10 gallon set up

[Bailey]

Hello! I am setting up a 10 gallon tank, and I am very new to the hobby. I have only kept cherry shrimp and bettas in the past (Currently have a 3 gallon shrimp tank and a 5 gallon with a betta and mystery snail). The tank is ready for fish but I am having trouble deciding what to stock it with (I do not have space for a bigger tank, just an FYI). It is fully planted and heated, cycled, has been set up for about 5 weeks now, currently just housing two mystery snails to take care of some of the algae growth on the plants and wood (one will be adopted by someone once I start to add fish). My water is exceptionally hard (I don't really understand what that means but I know this from using test strips). My pH is around 7-7.4, temp is around 80, there is driftwood and a few rocks in the tank and about 7-8 plant varieties as of now. 
I was planning on adding some cherry shrimp, but they're not a necessity.  
I was thinking of doing endlers or CPDs...but I guess I'm looking for suggestions and maybe advice? Are either of these suitable for those parameters? I have researched both but I am looking for more real life advice from people that have owned them. Which is more beginner friendly, if either?

Thanks!  

[Fish Folk]

Wow! For a beginner, you’re off to a well-informed start.

Every aquarist has a different view of how to populate an aquarium. Since you’ve got hard water, you might consider investing in some beautiful guppies. Get two males and four females from the same line, and you’ll have a tank full of babies before you know what happened.

Forum guidelines prohibit us from selling on the forum or from naming aquarium fish sellers apart from AquaHuna. But (without saying where from) these are all guppy lines available that you could order in the mail delivered to your door today…

 

 

[Patrick_G]

I’d want some Corydoras on the bottom and some Otocinclus to help with algae cleanup. If you went for very small Corydoras like Habrosus or Pygmy you could fit in 5-6 and still have room for some nice Livebearers like Endlers or Guppies. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

I have CPDs, Endlers and Guppies. The last 2 are in a tank together. My tanks are low tech, unheated and planted. I have hard water but not off the charts. Both the tanks I have with the above mentioned are small.

The Guppies/Endlers in a Fluval Flex 9 (with Ember Tetras, 1x Hillstream and a Nerite). This is a fun tank to watch- the Guppies/Enders NON stop. All the ones I have are distinct individuals (all different patterns and colors). They are all males. I keep a close eye on chronic aggression but I haven't had that issue- there are lots of places to hide with plants and sculptures in the tank. The guppies/endlers come to the front of the tank any time I come by and watch (the Ember Tetras do too) and they interact with me when I go hands in the tank to clean. I'd highly recommend this kind of combination for a tank you want a lot of action in. 

My CPDs are in a 4.12 gallon Aquatop low iron glass rimless cube. There are 9 adults and recently 1 fry! I don't know what other peoples' experience with them is but mine will dart for cover every time I walk by. If I want to watch them I sit motionless in front of the tank and they eventually come out and do their thing. They are beautiful fish their red really pops but they're a little camouflage on dark substrates so just something to think about. I wouldn't change the species in this tank- they are great fish- and perfect for this tank. It just to me depends on what you want out of the fish in your tank. 

Edited April 5, 2022 by xXInkedPhoenixX
Typos are lame

[nabokovfan87]

I would lean towards a CPD tank just for the sake of not having to deal with new fry every month.

Once you figure out the "focus" you can even have a ram or something else as a centerpiece, shrimp as you mentioned, corys, and other things to bring a bit more life to the tank.  10G is a pretty small box, and it's just the type of thing where you can take that footprint and get a taller tank with more volume or something, eventually, if that becomes what you wish to do. You mentioned you don't have room for something like a 20L or 29G which I totally understand.

Take it slow, pick your one fish species and let the plants develop and get settled in, then you can pick and choose what else fits the tank when you see it start to gain some vibrancy.

Between the species you mentioned, CPDs are pretty fun. Endlers also can be and also have a bit different personality. It's just between what you want specifically. Pull up a youtube video of someone with a tank of them and watch each one and see what grabs your attention. why you get drawn into that specific one.

