New fish keeper that needs help

[Waynemagic64]

I've had a gold fish for a few years for my son when he started going to school. My daughter is now 4 and we decided to get her a betta tank. We got a Aqueon LED MiniBow 5 Gallon tank and got a betta. Fish we got a water heater and keep the temp around 78-80 degrees. We have artificial plant and the longest we've been able to keep a betta alive in the tank is 2 weeks. I've used test strips and the only area that I'm close to being out of ideal ranges is PH around 7.5. Does this filter have too much flow? Just wondering on some tips to help me out.

[Fish Folk]

Is your tank cycled? How are your Ammonia / Nitrite / Nitrate?

 

[Jawjagrrl]

I got the 2.5 gallon minibow for my office space years ago and had the same problem. I tried a betta twice and neither lasted more than a week. Meanwhile cardinal tetras I had in there lived to be 3 years old in my care, so I knew it wasn't water parameters.

I think it was the flow - just too much for the size tank. Might be your issue as well. I bought a fluval prefilter sponge and glued it to the filter intake. I also added some xtra filter floss into the media compartment. Everything I've tried in that tiny tank since has thrived, even delicate shrimplets. The sponge is good biological filtration too, I often see shrimp foraging on it. Might be worth a try for your 5gal too.

Barring that, you could always ditch the filter it comes with and use the smallest sponge filter/nano air pump from the Coop instead.

[Waynemagic64]

I used the 7 in 1 test strips and GH, NO2, NO3, CL2, KH and PH are tested. The only one that's close to outside of parameters is the PH at like 7.5. The GH is close to the 0 area as well. We've had the tank for like a month with artificial plants. I believe the tank is cycled not exactly sure. I have done partial water changes to clean up debris.

I did try 4 neon tetras in the tank with this latest betta cuz I saw they were good tank mates for bettas on some online videos. The kids enjoyed them but I'm pretty sure the betta killed them overnight...

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

@Fish Folkwas right to ask those questions = when you say 

On 4/1/2022 at 12:53 PM, Waynemagic64 said:

I believe the tank is cycled not exactly sure.

Did you see ammonia, then nitrite then nitrate on the strips then saw them go to 0 or was there another marker you used for the nitrogen cycle. 

It is hard for me to picture this filter - is it an overflow type as it looks like the return pump pulls water up the tube then drops it on top of the media and then it overflows into the tank - is that on one side or multiple sides? Was the betta able to rest somewhere like did they have a favorite spot to lay? Were they ever just leaning on the plastic plants and seemed to be resting? Were they able to explore the tank - swim freely and not look like they were battling flow/current? @Jawjagrrlhas some great suggestions for filter modifications. If there is just one outflow then you can baffle it - make a ramp or speed bump for the water to go over to slow it down. My favorite is a plastic drinks bottle cut the top and bottom off and secure it using cryoacrylate gel super glue. 

The size 5-20 g is pretty ideal for a Betta. I have a Petco betta - a giant alien hybrid named DJ Turbo by my boys (we had just watched the movie Turbo) and he struggled with his health initially. I ended up treating him with meds - melafix, erythromycin, paracleanse and ich-x, salt baths and a whole bunch of other things. He doesn't see well as he had popeye and I managed to treat it and get the popeye to go away but I think it scarred his eyes. In the end, would have been cheaper to source a betta from a respectable online seller or just have gone to my local fish store but as a parent we both know what happens when the kids say "I want that one!" So to start know that these fish have been through a lot - placed in plastic cups and then put on a ship and sent to the US from Indonesia, Vietnam, Southern China etc. 

Care and feeding - how much water were you changing? how much were you feeding and which foods? you mentioned neon tetras with one of the bettas - did they always have tank mates?

[Torrey]

On 4/1/2022 at 1:53 PM, Waynemagic64 said:

I used the 7 in 1 test strips and GH, NO2, NO3, CL2, KH and PH are tested. The only one that's close to outside of parameters is the PH at like 7.5. The GH is close to the 0 area as well. We've had the tank for like a month with artificial plants. I believe the tank is cycled not exactly sure. I have done partial water changes to clean up debris.

I did try 4 neon tetras in the tank with this latest betta cuz I saw they were good tank mates for bettas on some online videos. The kids enjoyed them but I'm pretty sure the betta killed them overnight...

I have not known anyone to have success with this tank and a betta, with the exception of one person who had a plakat that loved "surfing"

Even baffling as @Jawjagrrl recommended resulted in either lowering the flow to the point the filter was no longer effective (they resorted to a Co-Op sponge filter, and then moved betta and seeded filter to a new tank), bettas kept dying, or people baought a new tank for the betta and used a sponge filter, and put different nano fish in the Aqueon Bow.

