A moment to vent

[Cory]

My advice is, start leaving honest reviews of this business. Facebook, Yelp, Google. If that doesn't get the attention of the company. Even though your emails should have. Those reviews will stand. If they correct everything asap, you can update your reviews to the situation.

As for not having a phone number. I totally understand why someone wants to use one. I also totally get not having one. Its often more difficult to solve a problem over a phone. In this instance, your tank is shattered, the first thing anyone would say is, lets see a picture to understand what we are talking about.

What we found was a phone lead to longer customer service fixes. Average call is like 12 minutes. A customer service rep in email, can handle that same thing in about 3 minutes. They'd already have the proof to submit to the trucking company. Now it's on the company to refund or reship out, should be another 2 minutes to set that up.

This is why we don't ship tanks or fish. There are variables like shipping, that you have to factor in. As a company we have to make it right every time and quickly. This is also why we don't ever preorder. We learned early on, that only leads to disappointing customers. It's one thing to say we think we'll have them in stock on X. Then they go for sale. It's another to take someone's money and shipping, miss the delivery date then say they owe $200 more. That's a no win situation for the company.

A business not having cash isn't the consumer's fault. That's a poorly run business.  If you can't afford to replace a product you sell, you can't afford to sell it in the first place. What was their plan to cover any type of warranty claim? Even a simple chip on the glass, is a replacement on a rimless tank like that. I know because we used to sell lots of rimless tanks and chips were so common it never made us any money.

My other advice is, know that you only have 6 months with most credit cards to file a charge back. My advice would be to keep an eye on this date and if you don't have a brand new tank in your house by that date, charge back. You could also buy another one from them. But unfortunately some companies choose not to do the right thing and then after 6 months you can't prevent it either.

It's unfortunately that you've had this experience. I'd love for you to be able to share which company it was, but instead I encourage you to leave your reviews on their places of business so that everyone can see your experience. I recommend people do this for both good and bad experiences. We all rely on one another to judge how we spend our money.

We don't allow it here for a lot of different reasons. But one important one is to encourage people to do their reviews where reviews are seen by people intending to buy.

 

[quikv6]

Great points on the above, especially in regards to a time frame on credit card dispute Also a very fair perspective on the phone thing, from your business standpoint. I do think there are 2 important points, from a customer standpoint.

1) A phonecall from a customer is on the customers clock. (Provided the business is open.) An email puts the customer at the at the whim of the business, and on the business' clock.

Example: A customer needs help with a purchased Co-op product. They can only email.  Aquarium Co-op is open, but the customer is now on the Co-Ops clock (as opposed to their own) as to when they will get a reply email from customer service w/ an answer/guidance in regards to their inquiry.  Granted, the Co-op is GREAT with fast replies, but it still takes some element of "control" (not the best choice of words) away from the customer. Traditionally/Ethically, I feel that "control" should be with the customer IF the business is open. Also, I can definitively say most small business are not as fast and diligent when it comes to email customer service.

2) Again, ethically (hey...the thread is titled "A moment to vent") I do feel it should be the responsibility of every business to have some form of phone support, so as not to isolate/exclude any population of customers (or potential customers) that may not have internet/technology access, or be able to easily facilitate the use of modern technology, such as the elderly. My mom is older, and doesn't use a computer or email. The phone is really her only feasible option for obtaining help, in any facet.

I realize this is a bit old-fashioned, and I also have to be cognizant of the fact that there are folks here, and everywhere, that don't know what it's like to not have email and the internet as part of their lives. The world is moving, and moving very fast. Not everyone can keep up, and sometimes that isn't necessarily their fault or choice.

To the OP: I hope this didn't derail your thread! Good luck with your situation. I think there have been some great suggestions by members. Good luck!

 

[Torrey]

On 4/15/2022 at 9:38 AM, SJ fishing said:

That was on top of the $200 I paid at time of purchase!   For that much money I thought they were going to carry it in the house lol.  Turns out that was only to get a lift gate.  I won’t even go on about the delivery being 2 hours past the 4 hour window I got, having to take off work early to be there as long as someone to help me unload it.  The truck getting stuck in my yard, needing my tractor and truck to pull it out, the 3 hours fixing the ruts in the yard 

The fact that they charged you an extra $200 is a huge warning flag. I am under the assumption you are here in the States? Based on your chronology of events, and due to statutes of limitations on items sold typically being 30 days in most states, at this point (from a legal standpoint) I would call the company if they have a phone number (record your call) and ask them to break down for you each of the charges, and how long it will take for them to reimburse each charge. Document the phone call, obviously.

