Columnaris or something else? Mysterious white bump on rice fish

[dangerflower]

I have a group of juvenile medaka that I added to my 10 gallon shrimp tank about a month ago. There are a dozen of them in there, which is too many for the tank size, but they are still small, and I was planning on moving some of them to my outdoor mini pond after they grow a bit more. They've been doing great, active and eating and growing. The tank is just barely heated at 68-70 degrees, planted, ph usually around 7.6-7.8, kh 2-3 dkh, gh between 5-7 dgh, no ammonia or nitrite, and I've been having to dose extra easy green to keep my nitrate levels at around 10 for the plants. This tank is struggling in a lot of ways, lots of algae and it seems generally unbalanced, so I do wonder what bad stuff might be going on in this water. 

I was checking on the tank this afternoon and noticed a raised white bump on the head of one of the little rice fish. I had vaguely noticed a spot of white coloration on this fish before, but these babies are still growing so their colors have been changing, and quite a few of them have some mottled coloration, so I never thought twice about it... until today when I noticed this spot is definitely raised. 😕 The fish is active and eating well, although it bullies its tank mates quite a bit. No other fish are showing any signs of illness at the moment. 

I did my best to get some pictures but this fish is little and fast. 

Are there other diseases that can manifest like this, like maybe a fungal infection? I would love any input about what might be going on and what to do about it.  I've started researching how to treat columnaris and it does not seem like it's going to be easy with a planted tank and invertebrates 😫

 

[Fish Folk]

I have never had to deal with the long battle with columnaris outbreak. From photos online, I'd say you're right to be concerned.

Best plan is to quarantine. However, the other fish may bark out with it eventually too.

10 gal aquarium tanks are very affordable. If you know people in your community, there's almost always one available. Otherwise, Irene has a video on building one out of a plastic storage bin.

I'd buy a standard recommended antibiotic, and treat fully in two separate waves of doings as prescribed. Columnaris can persist very long,

Having said that, you will definitely spend more on medicine than your fish may warrant in some aquarist's view. It really is up to you how much investment you want to make.

[Colu]

Possible Columnaris the most effective treatment is a combination of kanaplex and jungal fungas clear fizz tabs containing nitrofurazone together following this treatment schedule using jungal fungas clear that of furan2 as it has been discontinued I would Qarantine your fish and treat as nitrofurazone isn't shrimp Safe 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Colu

[dangerflower]

@Colu, thank you for the medication info. Is there anything shrimp/snail safe that I can use to treat the whole tank? I'm thinking of moving my snails and dosing a plant safe amount of salt but I don't know how much that would actually help.

I have moved the fish to a quarantine tank with aquarium salt in the water. The only medications I have on hand right now are maracyn (1), general cure, and kanaplex. I'll check my lfs for the furan-2 or jungle fungus fizz tomorrow. I'd love to cure this fish if I can, but since it's not even fully grown I wonder what the odds of survival are 😕 My priority is definitely preventing an outbreak in the tank if I can, so I have to figure out what I can do.

[dangerflower]

Are there any other diseases that this could be? I can't find anything when I google it, but the fact that the area of discoloration is raised rather than flat, and th fact that columnaris likes warner temps and this tank is pretty cold, makes me wonder if it could be a different issue?

@Fish Folk that's a fair point about whether or not treatment is worth while in this case. I'm not sure what my options are if I don't try to treat the fish. Euthanasia? I do want to try to prevent the sickness from spreading in the tank if I can though, while also not wanting to jeopardize my shrimp.

[Fish Folk]

@dangerflower I think isolation in a QT tank with sponge or box filtration is best. You’ll need to take care to ensure it is properly cycled.

This might be fungus… but you’d normally see “fuzzy” growth.

Perhaps it is a cancerous growth. I have seen than several time before. Fish can go awhile before they succumb to it.

If you want to let it go without any treatment, you do risk losing fish and possibly contaminating your tank.