Live plants, and a submersible Aqueon white led light will greatly improve water quality in the tank, so you can put a small school of nano fish in. I'm sorrry you are struggling, please don't give up!

My 2.5 gallon Aqueon corner tank also had too much flow for the betta, it's perfect as a male endler tank though.

[Jawjagrrl]

On 4/1/2022 at 8:27 PM, Torrey said:

I have not known anyone to have success with this tank and a betta, with the exception of one person who had a plakat that loved "surfing"

Even baffling as @Jawjagrrl recommended resulted in either lowering the flow to the point the filter was no longer effective (they resorted to a Co-Op sponge filter, and then moved betta and seeded filter to a new tank), bettas kept dying, or people baought a new tank for the betta and used a sponge filter, and put different nano fish in the Aqueon Bow.

Live plants, and a submersible Aqueon white led light will greatly improve water quality in the tank, so you can put a small school of nano fish in. I'm sorrry you are struggling, please don't give up!

My 2.5 gallon Aqueon corner tank also had too much flow for the betta, it's perfect as a male endler tank though.

It was amazing how much I had to throttle that filter down. Have to say that the Marineland portrait 5gals I have got it right - I turbo'd the filtration a bit, probably didn't even need to.

[Edsland]

I would  think ammonia killed you neon overnight same with you Beta. You need to cycle your tank to get bacteria growth to zero your ammonia and nitrates. Test strips aren't very accurate. Before you add anymore fish read up on cycling tank with ammonia. Once thats done you can keep fish. 

[Waynemagic64]

I bought an ammonia test kit and it wasn't high at all. It tested yellow the lowest level. I got my fish from my local petco. I live in MN and they said I should set my heater to 72-76. My water tested fine all the way around. Now I just got 3 lil zebra danios in the tank now. We'll see if I can keep these alive.

[Jawjagrrl]

On 4/7/2022 at 2:46 PM, Waynemagic64 said:

I bought an ammonia test kit and it wasn't high at all. It tested yellow the lowest level. I got my fish from my local petco. I live in MN and they said I should set my heater to 72-76. My water tested fine all the way around. Now I just got 3 lil zebra danios in the tank now. We'll see if I can keep these alive.

That really makes me think it's the strong filter for the size tank they pair it with. The danios are active fish tat love flow, so they should enjoy it. Hope all goes well with them!

[Torrey]

On 4/7/2022 at 12:46 PM, Waynemagic64 said:

I bought an ammonia test kit and it wasn't high at all. It tested yellow the lowest level. I got my fish from my local petco. I live in MN and they said I should set my heater to 72-76. My water tested fine all the way around. Now I just got 3 lil zebra danios in the tank now. We'll see if I can keep these alive.

The zebra danios will eventually get to big for the Aqueon (they live longer and happier in groups of 6+ and need room to swim... or strong current like your filter so they *feel* like they are swimming for miles), the strong flow will help them enjoy the tank for as long as possible, however. Zebra danio are great little fish, and if you decide to get them a larger tank later (20 longs are good) are amazing to watch in larger schools. We have a dozen going into a 4' tank this weekend, and then I'm looking for the next fish to go in quarantine, thanks to Brandon's great video with Jimmy, my spouse and I agree on the next purchase.

 

[Waynemagic64]

After 4-6 days I woke up and 2 of the 3 were dead and the other was at the top like it was gasping at the top of the surface. Tested the water and the parameters looked good again. Only thing I could come up with is that they were oxygen deprived somehow. I added a sponge filter, changed about 50% of the water to try and save the last fish but with no avail. Starting to get a little frustrated here. Any tips? The built in filter should have been fine for circulating the water for oxygen right? I'm running out of ideas to keep these fish alive. Should I clean out the tank completely and start over?

[Torrey]

On 4/13/2022 at 12:40 PM, Waynemagic64 said:

After 4-6 days I woke up and 2 of the 3 were dead and the other was at the top like it was gasping at the top of the surface. Tested the water and the parameters looked good again. Only thing I could come up with is that they were oxygen deprived somehow. I added a sponge filter, changed about 50% of the water to try and save the last fish but with no avail. Starting to get a little frustrated here. Any tips? The built in filter should have been fine for circulating the water for oxygen right? I'm running out of ideas to keep these fish alive. Should I clean out the tank completely and start over?

I wouldn't start the tank over, because it will rest everything at the beginning.

