Is This Cyanobacteria? (Update: Yes!)

[AndreaW]

The past week I've been noticing a unique smell in my 10G Betta tank. It's almost an earthy-medicinal kind of smell.

A couple days ago I noticed some larger bubbles accumulating on the water and a film between my water lettuce. So far it's only on the surface in one area, on the duckweed. I'm pretty sure this is the start of Cyanobacteria in my tank.

Video: Is This Cyanobacteria

This is my treatment plan:

• Start with a water change and remove as much Cyanobacteria as I can (remove the section of duckweed it's on, since that is the only area I can see it so far).
• Treat one full dose (1 packet/10G) of Maracyn
• Add more air to the tank while treating
• Wait one week before next water change

It is my understanding that Maracyn will not affect my Nerite snails, or the BB, right?

ETA: 

Also, I moved some of my water lettuce to the 46G Community tank.  Should I remove all the water lettuce from that tank to be on the safe side, or is it too late? 

Betta Tank Parameters:

• Temp 79-80*
• pH 7.8
• Ammonia: 0ppm
• Nitrites: 0ppm
• Nitrates: <5ppm
• Phosphates: .25ppm
• I add 2 pumps EG every week (probably should add more to get Nitrates higher)

Edited April 30, 2022 by AndreaW

[Fish Folk]

Hard to be sure, but sounds like you've got the start of cyano. Your steps make sense. If you've not read this, I think it's a very helpful study: https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/blue-green-algae

Now, the real money question is this: what has been contributing to its growth? If even the smallest scrap of live cells survives your treatment, unless you change the factor(s) that are bringing it about, it will return.

(Believe me . . . I represent that remark . . .)

[Widgets]

Here is another article with more info and pictures.

https://fishlab.com/blue-green-algae/

[AndreaW]

On 4/21/2022 at 10:38 AM, Fish Folk said:

what has been contributing to its growth? If even the smallest scrap of live cells survives your treatment, unless you change the factor(s) that are bringing it about, it will return.

As far as I can tell, and from all the varied info I've read, I think maybe next to no Nitrates could be the main cause, and the fact that it's a low-flow tank. I need to figure out how much EG to dose to get the Nitrates up to a decent level. Beyond that, I'm not sure as I haven't added any new plants or decor lately and nothing has really changed. It's a newer tank and was set up in January, but it's been stable.

I did notice the smell, but most pictures and descriptions usually focus on the Cyanobacteria on the substrate, not floating on the surface, but it makes sense, since that is where the light primarily hits and there's the water lettuce to grow around. My Betta has also been making his bubble nests in the same area, so I thought the bubbles were his until I touched them and noticed they were a film.

As for the water lettuce I added to the 46G. I think I am going to remove it and keep my nose ready to detect the smell in case it decides to grow there as well. I'm hoping since it's a higher flow and higher nitrate (40ppm) tank it will not be caught by the Cyanobacteria. 

 

[JoeQ]

I would say its more of a bio film, pond scum thing going on. Cyno can usually be detected early by smell, but visually it starts with small thin blue/green algea like film on the bottom of the tank walls/substrate. 

[JoeQ]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hg68ZW4CP7Y

[AndreaW]

@JoeQ ~ because of the smell, I am inclined to think it’s more than just bio film/pond scum…? It also seems to be more substantial than just a film. Wish I had a microscope right now!
 

So far I only see it on the surface, but I’ve had the lettuce shielding the tank so I don’t think cyano could grow at the bottom where there is less light. 
 

If I don’t have to treat the tank with an antibiotic, I would prefer not to, but if it is Cyano, I’d rather treat it when it’s small rather than wait for it to spread throughout the tank. 
 

im assuming Erythromycin is safe for snails but so far I haven’t found anything definitive so I’m a bit nervous about it. 

[JoeQ]

On 4/21/2022 at 2:16 PM, AndreaW said:

@JoeQ ~ because of the smell, I am inclined to think it’s more than just bio film/pond scum…? It also seems to be more substantial than just a film. Wish I had a microscope right now!
 

