A Heavy Flow Aquarium Design for Breeding Gold Nugget Plecos

[Fish Folk]

Corresponding with @Odd Duck about the possibility of breeding Gold Nugget Plecos, I went down a NERM-hole today, and began imagining what a proper breeding setup might look like.

They are notoriously "impossible" to breed in captivity. That is what most inspires me to want to try!

Another contact had shared this YouTube short from Oliver Knott:

Which got me thinking about how to majorly boost flow. So I decided to sketch something up. I'm imagining maybe a 55 gal tank here (dimensions look more like a 40 gal breeder) but a 75 gal would be fine too. For HOB filters on the side, I am imagining something like 2x Tidal 110 for TONS of flow. I'm also thinking of the larger, powerful HYDOR Koralia pumps.

So in photos, from empty tank to set-up...

The goal is a very sloshy tank. Of course heating elements could be added along the back. Yes, this could probably be done with canister filters too. As for greens, I think that roots reaching in along the back from a strategically selected plant tray set up behind on a shelf would be a good way to deal with nitrate buildup.

What do you all think? Any suggestions? Improvements? Lets group-source this thing, and break the internet by breeding Gold Nugget Plecos here on the Forum!

Here is an in situ video showing them being caught from river rapids...

Some keys: WARM (ca. 87-degrees), oxygen rich -- maybe add a bubble bar underneath the powerheads in tank set up. Lots of proper food needed.

Edited April 10, 2022 by Fish Folk

[Johannes]

I am hoping to get a gold nugget group of 6 to 8 individuals for my 90 gallon tank this is going to be a mix of what i think are cool fish but i am hoping to grow some out. The filter is a fluval 306 canister and two airstones and i may be adding a wavemaker, i will not be getting the gold nuggets in quite while because of hrmmm.....  budget of a twelve year old and i want to make sure all the other fish are settled in. Current stocking: seven corydoras cw 023, one lone pineapple apisto female, and a pair of albino bnps. 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 4/10/2022 at 10:05 AM, Fish Folk said:

First off, I love this project!  I know squat about plecos (and I mean pretty much all of them).  But I've been planning a similar tank for some gobies in a 33L, I have yet to buy.  My plan is much like yours above, but differs in some significant ways.  I'll describe my plans just in case any of the differences might be useful to you.  They might not.  But you never know.

I'll be doing the same basic idea of pulling the water from one side of the tank and returning it to the other.  I will also be looking to do two inlets and outlets  So far, so similar.  I plan to also do two cross over pieces on the bottom to connect the draw tubes.  This should add both stability to the structure and better equalize the flow across the depth of the tank.

I'm also planning on trying to use air to power it with JetLifter tubes.  I'm not sure that will be enough flow for your purposes though.  But with the lift tubes, it means I need another source of filtration.  My plan is to have a matten filter wall at the end with the intakes behind it.  This should also help even the flow, protect fry from being sucked into the intakes, and provide the filtration I would otherwise be missing. 

Otherwise, it's a pretty similar design to yours.  If you like the matten idea (great fry protection for your purposes), you could hook up powerheads as the source of the flow and size them to your needs.  Regardless of what your final design is, I'm going to be following this build closely.  I imagine I'll learn loads I can use when I get around to my build. 

[Ken Burke]

On 4/10/2022 at 10:05 AM, Fish Folk said:

Corresponding with @Odd Duck about the possibility of breeding Gold Nugget Plecos, I went down a NERM-hole today, and began imagining what a proper breeding setup might look like.

They are notoriously "impossible" to breed in captivity. That is what most inspires me to want to try!

Another contact had shared this YouTube short from Oliver Knott:

Which got me thinking about how to majorly boost flow. So I decided to sketch something up. I'm imagining maybe a 55 gal tank here (dimensions look more like a 40 gal breeder) but a 75 gal would be fine too. For HOB filters on the side, I am imagining something like 2x Tidal 110 for TONS of flow. I'm also thinking of the larger, powerful HYDOR Koralia pumps.

So in photos, from empty tank to set-up...