I revamped my 2.5 gallon corner tank in February, it still isn't ready for any more livestock than snails.

I have had some sort of enclosed water since 1972, and to be 100% honest, pico tanks have been the hardest to get stable and to keep stable. I would recommend go planted with the little tank, and once you have some algae growth and a seasoned tank (2 to 6 months, minimum) get a snail you like.

For fish, I would recommend looking at a 10 gallon, or a 20 long.

More water gives you more flexibility. Instead of ammonia hitting lethal levels 12 to 24 hours after the fish are a little overfed, as long as the tank is lightly stocked (and not stocked at all until it is seasoned) you will have a good buffer for any learning bumps in your aquarium journey.

Plus, if you do a nice scape on your Aqueon Bow, you will have **plenty** of plants from trims for your larger tank.

Is there anywhere in your apartment/house where you can set up a larger tank? A 75 gallon barely takes up a little more depth than a 55 gallon (like 6" deeper) and is (in my opinion) the easiest beginner tank to start with:

1. The number of gallons make the water parameters more stable

2. Adding a dozen zebra danios to a 75 gallon tank is barely going to raise nitrates from waste, especially if the tank has properly gone through the nitrogen cycle

3. Larger tanks are easier to keep balanced once the cycle has been completed and adding a new school of 6 to 12 fish every other month after they finish quarantine will easily allow the beneficial bacteria to catch up... especially if the tank is planted.

If a larger tank is not an option, I would buy the submersible Aqueon White LED light you see in my video above, or the nano light from the Co-op (or somewhere similar) and focus on plants for a few months. Once the plants are successful, the tank will be ready for some fish (white clouds, or a half dozen male endlers, or some other nano-fish). Quarantine the fish so you don't need to risk killing your cycle in your Aqueon. I would send my tap water off for a professional set of tests, to find out if there's iron, calcium, copper or lead in my water supply that harmed my fish, as well.

I would add a snail to the tank before I added any fish, and see how the snail does for a month before adding any nano fish as well. There are also other options for small tanks, if you decide the fish are not your cup of tea. Again, water quality and water stability (in other words, test daily or every 48 hours and keep the data in a spread sheet for best results, for at least first few weeks, and then test weekly once you have seen the ammonia spike, followed by lowering ammonia and a nitrite spike, followed a couple of weeks later by climbing nitrates and ammonia and nitrites stay at 0 ppm). Once you have achieved stability, any of these recommendations from Cory are good to go.

 

I kept my Back to the Roots tank with just plants for an entire year before I added animals.

 

[Ken Burke]

I know a lot of people like 2.5 gal tanks.  But that’s a tiny bit of water, and I’ve always struggled with tanks smaller than 10 gallons.   Much better size, more forgiving.

On 4/1/2022 at 2:53 PM, Waynemagic64 said:

I used the 7 in 1 test strips and GH, NO2, NO3, CL2, KH and PH are tested. The only one that's close to outside of parameters is the PH at like 7.5. The GH is close to the 0 area as well. We've had the tank for like a month with artificial plants. I believe the tank is cycled not exactly sure. I have done partial water changes to clean up debris.

I did try 4 neon tetras in the tank with this latest betta cuz I saw they were good tank mates for bettas on some online videos. The kids enjoyed them but I'm pretty sure the betta killed them overnight...

Neon tetras are great, can be tricky to get established.  Often they arrive at the store under nourished, and in pretty rough shape.  These fish are among the cheapest in the store, so the farms just don’t have the margin to fatten them up before shipping.  So The betta may not be the culprit.  
 

 

On 4/13/2022 at 6:57 PM, Torrey said:

I wouldn't start the tank over, because it will rest everything at the beginning.

I revamped my 2.5 gallon corner tank in February, it still isn't ready for any more livestock than snails.

I have had some sort of enclosed water since 1972, and to be 100% honest, pico tanks have been the hardest to get stable and to keep stable. I would recommend go planted with the little tank, and once you have some algae growth and a seasoned tank (2 to 6 months, minimum) get a snail you like.

For fish, I would recommend looking at a 10 gallon, or a 20 long.

More water gives you more flexibility. Instead of ammonia hitting lethal levels 12 to 24 hours after the fish are a little overfed, as long as the tank is lightly stocked (and not stocked at all until it is seasoned) you will have a good buffer for any learning bumps in your aquarium journey.

Plus, if you do a nice scape on your Aqueon Bow, you will have **plenty** of plants from trims for your larger tank.

