Entry #3 - New Fish!

[Jawjagrrl]

On 3/31/2022 at 12:58 PM, H.K.Luterman said:

It'd have to be right away, I think. I've done this by purchasing plants (with duckweed on them) from a Pet Supplies Plus that is just around the corner from my house. I don't actually know if it helped, but it SEEMED to make the nitrite spike phase go faster. Just anecdotal evidence, I suppose. But I have heard others recommending doing similar things - buying rocks or ornaments from petstore tanks to try to get the bacteria. More plants certainly won't hurt, at any rate!

Also that's how I got my duckweed infestation. 😉

I literally had ONE tiny leaf of something (you KNOW it was duckweed) on the very first plant order I did last summer (I hadn't even found Cory's channel yet), which also came with bladder snail eggs and a *single* scud. Ask me how many of all I have in my tanks now 😜 I do move duckweed from tank to tank and it does seem to speed things along. I've got some nice red root floaters coming next week, so I hope to soon have just those and no duckweed - although the chickens do love it!

Edited March 31, 2022 by Jawjagrrl

[Katie B.]

On 3/31/2022 at 11:15 AM, Odd Duck said:

You are correct, I’m pretty sure the main tank is fishless now.  I’m pretty certain she is talking about 2 different tanks.  Her 29 G is fishless at this stage.  She has the new fish in a QT tank.  Please correct me if I’m wrong @Katie B..

I only mentioned it to clarify since it wasn’t obvious to me and I had to go back and re-read sections to find that info.  I wanted it to be clear to anyone catching up on the posts without them having to back track and re-read the thread.

The 29-gallon is planted and fish-less. My quarantine tank is a 10 gallon with no plants and medicated. 
 

Can I do the shrimp method with live plants? And the idea is that it speeds up BB growth?

On 3/31/2022 at 12:04 PM, Jawjagrrl said:

I literally had ONE tiny leaf of something (you KNOW it was duckweed) on the very first plant order I did last summer (I hadn't even found Cory's channel yet), which also came with bladder snail eggs and a *single* scud. Ask me how many of all I have in my tanks now 😜 I do move duckweed from tank to tank and it does seem to speed things along. I've got some nice red root floaters coming next week, so I hope to soon have just those and no duckweed - although the chickens do love it!

I’d like to know how your red floaters do. I had to toss all mine for dying off 😔

[Odd Duck]

I’ve never used the shrimp method but I’ve been hearing about it since 1975 when I first started keeping fish.  I don’t like eating shrimp well enough to buy a whole container so I just use fish food.  The idea is to rot (bacteria eating the food) and produce enough ammonia to trigger growth of the beneficial bacteria we need to deal with the ammonia then nitrites.  I’m pretty sure you can use the shrimp with plants, but if ammonia gets crazy high it can slow growth of the BB’s and damage plants.  It has to really get high for that to happen but I don’t remember the numbers off the top of my head since I don’t start this way.  I don’t know how high the shrimp would take it.  Likely depends on the size of the shrimp, size of the tank, what kind of plants, how many plants, etc.

[Jawjagrrl]

On 3/31/2022 at 1:06 PM, Katie B. said:

The 29-gallon is planted and fish-less. My quarantine tank is a 10 gallon with no plants and medicated. 
 

Can I do the shrimp method with live plants? And the idea is that it speeds up BB growth?

I’d like to know how your red floaters do. I had to toss all mine for dying off 😔

I'm thinking that if you've already got ammonia and nitrite readings, you're past the point where it would be helpful since it's the decay of the shrimp that triggers ammonia that you already have. I don't think you're far off from being ready. 

I can grow duckweed and most of my aquarium plants like mad (thank you easy green and aftermarket lighting!), so hopeful that it does well. Only coming from a state away that is also unlikely to freeze again, so fingers crossed. Ready for a floater upgrade!

[jwcarlson]

On 3/31/2022 at 12:30 PM, Jawjagrrl said:

I can grow duckweed and most of my aquarium plants like mad (thank you easy green and aftermarket lighting!), so hopeful that it does well. Only coming from a state away that is also unlikely to freeze again, so fingers crossed. Ready for a floater upgrade!

I just got some red root floaters from California shipped to Iowa and they were in good shape (been below freezing at night still).  No insulation or heat pack, just a plastic cup and a cardboard box.  I really like how they look.  I had some floaters shipped awhile back.  A sampler of like 4 or 5 types.  All but the duckweed died, which I was going to pitch.  I shipped from Texas and went and sat in Los Angeles for a week before coming over to Iowa.  The duck weed has multiplied by something like 2000x.  I actually like it, though I am not sure I will like it long term.  Going to start putting it in the chickens' water.  The red root floaters I got in are really cool, some of them had 6" roots on them.

