be it warmer water species, species that require temp fluxes for spawning, and most important QT) I keep heaters in those tanks to raise the temps of those tanks specifically. When it comes to heating, the source isn't the only factor in this, but containing the heat within the tank is something you also need to consider. As I said before, a well insulated room is a great start. On-top of that glass lids are my go-to for my tanks to keep the temps as stable as possible. In addition to that, having a dedicated room where there isn't a lot of external drafts (from HVAC vents for example or traffic from exterior doors opening and closing) and a door to the room allow the room not to go through fluxes in temperature. 

As for filtration, I've done it all. For many years I wore the rose tinted glasses of power filters were the way to go. The flow was there, the media was there, and the water clarity was there. I'm the third generation of my family in this hobby and was raised on box and sponge filters being the defacto standard. When I got into the hobby I hated the look of bulky hardware in a tank as well as how it just never clicked for me on how it was enough. I wish the realization hit me sooner as well as how air filtration works, but central air is the way to go when you have multiple tanks. Air isn't just for filtration, but you use it for additional flow, fry boxes, hatching brine, and so many more things in the room. Replacing something that could run from an outlet with a single airline will change your life in this hobby. I found that once I spent more time making my fish room functional and less about the form I had more success with various species as well as made my time of doing maintenance drop drastically. Hobbyists with a fishroom don't mind the work in most cases, but when you're spending more time cleaning and less time appreciating what you're keeping you get lost in the noise of maintenance. 

Take a step back from your current plans and ask yourself what you're after in terms of your setup. Are you looking to have display tanks? Are you looking for species tanks for breeding and rearing? Sure you can do both in the same tank but there will be a compromise in your success leaning one way over the other. A functional tank doesn't have to look ugly, but if you're looking to focus on breeding focus on the fish, not the aesthetics of the hardware in the tank. Set yourself up for success with the variables you have in place in terms of space, budget, electrical, and then apply those to your implementation. Making my fishroom functional means I can spend more time enjoying the fish and inverts I keep and less time doing intensive maintenance. It also made it easier to have one nice display tank where I put in additional effort rather than trying to put that same level of effort into an entire room full of tanks. 

Hope this was some food for thought 🙂

[heyderekp]

On 4/7/2023 at 7:24 PM, Tihshho said:

Hope this was some food for thought 🙂

Again, excellent info/write up! It's funny you mention engineering. While I'm not a mechanical/electrical eng, I am a data engineer/IT nerd by day, very DIY friendly and very Type-A (I'm a big time planner), so I've been working on and considering your suggestions from the beginning of this project (power, water/sewer, etc). I lucked out and got an already pre-built 6 zone manifold (which I was planning on building) from a LFS that was going out of business, including an Alita AL-80, which is why air driven filtration is so appealing in this situation. All the tanks are drilled. I have a hot and cold line in the unfinished section of the basement that I'll sweat two new coppers tees on and run the pex to the manifold. 

Currently I only have one 60g setup (which will be the 120G sump when this is all finished), but with the LFS going out of business I got killer deals on tanks. 1 120G, 3 40G Breeders, 1 50G Low boy, and 8 20g Highs. 

Doing the math, my basement office is fully insulated and is typically the most consistent temp room in the house. It would be cheaper to run individual heaters than using a 1500W room heater to keep temps. 

I don't need all 6 zones, so I'm planning on just using three for now. 1 for the 120, 1 for the rack of 20s, and 1 for the 40 breeders. 

After reading through your notes and looking at my variations, my goal is to have a few showcase tanks (the 120, 40 breeders and 50 low boy) and then the 20s for grow out/breeding tanks (bare bottom with lots of floating plants). This would also drop my cost significantly on scaping every tank as well.

The issue that had me stalled for a bit was drainage. I don't have an easily fed gravity drain anywhere close to my basement office, so the plan is to have a sink sump pump at the lowest point with the tanks to be plumbed into the existing PVC shower drain that I'll put a Y pipe on for drainage.

For safety/failsafes, I'm planning on doing small drip irrigation water changes of 2-4 gallons for the smaller tanks every few days so the water volume wouldn't be too much to overwhelm the sink utility pump if I felt like running all the zones at once for an extended period of time. For the 120 I'm planning on doing 10-20 gallons every 3 days, and having a secondary pump (not tied into the return) that will have a float valve to eject any water past a certain point in the sump into the sink utility sump.

The changes won't be automatic on a timer, but rather the push of a button from my phone for each individual zone for when I'm home so I can monitor the changes (I work from home in the same room). I'm also exploring some automation around water sensors that if they were triggered the manifolds would close to stop new water from coming in on all the tanks and would shut off the return pump as an additional precaution. 

If you've got 40 gallon breeder/20G High rack designs (I'd prefer to build than buy) I'd love to see the measurements and cutlists!