So far I only see it on the surface, but I’ve had the lettuce shielding the tank so I don’t think cyano could grow at the bottom where there is less light. 
 

If I don’t have to treat the tank with an antibiotic, I would prefer not to, but if it is Cyano, I’d rather treat it when it’s small rather than wait for it to spread throughout the tank. 
 

im assuming Erythromycin is safe for snails but so far I haven’t found anything definitive so I’m a bit nervous about it. 

Its a pond scum/bacterial bio film, ive delt with it. Skim the surface (even with a siphon while you water change) and Fix your flow. I eventually got the ehime 350 because I was tired of skimming by siphon durning water changes. 

[AndreaW]

@Fish Folk @Widgets & @JoeQ ~

I went to skim my tank and pulled the lettuce out. Whatever it is stuck to the leaves and there was nothing left on the surface of the water to skim. Water surface is clear of film.

It is stuck to the edges and center of the lettuce and is dark green and there were bubbles in one area where it seemed thicker.

Video: Is This Cyanobacteria? #2

Video: Is This Cyanobacteria? #3

And here's a photo of the water lettuce after I pulled it out and all the *whatever* clung to it. There are no more bubbles in it, but you can see those in video #1 & #2. Other than the smell and bubbles, it seems algae-like and clumps together:

[Widgets]

From the initial video I was thinking it was more a scum coating than cyanobacteria. Your latest videos have me thinking it is cyanobacteria.

[AndreaW]

Since removing the water lettuce a few hours ago, the driftwood and some Java Moss have developed a film with bubbles on it (and this is not in an area above the bubble wand) so I'm thinking this is confirmation that it is Cyanobacteria (and it even looks like maybe a little bit of BBA).  Am I right in my thinking?

Edited April 21, 2022 by AndreaW

[Widgets]

I see the film and BBA on the Java Fern. The film could be early cyanobacteria. 

On the wood, the white film is most likely just the normal biofilm from sugars and such. I've had it form on spider wood when I first put it in the tank. A change in the tank could release more. Was the green algae on the wood before?

[AndreaW]

On 4/21/2022 at 6:10 PM, Widgets said:

I see the film and BBA on the Java Fern. The film could be early cyanobacteria. 

On the wood, the white film is most likely just the normal biofilm from sugars and such. I've had it form on spider wood when I first put it in the tank. A change in the tank could release more. Was the green algae on the wood before?

I do have some biofilm on the wood in other places as well, and the Nerites usually get to it, but they haven't been cleaning the top pieces of driftwood this past week, like they usually do. (Maybe another clue I should have picked up on?)

I noticed a little bit of green on the driftwood once I pulled out the lettuce, but it wasn't noticeable before when it was shaded. Within hours though it started developing the bubbles and more film. I previously had some hair algae in this tank as it's a new setup, but it had already cleared up before the smell started.

[Widgets]

Many times out tanks are trying to tell us something is wrong, but we have to be paying attention and recognize it.

[AndreaW]

On 4/21/2022 at 7:34 PM, Widgets said:

Many times out tanks are trying to tell us something is wrong, but we have to be paying attention and recognize it.

That is too true! 

[AndreaW]

UPDATE: It definitely IS Cyanobacteria and I am treating the tank with Erythomycin which will hopefully knock it out. I removed the water lettuce and then watched the tank for a couple days just to be sure; hopefully I didn't wait too long. I did a light gravel vacuum and cleaned the plant leaves (where most of it was concentrated) and vacuumed that up as well, and did a water change, of course.

[JoeQ]

Thanks for the update, keep in mind to also make adjustments to treat the problem itself, not just the symptoms. Getting more circulation/surface agitation especially in dead spots will go a long way. 

[AndreaW]

@JoeQ ~ Yes, as much as I love the water lettuce, it cuts down on the surface flow too much so I don't think I'll add that back in. I'm working on figuring out my fertilizer dosage to get adequate nutrients in the tank, and I think a combination of those two will help prevent it in the future.