[Patrick_G]

On 3/31/2022 at 7:20 AM, Katie B. said:

So, my hangup is that Cory said when you see growth that you can slowly start adding fish. I see lots of growth but still high ammonia and nitrite levels so am I right to avoid adding even hardy fish until those are down??

Congratulations on the new fish! Mystery snails are so cool, and I’m sure your son will love watching them! 

The way I interpret Cory’s video on “seasoning” a tank is that it’s something that is desirable in addition to a cycled tank, not in lieu of a cycled tank. 
I’d wait until toxins drop to zero before adding fish. You said that you have a Betta. If that tank is cycled you could add some substrate or filter media from that tank to help jump start the new one. The 10 plants you have on order will help too. They’ll bring in some beneficial bacteria and help use up toxins. Cory has said that the rockwool they are potted in is a good source of beneficial bacteria so make sure to add that to the tank while it’s cycling. 

[Torrey]

On 3/31/2022 at 8:20 AM, Katie B. said:

I appreciate your feedback! I have watched Irene's and Cory's videos on cycling but I haven't seen the others you mentioned so I will look into them! 😃 (over the past month I have never done so much youtubing in my life and now I am members of 3 channels and can't stop researching all the things 😆)

So, my hangup is that Cory said when you see growth that you can slowly start adding fish. I see lots of growth but still high ammonia and nitrite levels so am I right to avoid adding even hardy fish until those are down??

I know I would love to go, and would probably make it happen, if I wasn't due to have a baby at the end of July 😆

Congratulations!!!!

 

May your pregnancy be easy, your labor be gentle, and delivery be orgasmic! (The Blessing I give all my birthing clients ❤️ )

Having multiple tank syndrome along with newborns, I recommend a very boring approach (to many people):

Start with getting plants going well, and some so-called "pest snails" like Malaysian, ramshorn, or even bladder or pond snails.

Wait until after baby and you have established a solid chestfeeding/sleeping/ surviving each day schedule.

Post-partum hormonal swings are real, and if you and baby need to spend a few days in bed together (recuperation, allergies, growth spurts...etc) your baby's mental health will be much more solid if you are not worried about needing to feed fish or do a water cahnge.

The difference in approach feels small when discussed beforehand... it is huge when the reality hits. Many of my clients have given me feedback that waiting to add fish definitely saved their sanity.

"So, my hangup is that Cory said when you see growth that you can slowly start adding fish. I see lots of growth but still high ammonia and nitrite levels so am I right to avoid adding even hardy fish until those are down??" 

Cory's video that I remember, asks about waiting for a *seasoned* aquarium. New aquariums will have new growth in the beginning, that can llok great. A seasoned aquarium approach involves allowing plants to grow, die/melt back, and then new growth (typically ~ 6 month process) for people looking for established, stable aquariums. I personally don't add fish until my tanks test no nitrites & no ammonia for a month, and I have been "ghostfeeding" as if my fish are already in the tank for a couple of months. I use either older food, or what ever fish food I have on hand, powdered or liquified to ghost feed.

 

Again, congratulations on your soon to be new arrival! 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

@Katie B.you've gotten great information. I agree with @Patrick_G and @Torreyonce the tank has made it's way through the nitrogen cycle it has done just that. It does not mean you have established a full biome. This is where the idea of a seasoned aquarium comes in. After it has run for 6 months to 1 year it will have an easier time bouncing back from the little insults that come along like needing to medicate the tank or changes in municipal water etc. Once a full ecosystem has been created it is harder to kill it all off and you will worry less about a crash which to a first time aquarium keeper is a huge worry. You also then have a source of good biomedia to jumpstart new setups and as you stock and introduce new critters it will be easier on them as they will have more of what they need. 

Congratulations on your new fish and introduction to the hobby. Glad you found the forum. 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Beardedbillygoat1975
attribution

[Jawjagrrl]

On 3/31/2022 at 3:16 PM, jwcarlson said:

The duck weed has multiplied by something like 2000x.  I actually like it, though I am not sure I will like it long term.  