[Deep breath here] Everyone keeps fish differently, and thinks about their stock differently. I have about 17 tanks, and keep 200-500 fish. Between my oldest son and I, we’ve bred, raised and sold dozens of different species. So how I would view this scenario and care for it versus how someone else would is naturally different. My concern with fish illness is often conditioned by the level of risk involved — and what I know about the tank. Sometimes, I’ll spend 15x the value of a single fish on several rounds of medicine. But other times I’ll euthanize and buy more. A few fish I treat as “pets,” but many fish I think of as “stock.” Every aquarist is really unique in this regard. Cory once said, “nurses make great fish keepers.” This is true: they’re focused on preserving life, managing chemistry, etc. There are nurses on this forum who reflect that. But I am personally wired differently. I love seeing and helping fish multiply. Everything I enjoy in the hobby is about “making more of this!” As a result, I have many, many occasions where I cull fish, euthanize fish, occasionally even feed them to larger fish (think… culled guppies to larger cichlids), etc. For me, losing one fish in order to help save the life of more is often essential.

So bottom line, your decision is going to need to be yours to make. If you want to go all in on this one fish and treat as @Colu has helpfully outlined above, we’re with you here. But if you’d rather euthanize and dedicate your care to healthier fish, for my part, I understand, and will look forward to learning with your journey as you raise these other ones.

[Colu]

On 4/3/2022 at 4:58 AM, dangerflower said:

@Colu, thank you for the medication info. Is there anything shrimp/snail safe that I can use to treat the whole tank? I'm thinking of moving my snails and dosing a plant safe amount of salt but I don't know how much that would actually help.

I have moved the fish to a quarantine tank with aquarium salt in the water. The only medications I have on hand right now are maracyn (1), general cure, and kanaplex. I'll check my lfs for the furan-2 or jungle fungus fizz tomorrow. I'd love to cure this fish if I can, but since it's not even fully grown I wonder what the odds of survival are 😕 My priority is definitely preventing an outbreak in the tank if I can, so I have to figure out what I can do.

What I would do is start treating with kanaplex in food that shouldn't effect your shrimp also sera baktopur direct tables active ingredient is nifurpirinol broad spectrum antibiotic is shrimp Safe  if you can't Qarantine I wouldn't use nitrofurazone based medication as that can harm your shrimp just kanaplex in food if it is Columnaris the level of salt you would need to use would kill your plants 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Colu

[dangerflower]

On 4/3/2022 at 1:45 AM, Fish Folk said:

@dangerflower I think isolation in a QT tank with sponge or box filtration is best. You’ll need to take care to ensure it is properly cycled.

This might be fungus… but you’d normally see “fuzzy” growth.

Perhaps it is a cancerous growth. I have seen than several time before. Fish can go awhile before they succumb to it.

If you want to let it go without any treatment, you do risk losing fish and possibly contaminating your tank.

[Deep breath here] Everyone keeps fish differently, and thinks about their stock differently. I have about 17 tanks, and keep 200-500 fish. Between my oldest son and I, we’ve bred, raised and sold dozens of different species. So how I would view this scenario and care for it versus how someone else would is naturally different. My concern with fish illness is often conditioned by the level of risk involved — and what I know about the tank. Sometimes, I’ll spend 15x the value of a single fish on several rounds of medicine. But other times I’ll euthanize and buy more. A few fish I treat as “pets,” but many fish I think of as “stock.” Every aquarist is really unique in this regard. Cory once said, “nurses make great fish keepers.” This is true: they’re focused on preserving life, managing chemistry, etc. There are nurses on this forum who reflect that. But I am personally wired differently. I love seeing and helping fish multiply. Everything I enjoy in the hobby is about “making more of this!” As a result, I have many, many occasions where I cull fish, euthanize fish, occasionally even feed them to larger fish (think… culled guppies to larger cichlids), etc. For me, losing one fish in order to help save the life of more is often essential.

So bottom line, your decision is going to need to be yours to make. If you want to go all in on this one fish and treat as @Colu has helpfully outlined above, we’re with you here. But if you’d rather euthanize and dedicate your care to healthier fish, for my part, I understand, and will look forward to learning with your journey as you raise these other ones.

I appreciate your perspective and I think it's pragmatic. I definitely feel differently about this situation than I did when my betta was sick -- I love my rice fish as groups, but they're not fish you really form individual bonds with. And I am hoping to breed them, so culling for health makes sense. I figure I may as well attempt to cure this fish with the meds that I already have on hand at least.

Do you guys think it would be reasonable to wait and observe the rest of the fish for a few days before trying to treat the tank? I have the sick individual quarantined, and none of the others are currently showing any signs of illness. I know the columnaris bacteria is pretty much always present in aquariums and hits stressed individuals first, so is it possible that the others might be safe now that the sick fish has been removed?