[Bailey]

On 4/5/2022 at 4:36 PM, Patrick_G said:

I’d want some Corydoras on the bottom and some Otocinclus to help with algae cleanup. If you went for very small Corydoras like Habrosus or Pygmy you could fit in 5-6 and still have room for some nice Livebearers like Endlers or Guppies. 

I was looking into corys, I really like both pygmy and salt n pepper, but I was reading that corys need sand? I have fine gravel but not sand...is that a problem? I had read that pygmy corys tend to occupy both the middle and bottom, would that be a problem with guppies/endlers occupying similar space? Would I do both corys and otocinclus, and how many? I want to make sure everyone is as happy as possible. Sorry for all the questions, thank you!

On 4/5/2022 at 8:34 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I would lean towards a CPD tank just for the sake of not having to deal with new fry every month.

Once you figure out the "focus" you can even have a ram or something else as a centerpiece, shrimp as you mentioned, corys, and other things to bring a bit more life to the tank.  10G is a pretty small box, and it's just the type of thing where you can take that footprint and get a taller tank with more volume or something, eventually, if that becomes what you wish to do. You mentioned you don't have room for something like a 20L or 29G which I totally understand.

Take it slow, pick your one fish species and let the plants develop and get settled in, then you can pick and choose what else fits the tank when you see it start to gain some vibrancy.

Between the species you mentioned, CPDs are pretty fun. Endlers also can be and also have a bit different personality. It's just between what you want specifically. Pull up a youtube video of someone with a tank of them and watch each one and see what grabs your attention. why you get drawn into that specific one.

Thank you! I really appreciate the input. Im afraid of overstocking, but if I can do more than one fish species, that would be the ultimate goal. I love CPD's, they're what I was planning on getting in the first place, but one of my local fish stores has some absolutely stunning endlers, and I always have to watch them when I go in there, so now I'm on the fence lol 

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/5/2022 at 5:49 PM, Bailey said:

I was looking into corys, I really like both pygmy and salt n pepper, but I was reading that corys need sand? I have fine gravel but not sand...is that a problem? I had read that pygmy corys tend to occupy both the middle and bottom, would that be a problem with guppies/endlers occupying similar space? Would I do both corys and otocinclus, and how many? I want to make sure everyone is as happy as possible. Sorry for all the questions, thank you!

The Corys don't need sand. They simply need something that isn't extremely sharp but if there is any issues you will be able to add some bacterial meds. I've had mine on sand, gravel, pebbles, etc. The only thing I would avoid is something extremely sharp. They like to dig around, as most bottom feeder fish do.

You would only need 1 oto and you can also do amano shrimp (in addition). Corys I would start with 3-4 at most. You'll very likely end up with more. Corys and basically anything mentioned above in the thread will all be compatible. Corys get along with everyone and will hide out if they really feel a need to in your driftwood.

Pygmy cories will swim around mid water and interact with other fish. Pretty much every other species of Cory will stick to the bottom and enjoy it very much.

You can absolutely stock both the pygmy and the salt and pepper too.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

I would never recommend only 1 Oto, they are shoaling fish. Like Cory they are best kept in groups and are such low bioloads that a small group is not an issue. 

I have about 50 in a 10 gallon and never have a parameter issue.

Edited April 6, 2022 by xXInkedPhoenixX
Typos are lame

[Fish Folk]

On 4/5/2022 at 8:49 PM, Bailey said:

I was looking into corys, I really like both pygmy and salt n pepper, but I was reading that corys need sand? I have fine gravel but not sand...is that a problem? I had read that pygmy corys tend to occupy both the middle and bottom, would that be a problem with guppies/endlers occupying similar space? Would I do both corys and otocinclus, and how many? I want to make sure everyone is as happy as possible. Sorry for all the questions, thank you!

They'd be alright with your substrate. Sand may be preferred by some aquarists, but in the wild, they're not just on sand at all. They'll all get along alright. As @nabokovfan87 says, with Guppies, you'll be seeing loads of more fry. That's for sure! Here's a couple 10 gallon stocking videos of ours from the years past . . .