I thought I had a single type of duckweed in the beginning, and that some was just growing larger than others. I think I really have a common tiny leaf type (multiplies like crazy) and a larger giant duckweed that looks a lot more like salvinia that multiplies a bit more slowly. I've tried to eradicate the tiny version to no avail, but I haven't gone full nuclear on it...yet. I may when the red floaters arrive though. You've got me more excited now! But my tanks with lots of duckweed (I pull a good cup of them out of 4 nano tanks every week or two) register next to no nitrates, even with easy green added - and the other plants are doing well too. It has it's place - but my chickens enjoy it also, along with excess bladder snails 🙂

[Katie B.]

I added an update to the bottom of my initial post. Can y'all check it out??? I'm freaking out 😥 

[Patrick_G]

@Jawjagrrl, it might be water lettuce, it looks a lot like duck weed when it’s small. 

On 3/31/2022 at 2:50 PM, Katie B. said:

I added an update to the bottom of my initial post. Can y'all check it out??? I'm freaking out 😥 

What are your water parameters? 

[Katie B.]

On 3/31/2022 at 4:50 PM, Patrick_G said:

@Jawjagrrl, it might be water lettuce, it looks a lot like duck weed when it’s small. 

What are your water parameters? 

Temp - 79 degrees

Ammonia - 0

Nitrites - 0

Nitrates - 0

Hardness - 150

Buffer - 40

Chlorine - 0

pH - between 6.8-7.2

Edited March 31, 2022 by Katie B.

[jwcarlson]

On 3/30/2022 at 7:41 PM, Katie B. said:

I poked them and they frantically swam back to the bottom and acted normal for a few minutes before they sam their way back to the top. I read that they can play "dead" if they are stressed or feel threatened... I know meds can stress fish so am I correct in placing my blame on the meds? Do you think they will be Ok 😥

Maybe it's somewhere else... I know corys can breathe from the surface, but do you have an air stone or sponge filter in?  Also, you're showing chlorine, did you use dechlorinator?

Edited March 31, 2022 by jwcarlson

[Katie B.]

On 3/31/2022 at 5:15 PM, jwcarlson said:

Maybe it's somewhere else... I know corys can breathe from the surface, but do you have an air stone?  Also, you're showing chlorine, did you use dechlorinator?

It’s not chlorine, it’s color from the itch-x. 
Sorry, Chlorine was 0 that was a copy-paste error. 

[Patrick_G]

@Colu, any thoughts? 

[Colu]

On 3/31/2022 at 1:41 AM, Katie B. said:

Because of the prices and overall welfare of the fish in my city I decided to order my first additions from AquaHuna 🙂

I was SO impressed with their communication with me and the adjustments (two ivory mystery snails rather than golden) made for me before shipment. My 6 albino corydoras and 2 mystery snails were shipped Monday(3/28) and arrived TODAY (3/30) 😃

Below is a video of my, way over excitement, introduction of the fish to their quarantine tank 😜

So, the little guys will stay in the tank for 24 hrs to become acclimated to the new water parameters and then I will apply the med trio once, wait two weeks, and then insert them in my 29-gallon.

I will put the snails in the tank sooner, but I need to maintain "0" ammonia and nitrites for 24 hours first. I just got in Fritz Zyme from Aquarium Co-Op and applied it to the 29-gallon.

My 10 new plants arrive tomorrow, which I am thrilled about! This is all so new and experimental for me but I am currently enjoying the ride (except for maybe the patience part 😆) and my family still loves me despite my new obsession/hobby ☺️ 

Entry #3 Summary

• Corydoras & snails arrived today from AquaHuna
• Acclimation seems to be going well, will quarantine for two weeks
• 29-gallon still has 0.5 ammonia and 5 nitrite readings 😡
• New plants arrive tomorrow 

Questions I Have

1. What do your mystery snails prefer to eat, and if you blanch foods can you tell me how...
2. If you have any other recommendations for "cycling" my 29-gallon please share. Keep in mind that I am new to the hobby so I do not have other cycled filters or media.

 

UPDATE ::

My plants arrived and I have them placed in my 29-gallon now! Below are pictures of the plants and their placement around the ones I already had in my tank.

 

Also, what in blue blazes is happening here!! 😧 

All the critters were doing fine and then I applied the med trio around 10:00 AM and come 3:30 PM they scare me half to death by pretending to be dead themselves!