[JoeQ]

On 4/30/2022 at 9:48 AM, AndreaW said:

@JoeQ ~ Yes, as much as I love the water lettuce, it cuts down on the surface flow too much so I don't think I'll add that back in. I'm working on figuring out my fertilizer dosage to get adequate nutrients in the tank, and I think a combination of those two will help prevent it in the future.

With a little enginunity you could probably fashion something to allow you to keep your water lettuce as well as add more current. Maybe a piece of fishing string or air tube skimming just below the surface? 

[Jawjagrrl]

Glad I found this thread - my new 55 setup developed BGA soon after adding some red root floaters I recently got and had quarantined (that tank has the classic presentation of it now). The floaters had a very strong oregano-like smell, now I know. 

I really didn't want to go with maracyn and likely destroy the cycling progress I had already made and opted to try a product that apparently reef keepers have used for years. No antibiotics, no copper, plant and snail and fish safe.

I'm not one to endorse something unless it was truly outstanding - this was in my tank.

Before (4/24):

Product added 4/29, evening. I was expecting it to take at least a week. Same area this morning, 5/2:

Snails are foraging, plants are all fine expect for a few floaters I lost. Small ammonia spike from .25 to .5, so it didn't set me back much at all. Definitely worth a try and easily available of Amazon - I picked up on sale, very reasonable price that treats 300gals, so I'll keep on hand. Brown and green thread algaes have appeared, so things are moving forward!

[AndreaW]

@Jawjagrrl ~ Thanks. I've seen that somewhere before but unfortunately couldn't find much on it when I went looking. Since I've already dosed the Erythromycin, I'll just have to stick it out and remember this but hope I never have to deal with it again! 

[Degenerate]

Interesting. According to one of the top reviews on amazon for UltraLife Blue-Green Slime stain remover, may work by shocking the bacteria with calcium and magnesium[1]. I have an infection in one of my tanks I will have to try that.

1. https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R391CHD8HZLOJ7

[Jawjagrrl]

On 5/3/2022 at 12:19 AM, AndreaW said:

@Jawjagrrl ~ Thanks. I've seen that somewhere before but unfortunately couldn't find much on it when I went looking. Since I've already dosed the Erythromycin, I'll just have to stick it out and remember this but hope I never have to deal with it again! 

I learned about it from the article that @Widgets shared (thank you!!). Once you experience that smell, you never forget, right? 

I put some of contaminated floaters in one of my 5s with fish and a couple started showing signs of illness, so I've had to treat that with maracyn, so there may have been something else also. I've read so much about not really needing to QT or treat plants, but I'm going to be more cautious about any I get direct from a farm/hobbyist from now on.

[AndreaW]

On 5/3/2022 at 6:02 AM, Jawjagrrl said:

I learned about it from the article that @Widgets shared (thank you!!). Once you experience that smell, you never forget, right?

Right! I should have saved those links!

On 5/2/2022 at 11:44 PM, Degenerate said:

may work by shocking the bacteria with calcium and magnesium

This is very interesting. I guess technically the calcium/magnesium might be more beneficial for snails in the tank, long-term, but I wonder what a quick increase like that would do?

I don't know which would be a better solution... Shocking or antibacterial? Ultimately you fix the underlying problem...

Edited May 3, 2022 by AndreaW

[Widgets]

On 5/3/2022 at 1:44 AM, Degenerate said:

Interesting. According to one of the top reviews on amazon for UltraLife Blue-Green Slime stain remover, may work by shocking the bacteria with calcium and magnesium[1]. I have an infection in one of my tanks I will have to try that.

1. https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R391CHD8HZLOJ7

@Jawjagrrl @AndreaW

I had learned about UltraLife Blue-Green Slime Stain Remover from another source. After I used it successfully, I saw the Amazon review about the calcium and magnesium salts. I saw no I'll effects from using it, but was hesitant to suggest it, preferring to let you research and decide which route to take. The article that I linked mentioned a few approaches.