Is there anywhere in your apartment/house where you can set up a larger tank? A 75 gallon barely takes up a little more depth than a 55 gallon (like 6" deeper) and is (in my opinion) the easiest beginner tank to start with:

1. The number of gallons make the water parameters more stable

2. Adding a dozen zebra danios to a 75 gallon tank is barely going to raise nitrates from waste, especially if the tank has properly gone through the nitrogen cycle

3. Larger tanks are easier to keep balanced once the cycle has been completed and adding a new school of 6 to 12 fish every other month after they finish quarantine will easily allow the beneficial bacteria to catch up... especially if the tank is planted.

If a larger tank is not an option, I would buy the submersible Aqueon White LED light you see in my video above, or the nano light from the Co-op (or somewhere similar) and focus on plants for a few months. Once the plants are successful, the tank will be ready for some fish (white clouds, or a half dozen male endlers, or some other nano-fish). Quarantine the fish so you don't need to risk killing your cycle in your Aqueon. I would send my tap water off for a professional set of tests, to find out if there's iron, calcium, copper or lead in my water supply that harmed my fish, as well.

I would add a snail to the tank before I added any fish, and see how the snail does for a month before adding any nano fish as well. There are also other options for small tanks, if you decide the fish are not your cup of tea. Again, water quality and water stability (in other words, test daily or every 48 hours and keep the data in a spread sheet for best results, for at least first few weeks, and then test weekly once you have seen the ammonia spike, followed by lowering ammonia and a nitrite spike, followed a couple of weeks later by climbing nitrates and ammonia and nitrites stay at 0 ppm). Once you have achieved stability, any of these recommendations from Cory are good to go.

 

I kept my Back to the Roots tank with just plants for an entire year before I added animals.

 

Sage advice.  

[Colu]

I think you would be better having shrimp or snails in 2.5 gallon tank long term  

[Jawjagrrl]

Once you're positive that the tank did cycle fully - ammonia and nitrites register, then disappear - then you could try nano fish again, but I'd consider snails first. 

This is my 2.5 mini bow which has been running this time since August 21. Full of live plants, wood and a very seasoned filter and substrate. There are 3 Male endlers (a good first option, they are hardy and stay small), a growing colony of shrimp (probably 50 right now) and countless bladder snails and scuds. So many scuds I am considering moving the shrimp out and my scud loving betta in. As I mentioned I added a pre filter sponge to the filter intake  to slow the flow rate by half. 

I had the shrimp and snails for a few months before adding the endlers - I was able to jump start a cycle with another tank but it was still a few weeks. 

These tiny tanks have a lot of appeal because they are easier to deal with for water changes, decorating, etc. But much harder to keep up with than established big tanks. I expect my 5s and this one and the 1.75gal jar will still require more maintenance than my 55 or 75s.

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/1/2022 at 8:43 AM, Waynemagic64 said:

We got a Aqueon LED MiniBow 5 Gallon tank and got a betta. Fish we got a water heater and keep the temp around 78-80 degrees. We have artificial plant and the longest we've been able to keep a betta alive in the tank is 2 weeks. I've used test strips and the only area that I'm close to being out of ideal ranges is PH around 7.5. Does this filter have too much flow? Just wondering on some tips to help me out.

One thing I ended up doing for my stepbrother was stuffing the filter itself with sponge and some bio media.  If you could, please take a picture of the filter compartment itself and your setup.  This also helps to calm down the flow a bit (especially with a pre-filter sponge).

Fish gasping at the top points toward a cycle issue.  So let's just take a step back and cycle the tank for a good amount of time before we do anything in regards to adding some fish.  You have food, so add a small pinch daily, record down the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate levels if you could.  Showing us those gives us a good idea where you're at now.

I was watching this one this morning, might be a great place to start in terms of understanding where you're at.

Second to that, I would highly recommend buying some anubias and easy green for the tank.  It's beneficial for the fish, but it's also great for the kids to see real plants and feel that success!  One of the best parts of the hobby for me is getting that anubias to grow no matter what else I do, and even get it to flower.

I would encourage you and anyone invested in the tank to just take a step back, reset mentally, and focus on getting the parameters right before getting more fish.

That being said..... I've seen a few posts about people with issues with bettas and the first thing I ask is where was the betta purchased?  Was it from a cup on a shelf in a big box store, a local shop?  What was the situation like for the fish before you added it to the tank.  A good tip too, test the water in the cup or container itself to get an idea of hardness and other parameters.  If the fish is sensitive to swings it might be a good idea to do a very slow acclimation method.

Edit: watching this tonight, pretty great summary of so many things that all revolve one simple bit of advice

 

Edited April 24, 2022 by nabokovfan87