Then, I would reach out to the Attorney General for your state, and find out what they recommend for best practice moving forward. Do not include the part where you considered changing your mind, just stick to the facts and the dates.

Do the same for the state where the trucking company is located, as well as the state where the shipper is based (and the package was shipped from). I would also reach out to the maker of the aquarium, and let them know what has happened, as a distributor who is not properly providing good customer service can make their brand look bad. I would reach out to the trucking company, and ask how they intend to make restitution for your yard, and having to pull their truck out with your tractor.

Across the board, I think you have done an admirable job of staying calm. It is incredibly hard to maintain a calm affect when looking at the series of events as an outsider, I know it's even harder when I am the one living through it. I am so sorry this has been such a nightmare for you.

[SJ fishing]

On 4/17/2022 at 1:31 AM, Torrey said:

The fact that they charged you an extra $200 is a huge warning flag. I am under the assumption you are here in the States? Based on your chronology of events, and due to statutes of limitations on items sold typically being 30 days in most states, at this point (from a legal standpoint) I would call the company if they have a phone number (record your call) and ask them to break down for you each of the charges, and how long it will take for them to reimburse each charge. Document the phone call, obviously.

Then, I would reach out to the Attorney General for your state, and find out what they recommend for best practice moving forward. Do not include the part where you considered changing your mind, just stick to the facts and the dates.

Do the same for the state where the trucking company is located, as well as the state where the shipper is based (and the package was shipped from). I would also reach out to the maker of the aquarium, and let them know what has happened, as a distributor who is not properly providing good customer service can make their brand look bad. I would reach out to the trucking company, and ask how they intend to make restitution for your yard, and having to pull their truck out with your tractor.

Across the board, I think you have done an admirable job of staying calm. It is incredibly hard to maintain a calm affect when looking at the series of events as an outsider, I know it's even harder when I am the one living through it. I am so sorry this has been such a nightmare for you.

Yes, I’m in the states.   I set Monday as my deadline, if I don’t get at least a response from them I’m going to start taking actions.   To me, considering what’s happened, for them to not have responded to my email from Wednesday is wholly unacceptable.  
 

I hadn’t thought about advising the manufacturer of what’s happened, that’s a good thought. 
 

[Jawjagrrl]

On 4/16/2022 at 5:41 PM, quikv6 said:

Perhaps I am a dinosaur....okay....I know I am, but I truly feel that alot of things can be resolved either face to face or on the phone with a human, rather than through back-and-forth emails where context and inflection are harder to grasp, and can easily be misinterpreted.

Sometimes a genuine "We're sorry, and we're going to make this right by you...." from an honest employee can do WONDERS.

I must be a dinosaur too then 🙂 and I agree a phone call (even in this day and age) is often what cuts through the nonverbal clutter and can make a difference. Especially if the business contact has good verbal skills.

When I worked in the next office over from my husband I heard ALL those calls. I was always really impressed at his ability to diffuse anger and frustration (patience isn't common in restaurant owners either) and replace it with good will and trust that things would be made right. I used to jokingly call it "giving good phone" but only because I was never able to do it as gracefully. There might not be such a person at this company, but then again... there might be.

[gardenman]

Using every method available to reach out to a company is smart. It's very easy for an overworked CSR to delete emails in a click of a button. Some companies use spam filters that can delete legitimate emails also. Social media posts tend to live on and are harder to delete. Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter are good places to look for the company and post the photos and details of what happened. Once posted, those posts tend to remain and serve as a warning for others.

Back to the cash on hand issue, an eighty-gallon rimless, ADA certified tank typically retails for over a thousand dollars. When you add in the shipping cost and whatnots, you're getting closer to $1,500-$2,000 or possibly more in total costs. When I worked as a CSR, I was able to wipe out up to $75 in costs. Up to $100 had to go to my supervisor. Over $100 had to go to the company's CAP team. The CAP team would take a week or more to decide whether to pay or not.