The goal is a very sloshy tank. Of course heating elements could be added along the back. Yes, this could probably be done with canister filters too. As for greens, I think that roots reaching in along the back from a strategically selected plant tray set up behind on a shelf would be a good way to deal with nitrate buildup.

What do you all think? Any suggestions? Improvements? Lets group-source this thing, and break the internet by breeding Gold Nugget Plecos here on the Forum!

Here is an in situ video showing them being caught from river rapids...

Some keys: WARM (ca. 87-degrees), oxygen rich -- maybe add a bubble bar underneath the powerheads in tank set up. Lots of proper food needed.

Given the use of tidal 110s, bubble bar might be over kill.  Won’t hurt, but it’s contribution is negligible. 

The tanks will need more water for the pump to work.  U can still get the waterfall effect, but the impeller must be in the water.

As a thought, use only one tidal, and ditch the intake extension on the remaining 110.  Instead use an ACO power heads with a pre filter on the intake side of the tank, and run the output back to the tidal side.  On the output, you can build a spray bars ( one low, about 1/4 up the tank, and  one high, about 3/4 up the tank) to spread the flow across the width of the tank.  You still get the rapid flow, but save a tidal 110.

 

 

 

u use the ACO power head, you can attach hoses to draw the water from the far side of the tank (like the tidal).  

 

[Fish Folk]

On 4/10/2022 at 1:32 PM, Ken Burke said:

Given the use of tidal 110s, bubble bar might be over kill.  Won’t hurt, but it’s contribution is negligible. 

The tanks will need more water for the pump to work.  U can still get the waterfall effect, but the impeller must be in the water.

As a thought, use only one tidal, and ditch the intake extension on the remaining 110.  Instead use an ACO power heads with a pre filter on the intake side of the tank, and run the output back to the tidal side.  On the output, you can build a spray bars ( one low, about 1/4 up the tank, and  one high, about 3/4 up the tank) to spread the flow across the width of the tank.  You still get the rapid flow, but save a tidal 110.

 

 

 

u use the ACO power head, you can attach hoses to draw the water from the far side of the tank (like the tidal).  

 

Yes! Thanks. Your'e right, the height of the impeller would be an impediment. Don't know what I was thinking!

[Ken Burke]

@Fish Folk @Odd Duck, I was reflecting on this while my wife and I were at the grocery store.

Let’s be honest, it does not take a huge anoint of brain power to push a buggy around and throw out the occasional “yes Dear” and the random “no thank you”. Usually works well, but last week she sent me alone.  Everyone was looking at me all strange like as a pushed an empty shopping cart around talking to myself before checking out with a bag of chips, a box of slim Jim’s, and 8 cowboy tomahawk steaks. 
 

anyhow, if you are using 2 ACO power filters with sponge filters, you really don’t need the Tidal 110 at all.  Especially if you use one of the spray bars just above the waterline.

[Fish Folk]

On 4/10/2022 at 4:08 PM, Ken Burke said:

@Fish Folk @Odd Duck, I was reflecting on this while my wife and I were at the grocery store.

Let’s be honest, it does not take a huge anoint of brain power to push a buggy around and throw out the occasional “yes Dear” and the random “no thank you”. Usually works well, but last week she sent me alone.  Everyone was looking at me all strange like as a pushed an empty shopping cart around talking to myself before checking out with a bag of chips, a box of slim Jim’s, and 8 cowboy tomahawk steaks. 
 

anyhow, if you are using 2 ACO power filters with sponge filters, you really don’t need the Tidal 110 at all.  Especially if you use one of the spray bars just above the waterline.

Can you find a video of one of those in action?

[Ken Burke]

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/collections/equipment/products/aquarium-co-op-power-head
 

yup.🥸

Look under product videos

 

[Widgets]

Here is another take on the plumbing using two powerheads to provide linear flow for a river tank.

https://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/features/the-secret-to-setting-up-a-better-river-aquarium/

@Ken Burke We want a video of the solo shopping trip.

Edited April 10, 2022 by Widgets
Stupid typos

[Ken Burke]

That is real close to what I was suggesting!  But backwards.  