I poked them and they frantically swam back to the bottom and acted normal for a few minutes before they sam their way back to the top. I read that they can play "dead" if they are stressed or feel threatened... I know meds can stress fish so am I correct in placing my blame on the meds? Do you think they will be Ok 😥

What I would do is a water change to remove the medication straight away  and monitor them for a couple of days if they go back to normal then you could try treating one medication at a time as medication can be stressful of fish after going through shipping and stress. To be exposed to 3 different medication at once can push some fish over the edge

[freemoney]

On 3/31/2022 at 1:06 PM, Katie B. said:

The 29-gallon is planted and fish-less. My quarantine tank is a 10 gallon with no plants and medicated. 
 

Can I do the shrimp method with live plants? And the idea is that it speeds up BB growth?

I’d like to know how your red floaters do. I had to toss all mine for dying off 😔

 

On 3/31/2022 at 6:02 PM, Katie B. said:

Temp - 79 degrees

Ammonia - 0

Nitrites - 0

Nitrates - 0

Hardness - 150

Buffer - 40

Chlorine - 0

pH - between 6.8-7.2

I'm no expert but I understand cooler tank temps help oxygen uptake. I had issues with a recently purchased oto. Completely different situation, adding him to established tank. I added a sponge filter and lowered tank temp slowly from 79 to 75. It seemed to help. 

[Katie B.]

On 3/31/2022 at 5:33 PM, Colu said:

What I would do is a water change to remove the medication straight away  and monitor them for a couple of days if they go back to normal then you could try treating one medication at a time as medication can be stressful of fish after going through shipping and stress. To be exposed to 3 different medication at once can push some fish over the edge

Will do! Thanks so much!

[Katie B.]

Changed 50% water, 1 death, changed 75% water, waiting… 

Feeling bad that I killed the fish by treating it. Half the people I talked with said they preventively treat their new fish while the other half didn’t. Learning from experience I suppose. 

[Odd Duck]

Add aeration!  Even if it’s just a line with no air stone but an air stone would be better.  Any time you have fish hanging at the top that wouldn’t normally do that, or breathing fast especially breathing fast at the surface, always add aeration as fast as you can.  I would also add activated charcoal (carbon) if you have it.  Plan on another 50% water change in the morning.

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

There’s no hard and fast rules on when to treat with the med trio. I don’t think you did anything wrong. On one of the meds maybe the Ich-X it recommends supplemental oxygen and some of us have been doing it so long we just do it like on autopilot and so it’s not always mentioned. Hang in there. I’d keep your water changes to 25-50%. If you want you can put your next 5 gallons in a bucket, treat with dechlorinator and put an airstone in and “age” the water for a few hours or overnight. Sometimes this helps. A little salt like 1 tbsp per 5 gallons can also help, the change in the osmotic pressure seems to calm them down a bit. Keep temps under 78 the hotter it is the less dissolved O2. Let us know how we can help! 

[Katie B.]

On 4/1/2022 at 2:58 AM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

There’s no hard and fast rules on when to treat with the med trio. I don’t think you did anything wrong. On one of the meds maybe the Ich-X it recommends supplemental oxygen and some of us have been doing it so long we just do it like on autopilot and so it’s not always mentioned. Hang in there. I’d keep your water changes to 25-50%. If you want you can put your next 5 gallons in a bucket, treat with dechlorinator and put an airstone in and “age” the water for a few hours or overnight. Sometimes this helps. A little salt like 1 tbsp per 5 gallons can also help, the change in the osmotic pressure seems to calm them down a bit. Keep temps under 78 the hotter it is the less dissolved O2. Let us know how we can help! 

Thank you all for your support. Woke up with no deaths, although one was still on its side at the top. I did a 50% change just now. I have a sponge filter in the 10-gallon quarantine tank. I have two other tanks (a 29- and 5- gallon) which are both running sponge filters but I don’t have any other air pumps for an airstone. I could go out and get another today. 
Will aquarium salt stress them out??

[Colu]

On 4/1/2022 at 2:00 PM, Katie B. said:

Will aquarium salt stress them out?

You could add a small amount of aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 5 gallons that will aid Gill function and add essential electrolytes 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

I’d get another air setup for this group. That’s a fair investment youve made and it’s always good to have extra air pumps and stones around.

[Odd Duck]

On 4/1/2022 at 8:00 AM, Katie B. said:

Thank you all for your support. Woke up with no deaths, although one was still on its side at the top. I did a 50% change just now. I have a sponge filter in the 10-gallon quarantine tank. I have two other tanks (a 29- and 5- gallon) which are both running sponge filters but I don’t have any other air pumps for an airstone. I could go out and get another today. 
Will aquarium salt stress them out??

Do you have a T or Y fitting so you could split and add another air stone?