I would bet a payback of nearly $2,000 would have to go pretty far up the chain of command to get approved. I'm betting a $2,000 order reimbursement from the Coop couldn't be approved by a frontline CSR. It would need to go pretty far up the chain of command before it would be approved. Replacing a plant or two is one thing. When you get up into more money, it's another.

And CAP teams or the equivalent aren't always sane. One of my first calls as a CSR was from a customer who'd called to have Internet connected (a resident install, or RI order) on January 2nd. On January fourth, a tech went out, found out there were no ports available and suggested the customer cancel the order and try a different company. The customer called us later on the fourth and cancelled the order. In February he got a job offer in San Francisco and left the area. In March, for reasons unknown, a tech saw that a port was opened and installed the Internet at his old apartment and left the modem on the steps of his old apartment. In May the customer got an email advising him that he owed us over $300 and if he didn't pay, his service would be disconnected. When he called, he was very confused. I read everything and was able to wipe out most of the charges, but the $149 install fee was over the threshold either I or my super could erase. I submitted the claim to the CAP team. A week later they ruled that the charge was legitimate as the internet was installed (even though his order had been cancelled and everything was fully documented) and they also reinstated the modem delivery fee, the late fees, and the internet disconnect fee as it was against company policy to waive those fees. I then had the joy of calling the customer back and informing him that he "only" owed us nearly $200 for a service he never got, that he'd cancelled and shouldn't have been charged anything for. Those are fun calls to make.

In another case I had a customer who'd last been our customer in 2010 find out in a credit check that they owed us $516 and had no idea why. It turns out that in 2012 the husband had called the "phone company" (unfortunately for him, he called us instead of his then current phone company) to see if he had an unlisted number. The CSR who took the call found his old records from 2010 and said, "No. You don't have an unlisted number." Well, duh! He had no active service with us. He said he wanted an unlisted number, so she signed him up for an unlisted number on his old account using his old address and contact information, all of which was then outdated. For five years we billed him for an unlisted number that he didn't have, we couldn't provide (he lived outside our service area) and that should never have happened. Since the bill was over the $100 threshold it had to go to the CAP team. The CAP team responded and agreed that the entire bill was erroneous, but company policy was to not correct bills more than six months in the past and not to waive late fees so they were deducting $30 (the $5 a month fee for an unlisted number) for the last six months and the customer would now only owe us $486 instead of $516. Yeah. Another real fun phone call to make to a customer.

What I'd advise a customer in those cases was to go over the head of the CSRs/CAP team. Reach out to the higher ups. Find the owner/CEO and reach out directly to them through any and every means possible (snail mail, email, social media). If all else fails, file a claim in small claims court. The company I worked for would never dispute a small claims court filing and the customer would win every time, but you had to go through the hassle of filing to win.

[SJ fishing]

Wishing I had done a little more research on this company before I ordered, shame on me for not doing due diligence.  Screen shot of a review on their Facebook, and not the only one like this.  
 

[quikv6]

@SJ fishing Did you ever try calling them throughout the course of this problem? If so, did they attempt to handle this issue any differently over the phone?

[SJ fishing]

On 4/17/2022 at 3:30 PM, quikv6 said:

@SJ fishing Did you ever try calling them throughout the course of this problem? If so, did they attempt to handle this issue any differently over the phone?

I didn’t.  When I placed the order I got this message, and when I went to the website to get a phone number they refer you a number to text 

[Torrey]

I asked a couple of different folx for recommendations on how to handle this.

If you bank with Navy Federal, their recommendation is take all your documentation tot eh bank and have all charges reversed or take it to small claims if you are with another bank that doesn't reverse charges as easily.

[gardenman]

Most bad companies won't fight you in small claims court, they don't want to have to say under oath if they did or didn't cheat you, so you get an automatic win, but there are hassles and fees associated with the win. Still, if you can't get a result any other way, it's a viable option. 

[Tihshho]

Sorry to hear about your struggles with this 😞

Ordering tanks online is always a challenge, heck ordering a tank (rimless) through a LFS is always a risk. When I was after my frag tank it took months upon months to get as they kept showing up to the LFS cracked. You would think manufacturers like ADA would put large tanks like this in a crate. If you're already paying for the ADA branded product most of us would be more than happy to pay the little bit extra to know the tank will be showing up solid and ready to setup.