[Ken Burke]

On 4/10/2022 at 3:18 PM, Widgets said:

Here is another take on the plumbing using two powerheads to provide linear flow fir a river tank.

https://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/features/the-secret-to-setting-up-a-better-river-aquarium/

@Ken Burke We want a video of the solo shopping trip.

Sorry, I called the store and had them burn the security feed.  They were happy to oblige cause they did not want video of an old fart wandering the store wearing  a ear muffs, Speedo and fishnet shirt. Said something about not being Walmart 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Here’s another build made for loaches like the Hillstream loaches.  https://www.loaches.com/articles/river-tank-manifold-design
 

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/10/2022 at 8:05 AM, Fish Folk said:

Which got me thinking about how to majorly boost flow. So I decided to sketch something up. I'm imagining maybe a 55 gal tank here (dimensions look more like a 40 gal breeder) but a 75 gal would be fine too. For HOB filters on the side, I am imagining something like 2x Tidal 110 for TONS of flow. I'm also thinking of the larger, powerful HYDOR Koralia pumps.

Just curious with regard to your experience with a side-mount setup.

Have you ever ran filters on the side of the tank so they run the long direction? Have you used tidals specifically before?

SO. I would offer a few very specific suggestions based on what I have setup on my side and the extremely high flow stuff I've done. I think it makes a lot of sense to take a step back and break down the major issue before you dive into fine details.

[Fish Folk]

On 4/10/2022 at 9:27 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I would offer a few very specific suggestions based on what I have setup on my side and the extremely high flow stuff I've done. I think it makes a lot of sense to take a step back and break down the major issue before you dive into fine details.

I'd love to hear! All I've ever done for flow is add powerheads, and occasionally an HOB -- but typically, that just pushes water down rather than out across.

I think that what I'd love to achieve is something like the opening video from Oliver Knott. I'd love a sequence that really simulates the heavy flow of a river.

My basic reasoning is that it _seems_ like these Gold Nugget Plecos thrive and multiply in heavy, heavy flow.

Any ideas?

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/10/2022 at 6:46 PM, Fish Folk said:

My basic reasoning is that it _seems_ like these Gold Nugget Plecos thrive and multiply in heavy, heavy flow.

Any ideas?

for sure.

I think you are stuck with running one of the 110s, two just wont fit unless you go with a bigger tank.  I have a 75 and two tidal 75s, I'll drop a picture in with a test fit to give you the visual idea as well. (didn't fit)

The tidals are notoriously difficult to get functioning perfectly because of the amount of bypass. This isn't a flaw long term, but it's just something I would highly encourage you to get things sealed up a bit (video below) and find some black silicon, usually from marineland or the hardware store, that can be used to seal the filter and make it work a lot better.  What you want is for the downpipe to actually function properly (it barely works) and for the skimmer and all of the other holes to be removed.  You can also utilize the ziss bubble bios to encourage extremely high oxygenation as well as sponges if you wish to go that route.
 

 

On 4/10/2022 at 6:46 PM, Fish Folk said:

All I've ever done for flow is add powerheads, and occasionally an HOB -- but typically, that just pushes water down rather than out across.

Because of how the output on the tidals is designed, they push flow across the water hard. It also means they push water down harder than most other HoBs by comparison.  The flow is purposefully pushed across the top of the water.

If you want to go the route of running the under-substrate PVC system, I think you can, but you're going to want to reply only on a strong powerhead and a sponge and the additional HoB won't be required.

You can perform this same type of setup with a 20L, 40B, 55G, or anything else with something you have on hand. Instead of mounting the filter on the back of the tank (short flow, the output goes towards the bottom of the tank pretty hard), you move the filter to the side and now you're running the length of the tank. this does NOT mean that you don't have good flow to the bottom of the substrate, but it means that you're modifying the flow direction and pattern for the water.  Racheal O'leary has a very good setup for her hillstream loaches and that's the one I would point anyone towards for a "river setup".  That being said, if the idea is to have high oxygenation and high flow, I would be willing to bet you just need to change the HoB placement (back vs. side) and it's more than sufficient if you oversize the pump itself.  The tidal's add their own little mix on the issue because it is one of the best (I'd say it is) HoB pump you can purchase, as long as you fix the flaws, you're solid and good to go.
 