Platys:

Mollys:

 

 

[Mahi27]

Happy for you! Congrats on your new tank!

You can definitely have cherry shrimp in there with both of the fish types you've named. As far as the choice between CPDs and Endlers.......I would ask myself, do I want a more introverted, darty little shoaler with a striking and uncommon beauty (I know CPDs are common in the hobby but imo their beauty is uncommon), or do I want an outgoing, very personable, brightly colored, rapidly reproducing group of fish that will really provide a lot of excitement?

I find CPDs really nice for low-light, moody, subdued tanks with buce and crypts and stuff like that...idk, something about how they swim and hide between foliage just matches that vibe for me. Endlers are awesome and active and cute and come in really amazing patterns.

[Patrick_G]

I have Pygmy Corydoras on Eco complete, I got them before I learned the advice to put them on sand. Their barbels are intact and they’re plump and happy after almost two years.  At first they would swim around the middle and upper water column but now they’re exclusively on the bottom, at least during the day. Who knows what happens when I go to bed! 😁

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/5/2022 at 7:25 PM, Patrick_G said:

I have Pygmy Corydoras on Eco complete, I got them before I learned the advice to put them on sand. Their barbels are intact and they’re plump and happy after almost two years

I've had Cory's on sand, the "fine gravel sand" from big box stores, on normal box store gravel, stratum, and now they are on seachem substrate. They are perfectly fine and content in basically everything labeled as "aquarium substrate". The only thing I would avoid is if you're going to home Depot or something trying to find something you saw in a YouTube video and you might end up with poor quality substrate that have micro particles of glass or metal (i.e. play sand or blasting sand) or some of the gardening rocks they sell that aren't really as smooth to protect the fish.

Pretty much anything you'd normally use, should be "fine".

[drewzero1]

I had my white cloud minnow colony in a 10 gallon for the last few years, they breed every now and then but not like livebearers. Definitely recommend for a no-heater tank.

Now that I've moved the minnows on to my 20L, I've been considering stocking the (now heated) 10 with some kind of small rasboras (porkchop? chili?) and one of the smaller gouramis (probably a honey). Not sure yet, but it's an idea and it sounds like it's been done before.

I've had pygmy cories and they are adorable whenever they come out of hiding-- I had mine on black sand so they were pretty much impossible to see unless they were out exploring. I may have to get some of those again.

[Guppysnail]

I started my CPD colonies in a 10 with cherry shrimp and 2 mystery snails. That was such a delightful tank to watch and super easy maintenance as well. They are not livebearers like endlers so you will not risk overpopulation or rehoming fry issues. They are super easy to hatch and raise  in a small container 3 liter rubber made container with a sponge if you ever want more or want to raise a more controlled number of fry.  I love them so much I now have 2 colonies. The antics are wonderful it’s a soap opera in a box 🥰

[Bailey]

On 4/5/2022 at 8:59 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

The Corys don't need sand. They simply need something that isn't extremely sharp but if there is any issues you will be able to add some bacterial meds. I've had mine on sand, gravel, pebbles, etc. The only thing I would avoid is something extremely sharp. They like to dig around, as most bottom feeder fish do.

You would only need 1 oto and you can also do amano shrimp (in addition). Corys I would start with 3-4 at most. You'll very likely end up with more. Corys and basically anything mentioned above in the thread will all be compatible. Corys get along with everyone and will hide out if they really feel a need to in your driftwood.

Pygmy cories will swim around mid water and interact with other fish. Pretty much every other species of Cory will stick to the bottom and enjoy it very much.

You can absolutely stock both the pygmy and the salt and pepper too.

So you think it would be ok to start with 4-5 salt and pepper corys and they would be OK with either endlers or CPDs? That would be ideal for me! 

[Mahi27]

On 4/5/2022 at 11:16 PM, drewzero1 said:

I had my white cloud minnow colony in a 10 gallon for the last few years, they breed every now and then but not like livebearers. Definitely recommend for a no-heater tank.