 

Example of the 75G with the two Tidal 75s


You also have a trim issue (it's been documented before on the aquaclears, you just dremel it or sand it back ever so slightly and you're fine.

This is what I would imagine if you want to use a HoB to achieve the flow:

[Fish Folk]

@nabokovfan87 That's great help! Thanks much. If I was setting this up myself right now, I'd definitely want to test all of these ideas out. At present, I'm focussed on other projects. I'd love to try a high flow set up though.

I'm wondering what you'd think of something like this? (substrate / hardscape added, of course)

 

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/10/2022 at 8:18 PM, Fish Folk said:

I'm wondering what you'd think of something like this? (substrate / hardscape added, of course)

I'd run 3. And I'd run longer uplift tubes. I'd also try to have some sort of a spray bar or output nozzle setup to give the flow some width.

Rachel did hers with a FX filter. Seems like just a much easier setup than all of these different sponges to maintain.

[Fish Folk]

On 4/10/2022 at 11:26 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I'd run 3. And I'd run longer uplift tubes. I'd also try to have some sort of a spray bar or output nozzle setup to give the flow some width.

Rachel did hers with a FX filter. Seems like just a much easier setup than all of these different sponges to maintain.

So please forgive my ignorance . . . what's a "spray bar"?

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/10/2022 at 8:18 PM, Fish Folk said:

. At present, I'm focussed on other projects. I'd love to try a high flow set up though.

I had a 55 with side mount and a 29G with a similar setup and it was nice. I really wish they made lids for side mounted HoBs

On 4/10/2022 at 8:27 PM, Fish Folk said:

what's a "spray bar"?

Dean has one he made. Let me grab the vid

 

I think eheim and fluval sell kits as well.

[Fish Folk]

On 4/10/2022 at 11:28 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I had a 55 with side mount and a 29G with a similar setup and it was nice. I really wish they made lids for side mounted HoBs

Dean has one he made. Let me grab the vid

 

I think eheim and fluval sell kits as well.

Thank you much! That's a brilliant little DIY. Makes sense.

So are you imagining a powerhead leading up to a spray bar? (sorry if you've just said that)

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/10/2022 at 8:39 PM, Fish Folk said:

So are you imagining a powerhead leading up to a spray bar? (sorry if you've just said that)

Yeah basically if that's the way you want to run it. You can run 1 bar and have all 3 flow in or you can have 3 and have them all impact aeration and direction. You can have 2-3 smaller spraybars or align them at different angles as well. One can shoot straight across. One above the water ever so slightly, etc.

[Ken Burke]

On 4/10/2022 at 10:44 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Yeah basically if that's the way you want to run it. You can run 1 bar and have all 3 flow in or you can have 3 and have them all impact aeration and direction. You can have 2-3 smaller spraybars or align them at different angles as well. One can shoot straight across. One above the water ever so slightly, etc.

See that’s what I’ve been trying to say!  
 

You can also have one above the waterline acting like a waterfall

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/10/2022 at 8:48 PM, Ken Burke said:

You can also have one above the waterline acting like a waterfall

Yeah if just depends if you're running a lid or splashing or what the full plan is. I definitely wouldn't waterfall a HoB pump. You just have to make sure the pump has enough pressure to get the water to the height long term (and however far you want it to spray across). If you take dean's mod and cut a slice in the pipe, you'll get a waterfall.

Edited April 11, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Ken Burke]

With the ACO power heads you could route the across the tank to the spray bars

On 4/10/2022 at 10:49 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Yeah if just depends if you're running a lid or splashing or what the full plan is. I definitely wouldn't waterfall a HoB pump. You just have to make sure the pump has enough pressure to get the water to the height long term (and however far you want it to spray across). If you take dean's mod and cut a slice in the pipe, you'll get a waterfall.

Right!

 

[Fish Folk]

On 4/10/2022 at 11:48 PM, Ken Burke said:

See that’s what I’ve been trying to say!  
 

You can also have one above the waterline acting like a waterfall

(ORD) 🤩