Now that I've moved the minnows on to my 20L, I've been considering stocking the (now heated) 10 with some kind of small rasboras (porkchop? chili?) and one of the smaller gouramis (probably a honey). Not sure yet, but it's an idea and it sounds like it's been done before.

I've had pygmy cories and they are adorable whenever they come out of hiding-- I had mine on black sand so they were pretty much impossible to see unless they were out exploring. I may have to get some of those again.

A planted 10gal with chili rasboras and a gold honey gourami would look soooooooo nice. 

[josephnoctum]

I've been using this Aqadvisor "stocking calculator" for a while now and I think it's helped me in figuring out stocking for tanks. It's by no means complete and I still do more research on the species I pick out and ask questions in the community like this but I've found it a helpful tool and I usually use it to stock about 75% of the tanks capacity and make sure I'm over on the "needed filtration". Thats mostly because I tend to try and under stock my aquariums. 

http://aqadvisor.com/AqAdvisor.php

Anyone else have any experience or thoughts on this? I'd be curious if other experience fish keepers thought this calculator was way off. 

Edited April 6, 2022 by josephnoctum
clarity

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/6/2022 at 4:39 AM, Bailey said:

So you think it would be ok to start with 4-5 salt and pepper corys and they would be OK with either endlers or CPDs? That would be ideal for me! 

Yes all of those will work as well as the pygmy cories. I'd definitely start with 3. Eventually you'll need a 20G to replace the 10.

On 4/6/2022 at 10:22 AM, josephnoctum said:

Anyone else have any experience or thoughts on this? I'd be curious if other experience fish keepers thought this calculator was way off. 

It's a very good tool. I appreciate the summary it generates. As always, I'd lean towards less fish and then see how the tank develops over time. Especially if you're running just one species. If you want to have say 5 Corys see how 3 do and some species will end up having fry. Just be aware of that, that's all.

Edited April 6, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[PineSong]

On 4/5/2022 at 8:49 PM, Bailey said:

 I love CPD's, they're what I was planning on getting in the first place, but one of my local fish stores has some absolutely stunning endlers, and I always have to watch them when I go in there, so now I'm on the fence lol 

If it helps, I have lots of endlers in an all male guppy/endler setup and the endlers are very peaceful. They 'display' for each other but do not harass each other or anybody else. Male guppies, on the other hand, are a total destroyer of a "zen" tank vibe and harass other fish and each other. If you only buy male endlers you will not be faced with fry.

[drewzero1]

On 4/6/2022 at 12:22 PM, josephnoctum said:

I've been using this Aqadvisor "stocking calculator" for a while now and I think it's helped me in figuring out stocking for tanks. It's by no means complete and I still do more research on the species I pick out and ask questions in the community like this but I've found it a helpful tool and I usually use it to stock about 75% of the tanks capacity and make sure I'm over on the "needed filtration". Thats mostly because I tend to try and under stock my aquariums. 

http://aqadvisor.com/AqAdvisor.php

Anyone else have any experience or thoughts on this? I'd be curious if other experience fish keepers thought this calculator was way off. 

I use AqAdvisor a lot but like any tool it has its weak points. For one, (as you noted) you'll want to keep the stocking level well below 100% which can be a bit misleading. I've heard elsewhere that it tends to allow oversized fish in a tank if an overly large filter is selected (though those reports were from a few years ago, and might be fixed now). Like the outdated, debunked 'inch per gallon' rule it's possible to create overly optimistic situations, but it can be a really useful part of a multifaceted research approach. I like to use it to make a shopping list of fish to do deeper research on places like seriouslyfish. I also find it useful for catching parameter incompatibilities that can be hard to spot when considering multiple species options.

[josephnoctum]

On 4/6/2022 at 10:55 PM, drewzero1 said:

I like to use it to make a shopping list of fish to do deeper research on places like seriouslyfish.

I love seriouslyfish and check that one before any new species. Especially since they include reference to the actual scientific papers on the species.